Shimmed Pockets?

CaptainJR

CaptainJR

Shiver me timbers.
Silver Member
When I got my Brunswick two years ago I told them I wanted it to have standard pockets. When I get it recovered I think I'm going to have if shimmed a little bit. What I'm reading in the Holiday Invitational thread is that everyone posting there has there pockets shimmed a LOT. Here are the BCA standards.


POCKET OPENINGS & MEASUREMENTS (Cloth covered rails):
Pocket openings are measured from tip to tip of the opposing cushion noses where direction changes into the pocket. This is called the mouth.

Corner Pocket: Mouth Between 4 7/8" minimum to 5 1/8" maximum

Side Pocket: Mouth Between 5 3/8" minimum to 5 5/8" maximum

The angle at the corner pocket entrance on each side of the pocket is 142o (±1o).

The angle at the side pocket entrance on each side of the pocket is 103o (± 2o).

Vertical Pocket Angle: 12o minimum to 15o maxim

Shelf: The shelf is measured from the center of the imaginary line that goes from one side of the mouth to the other where the nose of the cushion changes direction to the center of the vertical cut of the slate pocket radius.
Corner Pocket:
1 5/8" minimum to 1 7/8" maximum
Side Pocket: 0" minimum to 3/8" maximum

Drop Point Slate Radius: The pocket radius measured from the vertical cut of the slate to the playing surface.

Drop Point Slate Radius 1/8" radius min. to 1/4" radius max.



What do you all think the right shimmed size is if you want it to help you be more accurate, but you still want to be able to practice cheating the pocket?

Just so we know what we are talking about, do notice the first sentence in the BCA standards that says where to measure.
 
Making your table "double shimmed" should yield close to 4 1/2" corner pockets (1/4" shims on the end of each rail rubber). Two balls will barely pass or will jam depending on how precisely the table was to 5" corners to start. You may notice a "thud" when a ball hits the extra shim. I wouldn't go any tighter using shims.
The truely "correct" way is to lengthen the rubber, but this requires also lengthening the wood behind the rubber and replacing all the rail rubber. Not a cost productive way to simply have tighter pockets unless you really want them tight and 100% correct.

Troy
CaptainJR said:
When I got my Brunswick two years ago I told them I wanted it to have standard pockets. When I get it recovered I think I'm going to have if shimmed a little bit. What I'm reading in the Holiday Invitational thread is that everyone posting there has there pockets shimmed a LOT. Here are the BCA standards.


POCKET OPENINGS & MEASUREMENTS (Cloth covered rails):
Pocket openings are measured from tip to tip of the opposing cushion noses where direction changes into the pocket. This is called the mouth.

Corner Pocket: Mouth Between 4 7/8" minimum to 5 1/8" maximum

Side Pocket: Mouth Between 5 3/8" minimum to 5 5/8" maximum

The angle at the corner pocket entrance on each side of the pocket is 142o (±1o).

The angle at the side pocket entrance on each side of the pocket is 103o (± 2o).

Vertical Pocket Angle: 12o minimum to 15o maxim

Shelf: The shelf is measured from the center of the imaginary line that goes from one side of the mouth to the other where the nose of the cushion changes direction to the center of the vertical cut of the slate pocket radius.
Corner Pocket:
1 5/8" minimum to 1 7/8" maximum
Side Pocket: 0" minimum to 3/8" maximum

Drop Point Slate Radius: The pocket radius measured from the vertical cut of the slate to the playing surface.

Drop Point Slate Radius 1/8" radius min. to 1/4" radius max.



What do you all think the right shimmed size is if you want it to help you be more accurate, but you still want to be able to practice cheating the pocket?

Just so we know what we are talking about, do notice the first sentence in the BCA standards that says where to measure.
Click to expand...
 
Cap, here's mine. It was done by Ernesto Dominguez. He extended the subrail AND the cushions ( new) then used one shim/cushion facing.
You can tell from the pic the angle is different from Brunswick off-the-factory pockets. Adding shims will make those pockets spit out balls b/c they would be too flat at the end rails.
 
Last edited:
My table with shims is:

Corners: 3 3/4 inches (mouth)
Sides: 3 7/8 inches (mouth)

I currently have pieces of rubber (cut to rail size) screwed to the sides of each pocket opening. (I didn't know if the reduced pocket sizes would be a good thing or not.)

As it turns out, other players love/hate my table! They really hate it when playing on it at first since they miss a lot of shots they would make on a regular table. Then after about 2 or 3 weeks of playing on my table, they get to where they can make a lot of shots, but still miss shots (and curse my table!). But they love it when they have played on my table, then go play on a normal table and they can't miss. The pockets on a normal table then seem like the grand canyon.

So I am now installing permanent shims and will cover them with cloth. I'm using 4 rubber facings on each rail end in addition to the already installed facing.

So I guess this is quadruple shimmed? (If a shim in just an additional facing?)

I have read that some people feel it is bad to shim the pockets because it will decrease your confidence. Others argue that if you wanted more confidence, then why not make bigger pockets...

I must say I had to re-learn everything after installing my shims. My sloppy shooting had to go. I HAD to learn to shoot more accurately period. I have done this.

I can cheat the pockets if it is a close straight in shot. Not by much, but it still can be done.
 
I do not have a table, though if I did I would buy a Diamond. Pockets are nice and not quite as sloppy as Brunswicks. One thing I do hate though are shimmed pockets. They tend to be un-natural and do spit balls out that should fall. When a shot is played, you are not just dropping it in some hole, you play a specific part of the pocket and you know if you missed your point even if it still drops. I do not understand why pockets need to be shimmed. The tighter the pockets the more discouraging it can be. Kills rythm, confidence and STROKE. You know if you missed the ball a little anyway and getting is right is how you improve.
 
Your example is exactly what I meant by saying the "truely "correct" way is to lengthen the rubber". Ernesto and a guy in NorCal are two of the best, but you should expect to pay for their service.

Troy
JoeyInCali said:
Cap, here's mine. It was done by Ernesto Dominguez. He extended the subrail AND the cushions ( new) then used one shim/cushion facing.
You can tell from the pic the angle is different from Brunswick off-the-factory pockets. Adding shims will make those pockets spit out balls b/c they would be too flat at the end rails.
Click to expand...
 
Billy_Bob said:
My table with shims is:

Corners: 3 3/4 inches (mouth)
Sides: 3 7/8 inches (mouth)

I have read that some people feel it is bad to shim the pockets because it will decrease your confidence. Others argue that if you wanted more confidence, then why not make bigger pockets...
Click to expand...

I don't subscribe to the confidence theory, but I see a different problem. Shims are obviously good for your pocketing, but play on equipment that's much tighter than that on which you compete does two things that HURT your game:

1) obscures your view of when to shoot and when to play safe, more defense is called for on super-tight equipment
2) makes you more conservative in your stroke selection (will you really hit a straightish shot up the rail hard to stun the cue ball out off the rail on super-tight equipment?)

Shims have their place, but if you only play on super-tight equipment, some aspects of your game will suffer. Let's not overlook that the trend in men's competition has been toward looser and looser equipment.

Of course, silly-tight equipment is appropriate for one-pocket, a game in which leaving a ball near the pocket is often a superb shot. If your game of choice is one-pocket, Billy Bob, I take it all back.
 
i'd have to agree with SJM here. if you have a table at home i'd make the pockets regulation size. then if you wanted to practice your shot making as far as hitting the center of the pocket you can put pocket reducers in. thus giving you the best of both worlds. you can practice cheating the pocket as well as periodically practicing your center pocket accuracy.

thanks
 
CaptainJR said:
When I got my Brunswick two years ago I told them I wanted it to have standard pockets. When I get it recovered I think I'm going to have if shimmed a little bit. What I'm reading in the Holiday Invitational thread is that everyone posting there has there pockets shimmed a LOT. Here are the BCA standards.


POCKET OPENINGS & MEASUREMENTS (Cloth covered rails):
Pocket openings are measured from tip to tip of the opposing cushion noses where direction changes into the pocket. This is called the mouth.

Corner Pocket: Mouth Between 4 7/8" minimum to 5 1/8" maximum

Side Pocket: Mouth Between 5 3/8" minimum to 5 5/8" maximum

The angle at the corner pocket entrance on each side of the pocket is 142o (±1o).

The angle at the side pocket entrance on each side of the pocket is 103o (± 2o).

Vertical Pocket Angle: 12o minimum to 15o maxim

Shelf: The shelf is measured from the center of the imaginary line that goes from one side of the mouth to the other where the nose of the cushion changes direction to the center of the vertical cut of the slate pocket radius.
Corner Pocket:
1 5/8" minimum to 1 7/8" maximum
Side Pocket: 0" minimum to 3/8" maximum

Drop Point Slate Radius: The pocket radius measured from the vertical cut of the slate to the playing surface.

Drop Point Slate Radius 1/8" radius min. to 1/4" radius max.



What do you all think the right shimmed size is if you want it to help you be more accurate, but you still want to be able to practice cheating the pocket?

Just so we know what we are talking about, do notice the first sentence in the BCA standards that says where to measure.
Click to expand...

4 1/2" corners and 5" sides are a nice happy medium. You will get used to them pretty fast. You can cheat those pockets - no problem.

4" corners and 4.5" sides are tight. That's what I have. You really have to be in stroke to pocket balls on equipment like that and you learn very quickly exactly how important angles are for position play. I make no attempt to cheat the pocket on anything other than a hanger.

Shims are just OK but they are inexpensive. I had new cushions cut to length but it's expensive (expect to pay $200 - $400 more than a recloth for new cushions, installed). I would certainly rather have shimmed pockets than buckets.

Chris
 
TATE said:
4 1/2" corners and 5" sides are a nice happy medium. You will get used to them pretty fast. You can cheat those pockets - no problem.
Click to expand...

Agreed, Tate, and I will add that, to me, those are the perfect specifications for a table at home.
 
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