Shimming Pockets
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
They do make a device that snaps into the pocket - saw on in use on a you tube pool training video the other day.
The proper way to do it is to remove the rail cloth and add corner facing rubbers. Be sure to contour the edges for a smooth ball entry before you staple the cloth back on.
I owned a 10 Brunswick Gold Crown III table pool room in another lifetime. Double shimmed one of the tables, it played like a Diamond of today. Triple shimmed another, it was a monster.
The proper way to do it is to remove the rail cloth and add corner facing rubbers. Be sure to contour the edges for a smooth ball entry before you staple the cloth back on.
I owned a 10 Brunswick Gold Crown III table pool room in another lifetime. Double shimmed one of the tables, it played like a Diamond of today. Triple shimmed another, it was a monster.
you may find it makes play on the table very frustrating. there's a table i play on close to me which has been shimmed (rubber facings under the cloth) and it's so frustrating because balls hit any harder than pocket speed at the far lip bounce out instead of going in the pocket.
i don't know if that's normal for shims or whether a bad job has been done, or low quality shims or something. they do look to be very neatly done, but that's to my untrained eye.
i don't know if that's normal for shims or whether a bad job has been done, or low quality shims or something. they do look to be very neatly done, but that's to my untrained eye.
billiardcue said:
I own a set of the shims that you can take in and out of the pockets. I got a 4x8 and I throw them on when I'm really concentrating on hitting the heart of the pocket. If it even touches the rubber on these shims it rattles out the pocket.
JT,
the best solution for making your pockets tighter is to replace the cushions with longer ones, your a good player and shims will give you funny bounces of the points (tittys) of the pockets, triple shims cause even worse results that will bother you as a good player, when the cushions are longer you can make the pockets tight as you want and not need shims, just a normal simple pocket facing(not a stack of them). Its a pain and some $$, but well worth it,
best
eric
the best solution for making your pockets tighter is to replace the cushions with longer ones, your a good player and shims will give you funny bounces of the points (tittys) of the pockets, triple shims cause even worse results that will bother you as a good player, when the cushions are longer you can make the pockets tight as you want and not need shims, just a normal simple pocket facing(not a stack of them). Its a pain and some $$, but well worth it,
best
eric
jack shurtz
does all the tables here at Magoo's. The front two tables (GC's) are both triple shimmed. He would be the guy to speak to about that.
http://www.shurtzcue.com/
If it were my table, I would permanently leave them triple shimmed. After playing on them for a while now, I miss more on a standard table than I do on the shimmed up ones. Doesn't make sense huh? Well, play on one for a while, and you'll see what I mean. It's probably the single best thing I did for my game was to master that type of table.
does all the tables here at Magoo's. The front two tables (GC's) are both triple shimmed. He would be the guy to speak to about that.
http://www.shurtzcue.com/
If it were my table, I would permanently leave them triple shimmed. After playing on them for a while now, I miss more on a standard table than I do on the shimmed up ones. Doesn't make sense huh? Well, play on one for a while, and you'll see what I mean. It's probably the single best thing I did for my game was to master that type of table.
I think RKC has photo's of a step-by-step subrail extension job on here. This would be what Fatboy is talking about.
Bingo
listen to Eric!! ONE facing is all you want. Otherwise the game is changed. Stacking shims sucks.
Have your subrails extended and add ONE facing. Then sand down the facing edges with a narrow beltsander.
Depending on where you live, I would have RealKingCobra or a Graduate of RKC Academy stop by and fix it right up.:thumbup:
Ray
Fatboy said:
listen to Eric!! ONE facing is all you want. Otherwise the game is changed. Stacking shims sucks.
Have your subrails extended and add ONE facing. Then sand down the facing edges with a narrow beltsander.
Depending on where you live, I would have RealKingCobra or a Graduate of RKC Academy stop by and fix it right up.:thumbup:
Ray
Thank you all for the advice. If I'm going to need new longer rails ( I just got these a month ago), I'll find a 8-foot table somewhere that will handle the humidity in Florida and have the pockets tightened when I recover it.
I don't know what it is, I use to love bar tables, but now I find them too easy. It might have something to do with I was always three sheets to the wind when I played.
When the family got together for the holidays one of my daughters said, "I have seen him barely able to walk and still beat everyone in the place". I said, that was their handicap". Johnnyt
I don't know what it is, I use to love bar tables, but now I find them too easy. It might have something to do with I was always three sheets to the wind when I played.
When the family got together for the holidays one of my daughters said, "I have seen him barely able to walk and still beat everyone in the place". I said, that was their handicap". Johnnyt
There is a thread in the table mechanics section. I asked about how to shim the 5" pockets on my Gold Crown III to 4.5" Turns out that you have to buy 1/4" (5.5mm) shims and replacement pocket facings (depends on your table). I bought mine at Syberts. It was an easy but time consuming job. Cut off the old facings use contact cement to install shims and new facings. Cutting the profile for the new facings and shims was very easy with a box cutter type of knife and a piece of sandpaper. Recover the rails with new cloth (the old cloth is too short) and there you go. Mine came out as well as could be expected. I am no table mechanic and friends who play a lot did not know I had shimmed the table until I told them. They did notice the new cloth!
I debated about doing it for over six months and decided to shim the table when I put new cloth on it. I am glad that I did. The table is now competition quality. It is not that much more difficult to shoot on but it does require you to concentrate on the shot more. I have had no problems with running balls down the rails, balls jumping out, or any other problems. Just a much nicer table. I think it took about 30 minutes to an hour to get used to the new pockets and I am very pleased. Should have done it long ago.
I just read some of the other comments. If you can cover your own table, you can shim the pockets. In my experience there is no difference between my table and any other table I have played on with regard to how the pockets function with the new shims.
I debated about doing it for over six months and decided to shim the table when I put new cloth on it. I am glad that I did. The table is now competition quality. It is not that much more difficult to shoot on but it does require you to concentrate on the shot more. I have had no problems with running balls down the rails, balls jumping out, or any other problems. Just a much nicer table. I think it took about 30 minutes to an hour to get used to the new pockets and I am very pleased. Should have done it long ago.
I just read some of the other comments. If you can cover your own table, you can shim the pockets. In my experience there is no difference between my table and any other table I have played on with regard to how the pockets function with the new shims.
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Johnnyt said:
There's a difference between shims and facings.
Shims (wood) are used to extend the subrail then longer cushions are applied (this is the correct way to tighten pockets).
Facings are used to cover the ends of the cushion.
Subtract the size of the shim (times 2) plus the facing size (times 2) to determine the new measurement of the pocket opening.
Standard facings are 3.2mm (1/8").
ex. If the pocket opening is 5" and you want to go down to 4 1/4" you need 2 quarter inch shims and 2 standard size facings.
This is typical for regular rails - not sure what your results would be on the barbox.
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JoeW is right. RKC has a thread where he shows exactly what is involved in getting tighter pockets the right way. You'll have to extend the rails, cushions, new pocket facings, and extend the groove for the feather strips. He did it on a Gold Crown and you'd be impressed how well it came out. Lots of photos too!
This will show you what I did:
The 1/4" inch shims cost about $4.00 for a set of 12. The pocket facing were about the same. Contact cement was less than $5.00. The new rail cloth was ordered when the Simonis was ordered from
http://www.bestbilliard.com/catalog/1004.cfm?Prod_ID=2
Best Billiard Supply sells the Simonis and everything else you'll need for an excellent price. Now that I have done it I can say it was a no brainer. Before I attempted it I was leary.
I should have noted that as with the original facings I installed two small brads in the facings below the center of the balls. This is in conformance with the original Brunswick installation. The sanding on the facings that can be seen in the photo is the same type of sanding that was done by Brunswick.
As I said before, the table plays as well as before the shims were installed. I too am not one to spend money that I do not need to spend. This was inexpensive ($13.00 plus whatever the add on price was for new rail cloth) if you are recovering the table anyway.
Dartman, the rails play just like they have played for the last 20 years. The new shims have not altered the rebound that I can notice. I read all the threads that talk about extending the cushions to do it "right" etc and I can say from experience that what you see here is cheap, easy and works well enough that good players (APA / TAP 6,7,8) do not know, unless told, that the pockets were shimmed.
BTW I made a pool table stimpmeter that returns the ball to the same spot each time the ball is rolled down the ramp. The return from near the points (where the shims are) is the same as the return from the other part of the rails.
I read the other threads where people triple shim pockets but was not interested in pockets that are anything more than competition quality. While it may not look it in the photo, the pocket width is 4.5" and the the throat action has not been affected in anyway that I am aware of. The table simply plays better.
I could not have done this as well as it was done without the advice of several good people in the table mechanics section. They saved me much time, trial and effort so that I got it right the first time. Some responded to me in PMs so their colleagues would not be upset with the idea that a shoemaker (like me) could get this good a result so easily. They go unnamed but not forgotten. Long live the internet !
The 1/4" inch shims cost about $4.00 for a set of 12. The pocket facing were about the same. Contact cement was less than $5.00. The new rail cloth was ordered when the Simonis was ordered from
http://www.bestbilliard.com/catalog/1004.cfm?Prod_ID=2
Best Billiard Supply sells the Simonis and everything else you'll need for an excellent price. Now that I have done it I can say it was a no brainer. Before I attempted it I was leary.
I should have noted that as with the original facings I installed two small brads in the facings below the center of the balls. This is in conformance with the original Brunswick installation. The sanding on the facings that can be seen in the photo is the same type of sanding that was done by Brunswick.
As I said before, the table plays as well as before the shims were installed. I too am not one to spend money that I do not need to spend. This was inexpensive ($13.00 plus whatever the add on price was for new rail cloth) if you are recovering the table anyway.
Dartman, the rails play just like they have played for the last 20 years. The new shims have not altered the rebound that I can notice. I read all the threads that talk about extending the cushions to do it "right" etc and I can say from experience that what you see here is cheap, easy and works well enough that good players (APA / TAP 6,7,8) do not know, unless told, that the pockets were shimmed.
BTW I made a pool table stimpmeter that returns the ball to the same spot each time the ball is rolled down the ramp. The return from near the points (where the shims are) is the same as the return from the other part of the rails.
I read the other threads where people triple shim pockets but was not interested in pockets that are anything more than competition quality. While it may not look it in the photo, the pocket width is 4.5" and the the throat action has not been affected in anyway that I am aware of. The table simply plays better.
I could not have done this as well as it was done without the advice of several good people in the table mechanics section. They saved me much time, trial and effort so that I got it right the first time. Some responded to me in PMs so their colleagues would not be upset with the idea that a shoemaker (like me) could get this good a result so easily. They go unnamed but not forgotten. Long live the internet !
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