shooting with inside

[evergruven]

personally, gearing english has always appealed to me
playing with inside english has looked ugly by comparison
but I'm starting to see value in it that I didn't see before-
I'm shooting shots with inside, I never would have thought to
enclosing pics of a shot that fits that bill-
a touch of left on this is how I'm used to shooting it
but I recently tried a touch of right instead
and the ball just shot in the center of the pocket, clean
in that moment anyway, it looked good, and felt good
I'm going to keep experimenting
but my question is: how 'bout it?

like I said, shooting this shot with inside seems odd to me
but as long as I'm comfortable with it,
is there anything "wrong" with shooting this shot, and shots like it
with inside?

 

[Geosnookery]

It’s a positive to be able to pot the ball using either inside or outside English. The choice depends on a few other variables...most notably where do you want to position the cueball?

Another is: are you playing 8 ball or 9 ball, etc.? I’m more comfortable with outside English so would likely use it in 9 ball...whereas in 8 ball I might use inside if it meant better cueball position. Missing in 8 ball still leaves ‘me’ a hanger whereas in 9 ball leaving a hanger might be an opportunity for my opponent running out.

 

[straightline]

BHE is very reliable with inside. The pictured shot will be jacked up so you'd have to experiment. For me, if I'm not careful, BHE there will fail from the high ball and swerve instead of just deflection. Still, if the ball is more out in the open where you can level out around the equator of the ball, BHE will allow you to pretty much point the cue right at the contact point on the object ball. Dr. Dave has a more comprehensive method that includes FHE as well.

 

[bbb]

You should be able to make it with any or no english comfortably based on position requirements
If you had to cinch it for 1 million dollars
I dont think many top players ( cj wiley excluded)
Would use inside as their number 1 way to make the shot.....icbw
Straightlines comment above regarding if you can only see the top of the cue ball
Makes using spin much more difficult
And yes you get more swerve than squirt

 

[BilliardsAbout]

personally, gearing english has always appealed to me
playing with inside english has looked ugly by comparison
but I'm starting to see value in it that I didn't see before-
I'm shooting shots with inside, I never would have thought to
enclosing pics of a shot that fits that bill-
a touch of left on this is how I'm used to shooting it
but I recently tried a touch of right instead
and the ball just shot in the center of the pocket, clean
in that moment anyway, it looked good, and felt good
I'm going to keep experimenting
but my question is: how 'bout it?

like I said, shooting this shot with inside seems odd to me
but as long as I'm comfortable with it,
is there anything "wrong" with shooting this shot, and shots like it
with inside?

I'm glad you're using inside (most people favor outside over inside in general, for feel) but why use english on that particular shot?

 

[FranCrimi]

When the cb is that close to a cushion, I try to avoid using any side spin at all unless I have no choice for position purposes (and I like to use side spin!). Your alignment or the way you're bridging on the rail may have something to do with why you're pocketing the ball more successfully with inside. Sounds to me like you may be compensating for an error in your fundamentals.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

personally, gearing english has always appealed to me
playing with inside english has looked ugly by comparison

Side spin isn't for making shots; it's for controlling the CB. The fact that you make this shot more often with side spin has nothing to do with the spin - it means you've got some setup/sighting issues.

pj
chgo

 

[The_JV]

When the cb is that close to a cushion, I try to avoid using any side spin at all unless I have no choice for position purposes (and I like to use side spin!). Your alignment or the way you're bridging on the rail may have something to do with why you're pocketing the ball more successfully with inside. Sounds to me like you may be compensating for an error in your fundamentals.

I'm with Fran 100% on this... I'll even go so far as to ride the coat tails and throw in a x2 on the compensation for something.

I play nearly every ball with some level of side spin. However once the CB gets real close to the rail and you can only hit to top third of it you're adding an element of masse' to the shot. I just recently switched from a Predator Z2 to a Mezz wx700 playing shaft, and the increase of .7mm in tip diameter made this exact shot way more difficult for me. I always wondered why commentators would suggest that the CB being on the rail is a bad thing. Little did I know that the Z2's 11.75mm tip was making these very easy for me.

Back to your shot... I'm going to jump in and risk getting torched by suggesting that there's no secret sauce to making a ball. Inside, outside, whatever. If you feel more comfortable doing one over another and there's zero consequence, then do what's more comfortable. What I will add is this... I treat every shot like an opprotunity to experiment. Every shot is practice until you get to the shot in your pool playing career that "has to" go in. Continue to experiment and learn what you're capable of. Someday you'll come across a situation that calls for something goofy, and you'll be ready for it.

 

[The_JV]

Side spin isn't for making shots; it's for controlling the CB.

98% of the time I completely agree. However I can't tell you how powerful it is to be able to throw OB's on otherwise unhittable (sp?) angles with side spin. ...and in these cases the side spin is for making the shot.

I know you're aware of spin induced throw. ...and in the shot example for this thread, it isn't relevant. Just wanted to check your generalized comment about making shots and CB spin.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

98% of the time I completely agree. However I can't tell you how powerful it is to be able to throw OB's on otherwise unhittable (sp?) angles with side spin. ...and in these cases the side spin is for making the shot.

True enough... but the OP clearly isn't to the point of throwing shots in that he can't "see" - at his stage of development that detail is a confusing distraction at best.

pj
chgo

 

[The_JV]

True enough... but the OP clearly isn't to the point of throwing shots in that he can't "see" - at his stage of development that detail is a confusing distraction at best.

pj
chgo

Fair enough... In terms of "spin to make balls". It is a higher level of skill and confusion for the less experienced.

....however, a "young" one trick pony that only plays with outside may not realize what's happening in terms of throw and how it effects his aim. Once you start playing with both sides of the CB it may be more confusing not to be aware of throw and rather just missing shots when aiming the way you are used to.

 

[JC]

is there anything "wrong" with shooting this shot, and shots like it
with inside?

Nothing wrong with center ball either.

I like to practice sometimes wiping the chalk completely off of my tip with a damp cloth.

Then play the ghost. Without anything available outside dead center of the cue ball you will really appreciate speed and keeping the proper angles on your position play. It's a valuable eye opener when you realize you can move the cue ball around well enough to run out often.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

....a "young" one trick pony that only plays with outside may not realize what's happening in terms of throw and how it effects his aim.

Yes, that info is helpful for him, but as a drawback to anticipate and compensate for on all side spin shots, not as a once-in-a-million pocketing advantage. Again... true, but a distraction at this stage.

pj
chgo

 

[The_JV]

Yes, that info is helpful for him, but as a drawback to anticipate and compensate for on all side spin shots, not as a once-in-a-million pocketing advantage. Again... true, but a distraction at this stage.

pj
chgo

Expand your horizons my friend, and maybe take up 14.1 as well. I hit maybe a dozen racks a day, and purposely throw maybe a handful of shots during that time. It's usefulness comes up waaaaaay more than you're thinking.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Expand your horizons my friend, and maybe take up 14.1 as well.

Gee, thanks for the tip.

I hit maybe a dozen racks a day, and purposely throw maybe a handful of shots during that time. It's usefulness comes up waaaaaay more than you're thinking.

I hit at least that number of racks of 15-ball rotation a day - a game with far fewer shot options - and almost never need to do that. As for your original comment about "throwing OB's on otherwise unhittable (sp?) angles", I don't remember the last time I encountered that.

I'll stick to advice the OP needs now.

pj
chgo

 

[The_JV]

Gee, thanks for the tip.

No problem. Glad I could steer you in the right direction ...and here I thought you were a close minded keyboard warrior that always just wanted the last word regardless if they had anything worth while to add. ...my apologies

 

[evergruven]

first, thanks for all the replies- I appreciate it
I've read them all and will reply as a group

I should have been more clear- I hope the following makes sense
I'm not playing a game with the shot pictured, just practicing
my goal by posting is to get why shooting it with inside is helpful, and not-

of course shooting off the rail is tricky..I set it up bad tho
during the og shot, the ball was further away from the rail
anyway, I'm mainly interested in the cut angle
tho I understand shooting off the rail changes the shot
again, my bad for the set-up..forget about the rail

it's true I'm no all-star player
but I can shoot the shot with top, draw, stun, outside, whatever-
I'm not trying to compensate for anything- I'm just playing with spin
finding different ways of shooting, finding my style
I really was just curious about what effect using inside would have
because I'd never really considered it before
I shouldn't have said anything about gearing english, distracting note
I was just trying to point out how different using inside is on some shots (for me)
I do like spin, but I don't mind shooting a rack with center axis
if a shot doesn't need english, I don't have to put any on the cb
but I'm enjoying learning about cut/spin effects, and thought'd be fun to bring it up

so, all that said, of course it's only after posting this thread
I realize dr. dave might have something to say on the subject ^_^

Inside Spin - Billiards and Pool Principles, Techniques, Resources

Answers to frequently-asked questions about inside english in pool and billiards.

billiards.colostate.edu

tho I'm certainly not oblivious to
"...using inside english when it is not required for CB control is probably not a good approach for most people."
he seems to confirm a bit of what I was feeling on the shot, which makes me feel good
I'm going to keep playing with it..pool, the journey
thanks again for the replies y'all

 

[The_JV]

"...using inside english when it is not required for CB control is probably not a good approach for most people."
he seems to confirm a bit of what I was feeling on the shot, which makes me feel good
I'm going to keep playing with it..pool, the journey

Good call.... Although I respect the hell out of Dr Dave. Suggesting that playing with inside is somehow not a good approach, regardless of the player, seems odd. I'd go the other way and say do it more often if it feels uncomfortable to do. I didn't follow the link so maybe I'm pulling him way out of context.

Off topic but relative. When I was being taught how to weld. The millwright told me that whenever possible perform the weld with my off hand. Without the aid of hindsight this confused me, so I ask the obvious question. His reply was simply...: "When you find yourself in a position that requires your left hand. You won't have any problem doing it." Words to live by imo...

 

[straightline]

The finer points of anything requires a thoroughly prepared base of that particular anything. Most players aren't thusly prepared therefore shouldn't skip to the tricks.

 

[The_JV]

I'm sure that makes sense...., on a philosophy forum...lol.

Care to dumb it down for the peanut gallery...?