Should I Quit Using Old Fashioned Shafts in Favor of LD Shafts?

What I would like to know, is how may pros would be playing with LD shaft X,Y, or Z if they were not getting sponsor money or shafts provided for them?
 
Using an LD shaft is purely a personal issue. Heck I know a guy that uses a Predator butt with a maple shaft. He didn't like the hit of the LD shaft, but loved the feel of the butt. I would try some out before buying one.

Either way, there is no miracle cure or silver bullet to improving your game just by buying new equipment. Improvement is accomplished by lot of playing, practicing, and so forth. If a new shaft would improve my game by 5 balls, I'd go buy one today, but it won't. :smile:
 
I can't go back to a maple shaft......

I would feel like a fool.

The advantages of a low deflection shaft are so huge that it over shadows the disadvantages by a huge amount.

But anyone that buys a low deflection shaft without a lesson on the differences and how to use it will be immediately disappointed.

There should be some videos out there that would help players with the adjustments.

These shafts are one of the reasons the game of pool has improved so much in the last 15 years.

I quit in 1999. When I came back in 2008 it took me about 3 years to wise up and make the switch.

It's not even a thought to go back............
 
ctran said:
I was an LD guy, and to be honest, we have the same discussion in Vietnam also, involving lots of top pros here.

we have agreed that LD shafts help when you start playing pool, they make potting balls easier. but at a higher level, where cue ball control is much much much more important, conventional solid maple shafts are more suitable. the cue ball tends to go exactly where you think they would with a maple shaft.

I don't think LD shafts are more consistent. in fact good maple shafts stay the same for years of play, while LD shafts tend to get weaker the more they are played. this is a fact, if you don't have that problem, you may not play as much with your LD shaft to realize it. the pros here in Vietnam, who play with Pred and Mezz shafts, expect to get new shafts every year or two. I had the same issue with Mezz, played much for more than 1 year and the shaft felt different, weaker, softer.

Some pros here in Vietnam have changed to customs (SW, Tasc, Tad, Mob), and have brushed away Pred and Mezz users, they clearly felt their games have been improved a lot. and that showed also with recent tournament and money games results.

I myself would never play with an LD shaft again.




you have a very good point here, I actually found that deflection is useful, as well as throw effect, and so do those pros who switched to customs.
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Top players play with a broom stick and in an hour or two they can figure it out. Your explanation based on personal preference, and extremely hard to prove, but it is true there is a feel factor, those that played all their life with old fashion maple will take time to adjust
 
I was thinking about getting LD a couple weeks ago but was overwhelmed with choices so still playing with my SHD shaft. In the meantime, I've been reading and drilling and it has given me pause in my quest for getting an LD. It seems that a good goal in pocket billiards is to be able to use speed almost exclusively, rather than relying on English. Therefore, working on speed is much more important than the other things. It seems that only if you have mastered speed do you really benefit from the nuance of LD. I mean, until my recent re-entry into the pool world, I never thought twice about squirt, I just automatically calibrated for it somehow. I am a well above average shot maker... but I've never been anywhere near as good as the guys who beat me time and again with easy shot after easy shot. ...because they play speed-control. Im beginning to think that unless your brain really can't figure out how to compensate for deflection there is no need for and LD shaft if you havent yet mastered speed. Thats my two cents.
 
I started with a cuetec CF (fiberglass) shaft, then did 8 years on predator Z/Z2.

Now I just use plain maple with crazy long tapers. I still switch back and forth some, too. My preference is for plain, now, though.
 
I've always felt that if I don't like the cuemaker's "old fashion" shafts, then I don't like the old fashion cuemaker's cues either.
There are some terrific LD shafts out there, like the new OB "plus" technology shafts, but I prefer the old fashion stuff, so my answer is no, don't change.
 
ctran said:
you have a very good point here, I actually found that deflection is useful, as well as throw effect, and so do those pros who switched to customs.
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in one of the TAR podcasts, Johnny Archer mentioned that he likes deflection, and that he uses it when playing. Bustamante also demonstrated how he uses deflection when shooting - he lets the CB deflect while putting a sightly thick aim to the object ball.
 
genomachino said:
I would feel like a fool.

The advantages of a low deflection shaft are so huge that it over shadows the disadvantages by a huge amount.

But anyone that buys a low deflection shaft without a lesson on the differences and how to use it will be immediately disappointed.

There should be some videos out there that would help players with the adjustments.

These shafts are one of the reasons the game of pool has improved so much in the last 15 years.

I quit in 1999. When I came back in 2008 it took me about 3 years to wise up and make the switch.

It's not even a thought to go back............
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I second this post ... LD shafts have consistency advantages, not only from shot to shot but from shaft to shaft.

Use one type shaft only and do not go back and forth between LD and solid maple, you will never settle in to anything that way.

If you are use to solid maple you will notice that some of these LD shafts may feel lighter, perhaps much lighter depending on brand .. this is the biggest problem with LD in my opinion.

I would not play with a shaft that weighs 3.5 oz. even if it stroked itself. It will completely mess up the balance of your cue.

My advice, find a heavy LD shaft and stick with it.

Amazing that these manufactures will not advertise the weight of their new shafts.

Anyone selling a shaft knows the importance of advertising weight - except, apparently, many of the folks who make them.

I can recommend the following manufacturers - Predator, BD cues, Mezz, Jacoby, McDermott .. there may be others, but the density and quality of the wood used in these shafts are among the best I've seen -- And that is reflected in their WEIGHT.

Good luck.
 
arps said:
in one of the TAR podcasts, Johnny Archer mentioned that he likes deflection, and that he uses it when playing. Bustamante also demonstrated how he uses deflection when shooting - he lets the CB deflect while putting a sightly thick aim to the object ball.
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yep, actually the object ball is "thrown" into the pocket
 
naji said:
Top players play with a broom stick and in an hour or two they can figure it out. Your explanation based on personal preference, and extremely hard to prove, but it is true there is a feel factor, those that played all their life with old fashion maple will take time to adjust
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well, I often feel that those who play with an LD shaft actually have to train their brain to get used to the cue ball movement, which is different from natural physics.

and with feel and feedback transmission also, LD shafts and laminated butts (production cues) don't transmit feedback in full. so the feel of the shot is not true to the hand, that affects improvement.

with those 2 reasons, LD shaft users will take more time to learn the shaft and get to an advanced level, maple shaft users can take advantage of their feelings and instincts more.
 
ctran said:
well, I often feel that those who play with an LD shaft actually have to train their brain to get used to the cue ball movement, which is different from natural physics.

and with feel and feedback transmission also, LD shafts and laminated butts (production cues) don't transmit feedback in full. so the feel of the shot is not true to the hand, that affects improvement.

with those 2 reasons, LD shaft users will take more time to learn the shaft and get to an advanced level, maple shaft users can take advantage of their feelings and instincts more.
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Thanks. I am not saying you are wrong, i just like black and white stuff in pool knowledge, stuff that all can emulate and say mmm! you are right, or wrong with solid evidence, i shot for 33 years with maple, i switched to OB2 two years ago, i did not feel or see the difference, i did notice the low deflection stuff, i like the shaft, did not go back. True i do not play 8 hours a day, but i do put at minimum 3 hrs a day average


I feel your theory above could be easily used for tip hardness alone and feedback on any shaft!
 
naji said:
Thanks. I am not saying you are wrong, i just like black and white stuff in pool knowledge, stuff that all can emulate and say mmm! you are right, or wrong with solid evidence, i shot for 33 years with maple, i switched to OB2 two years ago, i did not feel or see the difference, i did notice the low deflection stuff, i like the shaft, did not go back. True i do not play 8 hours a day, but i do put at minimum 3 hrs a day average


I feel your theory above could be easily used for tip hardness alone and feedback on any shaft!
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it's not the tip.

I do believe what is true to the hands can make full advantage of player's instinct/feeling. the feedback feels true then a player can feel in full how the shots are done, correctly or not, and he learns from that feedback to improve. that is, I believe, a more natural learning curve.

OB may do their shafts differently, without a hollow part like Pred and Mezz WD700, that, I think, is better. but the shaft still does not feel "pure".

I want to stress the cue ball control part, the pros I talked to, they said potting balls is not as difficult as cue ball control. and a maple shaft makes the cue ball travel more like they think before shooting, cue ball control can be more precise and they can "feel" the shot (both cue ball and object ball movements) before shooting. good positioning and cue ball movement as you imagined can have huge mental boost.

about shaft wear-out, that was a fact I learned, I experienced myself and that's how the pros in VN do, they get new shafts every year. a member on AzB also pmed me and said Kim Ga Young told him that also. and that can be explained, I don't think with the idea of laminated shafts and cored shafts, the wood used is as good as traditional maple shafts. I have seen Mezz shafts with excellent wood, but that's not popular.

of course there are always bad maple shafts, but for the money that buys you an LD shaft, you can get very very best maple shafts.
 
This has truth to it: By Jennifer Barretta

7. A great player usually plays with a fairly simple cue. Top players are usually sponsored by cue companies that make cues for the masses. Occasionally a great cue maker will sponsor a player, but usually they really don’t make enough money to do so. People with large collections of expensive cues, or people who switch cues like Imelda Marcos switched shoes are probably not great players because great players know that it ain’t the arrow, it’s the injun.
 
naji said:
Five factors effect pocketing , Aim, Squirt, swerve, throw (all kinds); and most importantly stroke straightness.


Where did you come up with FIVE.... as the magic number????

Dirt, humidity, ball cleanliness all effect pocketing + there are many more factors.
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Ld ?

What low deflection shafts did Moscomi, Greenleaf, Lassiter, Hoppe, Reyes, Archer, Strickland, Bustamantte, etc. and a bunch of others use to win those world titles, none that I know of. My cue maker, Pat Diviney describes it well, "it's like a drug, takes a couple of months to get hooked on it and a couple of months to get off of it". I have a couple of very nice Diviney Lake Salvage shafts and I have an OB Classic shaft. I shoot the same with either one and I consider my self to be a B Class player. Like most things, if you think it helps you, it probably will, attitude and mind set are important. Nothing is a substitute for a good understanding of the game, good technique and good practice and competition. I also believe some are born with more God given ability.
 
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