Should I try a LD shaft? Cant make inside english shot...

A

azbluemach1

Member
Ok, so I had the following shot come up last night, and I over-cut it when shooting with inside english and a bit of top. Tried the shot about 10 more times, and might have made it once. I was shooting with a custom cue that is fairly new to me. Having spent some time yesterday reading about predator and similar LD shafts, I decided to try the shot with my crappy McD jump/break cue which has a rock hard shaft and tip. I made the shot several times in a row, and then I threw out 15 balls, and cleared the table 3 times without missing, shooting EVERY shot with as much inside english as possible.

Was I the victim of deflection on this shot? Any other thoughts?

CueTable Help

 
Well, you said it yourself - you were using a new custom cue that you're not used to. Give yourself some time to adjust.
 
its my understanding that the harder the shaft and tip, the more squirt youre going to get but less deflection.....so an ld shaft and the one youre playing with would be totally different i think.
 
inside english is hard to use even with a LD shaft i have been shooting with a 314 for a while ...and inside english takes some skill to shoot especially with distance or force..now my personal opinion..is that because the shaft of a 314 is a bit smaller than the orginal custom cue shaft...i can get a bit more inside on the ball..but inside is a wonderful thing if you know how to use it.
 
Whatever you decide to do don't give up or shy away from the inside english. I believe it's must have weapon and after watching Shane & Corey play I believe that Shane is going to help a lot of American players see the value in it.
 
ScottW said:
Well, you said it yourself - you were using a new custom cue that you're not used to. Give yourself some time to adjust.
Click to expand...

i agree with ScottW. Also, as you said, the problem is that your overcutting the ball. Adjust. 10 shots is not enough.Try 100 shots. if you still can't make it spend the $200.00 on golf clubs , not a new shaft.
 
Every shaft, regardless of whether they're LD (should be called low-squirt, not low-deflection), requires you to learn its characteristics. If you're playing with a new shaft, you have to give yourself time to adjust. You would have to do the same thing with a 314, Z, or OB-1.

Obviously, if you're overcutting shots with inside with one shaft but hitting the shot dead center pocket with another shaft, you know that you have to aim to hit fuller on the OB with the new shaft. You'll have to consciously make that adjustment, but with enough time, that compensation will become natural, just like it has with the shaft you're used to.

Here's a simple test you can do to find out the squirt characteristics of a shaft: Put the CB on the head spot, then shoot the CB toward the middle diamond on the far rail with 1.5 tips of sidespin (do this a few times). You will easily the squirt distance (unless your bridge length matches the pivot point). I'm guessing your new shaft causes more squirt than your old one (hence the overcut) with the same bridge length. If so, you'll need to learn to aim fuller with inside, and thinner with outside.

-djb
 
LD/LS or not to that is the question. There is a simple answer. What do you expect from your shaft and how do you like to play your shots? If you are the type of player that throws a lot of shots you may not want a LD/LS shaft. If you struggle with accuracy and need a little help adding some spin then a LD/LS might be perfect for you.

My favourite shots are using inside siding and I feel I can guage the reactions better with inside than outside. I would rather hit a shot with inside running juice and go three easy rails for shape than play an outside english draw shot.

But that's just me.
 
If you cant make the shot then just let the cue go a bit and roll it a trip across the table and back. That might be easier than trying to do it with inside.
 
azbluemach1 said:
Ok, so I had the following shot come up last night, and I over-cut it when shooting with inside english and a bit of top.
Was I the victim of deflection on this shot? Any other thoughts?

CueTable Help

Click to expand...


Try hitting the object ball a bit fuller, it will take some adjusting to.
 
azbluemach1 said:
Ok, so I had the following shot come up last night, and I over-cut it when shooting with inside english and a bit of top. Tried the shot about 10 more times, and might have made it once. I was shooting with a custom cue that is fairly new to me. Having spent some time yesterday reading about predator and similar LD shafts, I decided to try the shot with my crappy McD jump/break cue which has a rock hard shaft and tip. I made the shot several times in a row, and then I threw out 15 balls, and cleared the table 3 times without missing, shooting EVERY shot with as much inside english as possible.

Was I the victim of deflection on this shot? Any other thoughts?
Click to expand...

You're going to have to make some kind of adjustment when using a lot of english on a shot like this no matter what shaft you're using. A low deflection shaft will require a smaller adjustment, and a high deflection shaft will require a bigger one. I personally prefer to make small adjustments, but some people prefer to use back-hand english, which actually makes bigger adjustments easier than smaller ones, because bigger adjustments mean shorter pivot points. It's all about preference. Only experimentation, practice, and learning how you can pocket balls the most accurately will tell you whether normal/high deflection or low deflection is easier for you to compensate for.

-Andrew
 
Once you discover the power of inside english (and figure out the aiming) you will become addicted to it. I love inside english more than outside....but it wasn't always that way. I just spent a lot of time hitting all kinds of shots with maximum inside, just loading them up and firing them in...and eventually it clicked.

If you want to be even a decent pool player you must understand how to use inside english comfortably. Adjustment will be different for each cue...but hit a few standard shots until you figure out the aiming..and you'll adjust fairly quick.

Good luck.
 
I guess I would have to understand the other ball positioning you had on this table. Most the time you don't need english, simply by playing ball speed or taking a little more cut on your next shot, you will stay adequately in line. Anytime you apply english you will change the track of the cue ball and impart a transfer of english on the cue ball which in turn throws the object ball. My advice is to avoid it other than center ball high or low.
 
How crappy can one shaft be to squirt the cueball that much at that distance?
Couldn't you have just aimed it center ball, then pivot?
The throw should have equaled the squirt at that distance.
Btw, LAMINATED does not mean low squirt.
In fact, some laminated shafts cause more cueball squirt b/c they are heavier.
 
your avatar...

Matt_24 said:
Once you discover the power of inside english (and figure out the aiming) you will become addicted to it. I love inside english more than outside....but it wasn't always that way. I just spent a lot of time hitting all kinds of shots with maximum inside, just loading them up and firing them in...and eventually it clicked.

If you want to be even a decent pool player you must understand how to use inside english comfortably. Adjustment will be different for each cue...but hit a few standard shots until you figure out the aiming..and you'll adjust fairly quick.

Good luck.
Click to expand...


Am I mistaken, or is that a picture of Fast Larry in your avatar?

Flex
 
bob_bushka said:
I guess I would have to understand the other ball positioning you had on this table. Most the time you don't need english, simply by playing ball speed or taking a little more cut on your next shot, you will stay adequately in line. Anytime you apply english you will change the track of the cue ball and impart a transfer of english on the cue ball which in turn throws the object ball. My advice is to avoid it other than center ball high or low.
Click to expand...

You're right, of course, about the squirt on the cue ball, and the attendant throw on the object ball. However, mastering inside english is a necessary evil.

Once getting it down reasonably well, it can become addicting. There's something incredibly satisfying about really laying into a ball and forcing the cue ball around the table with inside english. Some of the shots that are possible with it will positively make jaws drop.

Go for it!

Flex
 
azbluemach1 said:
Ok, so I had the following shot come up last night, and I over-cut it when shooting with inside english and a bit of top. Tried the shot about 10 more times, and might have made it once. I was shooting with a custom cue that is fairly new to me. Having spent some time yesterday reading about predator and similar LD shafts, I decided to try the shot with my crappy McD jump/break cue which has a rock hard shaft and tip. I made the shot several times in a row, and then I threw out 15 balls, and cleared the table 3 times without missing, shooting EVERY shot with as much inside english as possible.

Was I the victim of deflection on this shot? Any other thoughts?

CueTable Help

Click to expand...

My suggestion is to set up the shot and shoot it about a bazillion times until you own it. Forget LD, HD, or Dee Dee and just concentrate on real world 3D. Practice it until you can make it with your cue, a house cue, my cue, any cue!

Fats
 
azbluemach1 said:
Ok, so I had the following shot come up last night, and I over-cut it when shooting with inside english and a bit of top.

CueTable Help

Click to expand...
This is the secret of pool for many people. Stop thinking in terms of "throw" and you'll start making this shot more simply. If you keep over-cutting it, then you're obviously incorrectly compensating.

The short answer is that you have to aim thicker, like someone else said.

The more complex answer is that you aren't aiming thicker because it's counter-intuitive to players that found out something about throw and have yet to figure out that throw is meaningless in this shot compared to squirt.

The even more complex answer is that if you're using a normal squirt shaft, then your bridge pivot should be around 10-12".

For a Hal Houle answer, just aim your stick to the center of the object ball.

Fred
 
Ok, everyone is right, in that your not aiming at the right place. The reason is usually not the shaft, deflection or throw. Inside english shots are not as common and are typically avoided more than any other. Our brain is not familiar enough with them to do its job. We, me included, haven't given our brain enough practice to know where to aim. Practice it so your brain will know what to do next time.

Try this.

Start with a ball straigh in, CB just below the spot and in the rack and the OB straight in, then progressively move the OB staight to the rail. Shoot the shot with maximum inside at med speed. Do it again, but change your speed to slow, then again at firm speed. Then move the CB farther away, in steps, until you are shooting from the rail. The change in speed is important because the CB acts differently dependant on the speed.Do it on both sides. Do this once a session for about a week and you will have a new tool in your arsenal.

PS, don't get too anal about why, just train your brain.
 
bob_bushka said:
Anytime you apply english you will change the track of the cue ball and impart a transfer of english on the cue ball which in turn throws the object ball. My advice is to avoid it other than center ball high or low.
Click to expand...
I think you are half right in what you say. If you're using outside English, you are actually minimizing throw of the object ball. This is because the striking surface of the cue ball appears to be standing still in relation to the object ball (no sliding friction) when you're using the proper amount of outside English. If you want to avoid skids, this is perhaps the only way to do so. You may only have a ball skid once in 200 shots using center ball, but that is enough to ruin your weekend.
 
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