should I try a Meucci The Pro 12.5mm (maple) if I haven't liked other LD shafts (many)?

[Blueball]

Any LD shaft you play is going to require you change how you aim shots with side spin. Why do you want to do that? For novice and some intermediate players, LD shafts make a ton of sense because you can use sidespin/English and almost aim your shot the same way you would a normal shot. You have said you do not like that. Before we can tell you if you would like a certain LD shaft, you have to tell us (and maybe decide for yourself) what you are looking for out of it? What makes you want an LD shaft if you don't want to change how you aim shots with English?

I find it confusing whenever one says, as it pertains to LD Shafts, that you can “use sidespin/English and almost aim your shot the same way you would a normal shot”? By saying that, is one to infer that you can line up to the shot using Center Ball Aim to the Object Ball target Cut Angle and then, What? Parallel Shift right, left, up or down and expect to pocket the ball with no other thoughts? I don’t think so.

Whenever, I measure up a shaft, I bust out the tape measure to determine how far away from the Cue Ball my bridge must be in order to find the Natural Pivot Point by setting of balls just over a balls width from each other R&L of a Corner Pocket, apply Back Hand R English and if I hit the R Side, then move bridge back and do the opposite if I hit the L Ball. Only when I find the heart of the target and measure how far away from the Tip it is do I know where the Natural Pivot Point is and use it accordingly.

Obviously for Old School Plain Maple those Pivot Points were closer to the Tip (6-8”). LD wooden shafts brought it back further to (11-13+”) with CF way back to around 20” for the REVO (credit to Dr. Dave for this info!).

Nevertheless, adjusting from primarily using BHE on Plain Maple as the Bridge could be set easily at 8” with relatively little adjustment. If I were to go from that to a Wooden LD Shaft (or a CF, for that matter) thinking I could just pot the ball using a “Normal Shot” (ie-6-8” Bridge) I’d find myself spraying the Cue Ball Wide Right and Left on every shot I put English on! Without moving my Bridge back to the Shafts NPP, I’d have no hope of hitting the target! With CF and using BHE, one would have to put their bridge too far back (20+ inches!), so then they would have to primarily employ the combined use of Front Hand English coupled with back hand in order to as closely as possible keep that shafts NPP on the Target Line if they want any shot of being accurate!

Maybe for those who “Learned” that Parallel Shift English was “Correct” on CF Shafts, and somehow by using that method was able to consistently pot balls to then say that a move to LD Wood Shafts would be similar by making the claim that by “using a Normal Shot” one should use a similar “Aim” and be able to consistently pot balls is also a stretch. Without having a reference as to that shafts individual NPP, if someone expects to be able to just get the “feel” for it after however many hours, I urge you to do the aforementioned simple test. It will save you hours (days-weeks) of guesstimating!

 

[Blueball]

So much for my ”rant” above, I was on this page trying to determine how long the “Taper” extends from the tip on the Meucci “The Pro” shafts?

 

[Cue Alchemist]

So much for my ”rant” above, I was on this page trying to determine how long the “Taper” extends from the tip on the Meucci “The Pro” shafts?

They describe it as a 14 inch pro taper.

 

[Cue Alchemist]

I've been saying this for 30 years.
There is not one single shaft that fits every players needs.

If you know what your looking for,it is possible to get something built that is really close.or sometimes it's just a case that you get lucky. It's important that you know, how your favourite cuemaker/brand tapers there shafts. So it might be the 2nd one where you figure it out.That way you can adjust your specs accordingly.

 

[Mensabum]

In a nutshell, I don't like LD shafts and keep going back to my standard maple shafts for my Carmeli (main player is turned down to 12.5mm long pro taper with a quality soft layered tip like G2). Here are the LD shafts I've tried:

• Predator Z3 (standard taper and S tuned to long pro taper) with factory tip
• Predator 314 (standard taper and S tuned to long pro taper) with factory tip
• Predator 314-2 (standard taper) with factory tip
• OB Pro+ (standard taper) with factory tip
• Paul Allers carbon fiber build 12.4mm with soft G2 tip

All of the above LD shafts were either sold or traded. I don't like the standard maple to LD transition. Why cannot I just step into the shot like my standard maple and make the ball (rhetorical question, I know why)?

I did purchase a Rhino CF player 12.5mm with what seems to be a soft layered tip (tip could have been inward tapered more as it is mushrooming a little exceeding the shaft / ferrule diameter just a touch). This LD CF shaft plays most like my standard maple shafts but there are still some transitional adjustments necessary (and it is sitting in my case now with some more hope for playing time, but still go back to my standard Carmeli shaft).

Should I try a Meucci The Pro 12.5mm solid maple shaft or does it play like the top list I provided with too many transitional adjustments necessary? Anyone have a used one or new one that they can sell me with a trial period and return policy?

Aiming approach is open bridge with my chin very close to the shaft. I am definitely a throw english player.

TIA,

Scott

Scott, tt Murf. He's an expert on Meucci shafts and may be able to hook u up w something.

 

[Mensabum]

In a nutshell, I don't like LD shafts and keep going back to my standard maple shafts for my Carmeli (main player is turned down to 12.5mm long pro taper with a quality soft layered tip like G2). Here are the LD shafts I've tried:

• Predator Z3 (standard taper and S tuned to long pro taper) with factory tip
• Predator 314 (standard taper and S tuned to long pro taper) with factory tip
• Predator 314-2 (standard taper) with factory tip
• OB Pro+ (standard taper) with factory tip
• Paul Allers carbon fiber build 12.4mm with soft G2 tip

All of the above LD shafts were either sold or traded. I don't like the standard maple to LD transition. Why cannot I just step into the shot like my standard maple and make the ball (rhetorical question, I know why)?

I did purchase a Rhino CF player 12.5mm with what seems to be a soft layered tip (tip could have been inward tapered more as it is mushrooming a little exceeding the shaft / ferrule diameter just a touch). This LD CF shaft plays most like my standard maple shafts but there are still some transitional adjustments necessary (and it is sitting in my case now with some more hope for playing time, but still go back to my standard Carmeli shaft).

Should I try a Meucci The Pro 12.5mm solid maple shaft or does it play like the top list I provided with too many transitional adjustments necessary? Anyone have a used one or new one that they can sell me with a trial period and return policy?

Aiming approach is open bridge with my chin very close to the shaft. I am definitely a throw english player.

TIA,

Scott

Murph. My bad.

 

[garczar]

So much for my ”rant” above, I was on this page trying to determine how long the “Taper” extends from the tip on the Meucci “The Pro” shafts?

no clue what you said. i skip ALL novel length posts.

 

[fish2]

What are you trying to improve from your standard Carmelli shaft?

 

[Mensabum]

I find it confusing whenever one says, as it pertains to LD Shafts, that you can “use sidespin/English and almost aim your shot the same way you would a normal shot”? By saying that, is one to infer that you can line up to the shot using Center Ball Aim to the Object Ball target Cut Angle and then, What? Parallel Shift right, left, up or down and expect to pocket the ball with no other thoughts? I don’t think so.

Whenever, I measure up a shaft, I bust out the tape measure to determine how far away from the Cue Ball my bridge must be in order to find the Natural Pivot Point by setting of balls just over a balls width from each other R&L of a Corner Pocket, apply Back Hand R English and if I hit the R Side, then move bridge back and do the opposite if I hit the L Ball. Only when I find the heart of the target and measure how far away from the Tip it is do I know where the Natural Pivot Point is and use it accordingly.

Obviously for Old School Plain Maple those Pivot Points were closer to the Tip (6-8”). LD wooden shafts brought it back further to (11-13+”) with CF way back to around 20” for the REVO (credit to Dr. Dave for this info!).

Nevertheless, adjusting from primarily using BHE on Plain Maple as the Bridge could be set easily at 8” with relatively little adjustment. If I were to go from that to a Wooden LD Shaft (or a CF, for that matter) thinking I could just pot the ball using a “Normal Shot” (ie-6-8” Bridge) I’d find myself spraying the Cue Ball Wide Right and Left on every shot I put English on! Without moving my Bridge back to the Shafts NPP, I’d have no hope of hitting the target! With CF and using BHE, one would have to put their bridge too far back (20+ inches!), so then they would have to primarily employ the combined use of Front Hand English coupled with back hand in order to as closely as possible keep that shafts NPP on the Target Line if they want any shot of being accurate!

Maybe for those who “Learned” that Parallel Shift English was “Correct” on CF Shafts, and somehow by using that method was able to consistently pot balls to then say that a move to LD Wood Shafts would be similar by making the claim that by “using a Normal Shot” one should use a similar “Aim” and be able to consistently pot balls is also a stretch. Without having a reference as to that shafts individual NPP, if someone expects to be able to just get the “feel” for it after however many hours, I urge you to do the aforementioned simple test. It will save you hours (days-weeks) of guesstimating!

Do guys really do all this crap??

 

[Mensabum]

no clue what you said. i skip ALL novel length posts.

Hopefully this one's "Gone with the wind."

 

[Bavafongoul]

The roasted maple shaft I recently purchased from Martin @ Superior cues is amazing. Cory Barnhart made the shaft
and he doesn’t refer to his torrified maoke shafts as Kielwood but that’s exactly what it is. It is the best playing shaft
I have ever tried and the cues in my collection all have heavier maple shafts in the 4 oz. range. I intentionally had my
cues built with weight proportional shafts for the cue butts. One of the shafts weighs 4.3 ozs. (12.85mm) and is old
growth wood from decades ago when my cue was originally built. The Barnhart roasted maple shaft is even better.

For reasons unknown, Cory only builds one style of shaft. If you don’t have a cue with a radial pin, you are out of luck.
His RMS shaft played so well, I purchased a Schmelke Kielwood shaft I located weighing 4 ounces and is 12.75mm,
3/8x10 flat faced. I bought a Schmelke SP cue from Mike Mosconi awhile ago. The butt was 14.5 ozs. & shaft 4.0 ozs.
and the darn cue plays amazingly for a SP cue. It is definitely a reliable travel cue to use. My point is I am so pleased
with the Schmelke SP cue I felt that their Kielwood shaft was worth getting. And it is the same specs as some of my cue shafts so it should be a winner. I’m confident about that because the Barnhart shaft has the same specs as my Scruggs
cue shafts made in 2005. The Scruggs shafts are in my cue case but it is the Barnhart shaft that I now use.

The secret for the best results is to match the specs of a Kielwood shaft to the same specs as the shaft you’ve been playing with. I tried other Kielwood shafts and was disappointed, even with a Richard Hsu version. However, the shafts were lighter than the original maple shafts on my cues…13-17 grams lighter. It dawned on me to try and match my cue shafts which I was able to do and the difference was night and day. I understand that LD shafts involve lower mass in the front of the shaft and how that is achieved but in my opinion and real world experience, Kielwood shafts should be weight proportional to the cue’s butt to produce the best feel. And for me, it is all about the feel of the hit which is why my playing cues were built with the same specs so there’s uniformity and consistency. Kielwood shafts are the best, but you have to take time to not just accept what a cue builder built. Match your current shaft specs or change it to something you more prefer but avoid going much lighter than what you now play with. I’ve found it to be very important but for some players it apparently isn’t important because these shafts are highly popular & competitive with CF shafts.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Nope……

Do guys really do all this crap??

Nope……defection exists……it is real……it is only a question of how much. Some shafts produce less.

Deflection is not a bad thing. What is the most important thing in your pool stroke is consistency. When
you do something the same way all the time, you are being consistent. And consistency translates directly
Into dependability…..trustworthy……you can depend on it. There are pro golfers with “hideous, grotesque”
looking good swings that not only look awful but also violate the swing principles of golf. Ever see Lee Trevino
or Jim Furyk swing a golf club……it is just awful but they were winners on the pro tour. When you do something
the same way all the time, it actually morphs into becoming a great swing. When variables in your swing happen,
your swing breaks down and bad results happen. But do it the same way every time and the outcome is a lot more
predictable. So learn the amount of deflection, which is different than swerve caused by cue stroke elevation, and
factor it into your aiming. Cue stroke speed influences defection so make sure to lean how cue ball speed affects it.

 

[Paul_#_]

I believe you have tried two types of shafts:
wood (Z3, 314, 314-2, OB Pro) and carbon fiber (Paul Allers).

Try something different.

Try a combination of carbon fiber and wood that has a very good reputation. Such as the Mezz EX Pro? See photos. Its shaft at joint end has a 19 inch rod of carbon in the maple wood, in the middle of shaft is 4 inches of solid maple, and below the cue tip is 6 inches of hollowed-out maple filled with foam. Some think its great.

Or try the Black Blade cue that has a shock absorber---a cue that has been criticized. The point being that you got to try something different that may be better. You can return if not satisfied (but pay for shipping and handling fees).

About | Black Blade Carbon

FWD weight carbon fiber pool cues. FWD Weight carbon fiber shafts. Vapor Lite wood butts with FWD weight carbon fiber shafts

www.blackbladecarbon.com

The Mezz EX Pro:

 

[garczar]

I believe you have tried two types of shafts:
wood (Z3, 314, 314-2, OB Pro) and carbon fiber (Paul Allers).

Try something different.

Try a combination of carbon fiber and wood that has a very good reputation. Such as the Mezz EX Pro? See photos. Its shaft at joint end has a 19 inch rod of carbon in the maple wood, in the middle of shaft is 4 inches of solid maple, and below the cue tip is 6 inches of hollowed-out maple filled with foam. Some think its great.

Or try the Black Blade cue that has a shock absorber---a cue that has been criticized. The point being that you got to try something different that may be better. You can return if not satisfied (but pay for shipping and handling fees).

About | Black Blade Carbon

FWD weight carbon fiber pool cues. FWD Weight carbon fiber shafts. Vapor Lite wood butts with FWD weight carbon fiber shafts

www.blackbladecarbon.com

The Mezz EX Pro:

View attachment 777975 View attachment 777976

BlackBlade used to be LiquidWeight. Still says it on some of their butts. No clue as to a 'shock absorber' in their cues. I know of one person who's hit one of these and he thought it was terrible.

 

[Mensabum]

I believe you have tried two types of shafts:
wood (Z3, 314, 314-2, OB Pro) and carbon fiber (Paul Allers).

Try something different.

Try a combination of carbon fiber and wood that has a very good reputation. Such as the Mezz EX Pro? See photos. Its shaft at joint end has a 19 inch rod of carbon in the maple wood, in the middle of shaft is 4 inches of solid maple, and below the cue tip is 6 inches of hollowed-out maple filled with foam. Some think its great.

Or try the Black Blade cue that has a shock absorber---a cue that has been criticized. The point being that you got to try something different that may be better. You can return if not satisfied (but pay for shipping and handling fees).

About | Black Blade Carbon

FWD weight carbon fiber pool cues. FWD Weight carbon fiber shafts. Vapor Lite wood butts with FWD weight carbon fiber shafts

www.blackbladecarbon.com

The Mezz EX Pro:

View attachment 777975 View attachment 777976

I believe you have tried two types of shafts:
wood (Z3, 314, 314-2, OB Pro) and carbon fiber (Paul Allers).

Try something different.

Try a combination of carbon fiber and wood that has a very good reputation. Such as the Mezz EX Pro? See photos. Its shaft at joint end has a 19 inch rod of carbon in the maple wood, in the middle of shaft is 4 inches of solid maple, and below the cue tip is 6 inches of hollowed-out maple filled with foam. Some think its great.

Or try the Black Blade cue that has a shock absorber---a cue that has been criticized. The point being that you got to try something different that may be better. You can return if not satisfied (but pay for shipping and handling fees).

About | Black Blade Carbon

FWD weight carbon fiber pool cues. FWD Weight carbon fiber shafts. Vapor Lite wood butts with FWD weight carbon fiber shafts

www.blackbladecarbon.com

The Mezz EX Pro:

View attachment 777975 View attachment 777976

You might also try the Fuze shaft. Carbon fiber infused Torrified maple.

 

[Mensabum]

BlackBlade used to be LiquidWeight. Still says it on some of their butts. No clue as to a 'shock absorber' in their cues. I know of one person who's hit one of these and he thought it was terrible.

Power piston butts on Meucci's had hi tech for a short time period. Love em or hate em.

 

[sbrownn]

Nope……

Nope……defection exists……it is real……it is only a question of how much. Some shafts produce less.

Deflection is not a bad thing. What is the most important thing in your pool stroke is consistency. When
you do something the same way all the time, you are being consistent. And consistency translates directly
Into dependability…..trustworthy……you can depend on it. There are pro golfers with “hideous, grotesque”
looking good swings that not only look awful but also violate the swing principles of golf. Ever see Lee Trevino
or Jim Furyk swing a golf club……it is just awful but they were winners on the pro tour. When you do something
the same way all the time, it actually morphs into becoming a great swing. When variables in your swing happen,
your swing breaks down and bad results happen. But do it the same way every time and the outcome is a lot more
predictable. So learn the amount of deflection, which is different than swerve caused by cue stroke elevation, and
factor it into your aiming. Cue stroke speed influences defection so make sure to lean how cue ball speed affects it.

I agree. I have a good stroke, I tried multiple LD shafts and I always go back to old growth maple. Guess I am old school.

 

[sbrownn]

I agree. I have a good stroke, I tried multiple LD shafts and I always go back to old growth maple. Guess I am old school.

I forgot to mention I always play with forged irons when I play golf. Maybe the old growth maple mirrors that feel and stroke, who knows?

 

[Bavafongoul]

I now have two Kielwood shafts. I need one more (3/8x11 flat faced) and then I’ll have a shaft for all 6 cues in my case.
Both of the shafts I have play fantastic. The shafts are described as LD. I made sure I got heavier shafts that took awhile

I wish I had these shafts in my prime but that was 40-45 years ago long before this process was even being used.
Both shafts are exceptionally stiff and despite not have the features I so much prefer, like ivory ferrules, the results
can’t be argued. I move and control the cue ball much better using these torrified maple wood shafts but I also made
it a point to locate Kielwood shafts that had the identical specs as the original maple shafts I was going to replace.

I can’t say for sure how much that mattered but I did not care for any of the Kielwood shafts I previously tried, all of
which were much lighter than any of my cue’s original maple shafts that average >20% of the cue’s playing weight.
That’s a rule that has never disappointed me with any pool cue I purchased from someone or had a cue maker build.
I followed that buying my 1st Kielwood shaft. It worked out so great that I just got another Kielwood shaft last week.

 

[Johnny Rosato]

should I try a Meucci The Pro 12.5mm (maple) if I haven't liked other LD shafts (many)?

naw ​