Should Mosconi Cup have one woman

[Black-Balled]

You should be banned for posting this. One month vacation.

 

[Kris_b1104]

Imagine living in the year 0. How much respect did women have?

Repeat for 1500, 1600, 1900, 1910, 1920

Since women have joined the military technology development has accelerated faster than ever.

There are several talented and capable women, if no one is paying to create opportunities for them to develop and lead then the adoption of billiards will be slower.

Imagine if no one gave Amelia the plane to fly.
Today which women in the billiard industry are as proven as experienced as Allison Fisher. Allison is the list and she should decide the future of women in pool.

A discussion on if women belong in the Mosconi is a political theater. I hope women win with a majority support from everyone else.

If you argue cost vs benefits not paying women and increasing women pay and women employment then you are on the decay model. Including women financial is an upfront cost for a chance at viral growth.

Without that investment you can watch the cycles of failure by promoters.

What in the ChatGPT is this...

 

[Flakeandrun]

What in the ChatGPT is this...

I believe it is the result of some form of conscious altering stroke.

 

[jasonlaus]

I think Mosconi Cup is special because it’s the best of the best on merit between the two teams. It clearly works. I don’t think you need to thumb the scales in the format to intentionally include a marginalized population.

I think the WPBA attempting to run its own team-based event would be of more interest to me than tinkering with the MC.

I'm not sure how women are marginalized, that's what the narrative is.

Preferential treatment when it comes to hiring, never can be drafted, nearly always win custody of children, usually get the house, half the man's retirement, free drinks, free food, can never be hit, etc. etc. Etc.

Doesn't sound marginalized to me. Sounds like a pretty good deal

 

[garczar]

Of course we should ruin the most watched and most fun event of the year, geez, why didn't Matchroom think of this

agree 100%. a lot of people think this is about a comp. to see who has the best players. hell, if that was the case they'd have put this dog down yrs ago. its entertainment with pool as the vehicle. making it longer with slower games would be the end of the MC. finito.

 

[garczar]

I'm not sure how women are marginalized, that's what the narrative is.

Preferential treatment when it comes to hiring, never can be drafted, nearly always win custody of children, usually get the house, half the man's retirement, free drinks, free food, can never be hit, etc. etc. Etc.

Doesn't sound marginalized to me. Sounds like a pretty good deal

more woke shit. yawwwwwwwwn. i agree here.

 

[FranCrimi]

It has already been done. I recall both Vivian Villareal and Jeanette Lee representing Team USA and Allison Fisher and Franziska Stark (a women's European 9-ball champion) representing Team Europe. The ladies only played each other.

I think this was done in the 1994 Mosconi Cup and possibly again in 1995, but Matchroom didn't stay the course. It's a safe bet that they had access to the TV ratings numbers for both the men's matches and the women's matches and found that what the viewing customer preferred to watch the men.

As has been noted often on this forum, women's pool is not part of Matchroom's core offering, so there's no reason to expect to find women playing in the Mosconi anytime soon,

Nonetheless, for those who want to watch men and women on the same team, try the World Team Championships, which has team of three. It's a solid event and this year, Team Germany won the event with a team of Josh Filler, Moritz Neuhausen and Pia Filler.

Hi Stu. It's my understanding that it wasn't ratings that caused Matchroom to abandon the women. The issues were there before the broadcast. It's not my place to go into details publicly.

 

[MattPoland]

I'm not sure how women are marginalized, that's what the narrative is.

Preferential treatment when it comes to hiring, never can be drafted, nearly always win custody of children, usually get the house, half the man's retirement, free drinks, free food, can never be hit, etc. etc. Etc.

Doesn't sound marginalized to me. Sounds like a pretty good deal

I don’t mean in terms of society. I mean in terms of billiards. 50% of the population is women but it’s nowhere near 50% of pool players are women. It’s clear they are underrepresented.

You can talk to women pool players about their experiences competing amongst men and you’ll be regaled with stories about little bitchy men that start sharking if they think they’re about to “lose to a girl”. And I see that in leagues where men visibly tease their teammates or themselves throw a tantrum for “losing to a girl”. Enough so that it’s clearly visible to that woman. You can have a woman playing pool and unskilled men are much more likely to offer unsolicited bad advice to her from the sidelines than they are to a man (to the degree of disrupting their match).

There are welcoming environments in billiards to women but that’s in spite of the ever present discouraging experiences that I’m betting you can can speak to many women about and they’ll all have a tale to tell unique from your own experiences.

And as such there’s programs intentionally meant to combat this phenomenon. There’s a reason not all organized billiards isn’t just open fields. There’s a reason some events are mixed (requiring a female) or specifically women-only. There’s a reason the WPBA exists and yet a Professional Left-handed Pool Association doesn’t. Organized women’s pool exists to counteract their marginalization in billiards.

 

[Black-Balled]

I don’t mean in terms of society. I mean in terms of billiards. 50% of the population is women but it’s nowhere near 50% of pool players are women. It’s clear they are underrepresented.

You can talk to women pool players about their experiences competing amongst men and you’ll be regaled with stories about little bitchy men that start sharking if they think they’re about to “lose to a girl”. And I see that in leagues where men visibly tease their teammates or themselves throw a tantrum for “losing to a girl”. Enough so that it’s clearly visible to that woman. You can have a woman playing pool and unskilled men are much more likely to offer unsolicited bad advice to her from the sidelines than they are to a man (to the degree of disrupting their match).

There are welcoming environments in billiards to women but that’s in spite of the ever present discouraging experiences that I’m betting you can can speak to many women about and they’ll all have a tale to tell unique from your own experiences.

And as such there’s programs intentionally meant to combat this phenomenon. There’s a reason not all organized billiards isn’t just open fields. There’s a reason some events are mixed (requiring a female) or specifically women-only. There’s a reason the WPBA exists and yet a Professional Left-handed Pool Association doesn’t. Organized women’s pool exists to counteract their marginalization in billiards.

Cmon now, America.

Please don't conclude 'you lost to a girl' comes from a place of gender bias. If you lost to a child or a fatty or a beginner, we'd still feed you shit...coz you lost.

The details of whom you lost to are not the primary factor in the shit fed.

 

[Justaneng]

Cmon now, America.

Please don't conclude 'you lost to a girl' comes from a place of gender bias. If you lost to a child or a fatty or a beginner, we'd still feed you shit...coz you lost.

The details of whom you lost to are not the primary factor in the shit fed.

I’m inclined to believe Matt on this one. I don’t think you really see it in league/tournament play where people have known handicaps and Fargo ratings.

But I have absolutely seen it randomly. My favorite local one is we have a very pretty, 20-something APA-5/Fargo-410 player who will come in to the pool hall and shoot around some by herself. Bangers trip over themselves to go “help” her when she misses a shot, even if what she was practicing was 3-rail shape and that’s the primary reason the shot was missed. (These are all 7’ bar boxes so at the Fargo 400+ range most straight forward shots are makes)

At other locations I’ve seen women have to use ear buds, because otherwise the chance they won’t be hit on is effectively zero. And the approaching guy is probably absolute shit at the pool table and no help to her.

It’s different than when guy A asks guy B if he wants to shoot a few friendly racks. Usually guy A will look at how guy B shoots and determine if their speeds are compatible enough for a fun game. The dudes approaching women in a pool hall do so not caring whatsoever about the pool.

 

[Black-Balled]

I’m inclined to believe Matt on this one. I don’t think you really see it in league/tournament play where people have known handicaps and Fargo ratings.

But I have absolutely seen it randomly. My favorite local one is we have a very pretty, 20-something APA-5/Fargo-410 player who will come in to the pool hall and shoot around some by herself. Bangers trip over themselves to go “help” her when she misses a shot, even if what she was practicing was 3-rail shape and that’s the primary reason the shot was missed. (These are all 7’ bar boxes so at the Fargo 400+ range most straight forward shots are makes)

At other locations I’ve seen women have to use ear buds, because otherwise the chance they won’t be hit on is effectively zero. And the approaching guy is probably absolute shit at the pool table and no help to her.

It’s different than when guy A asks guy B if he wants to shoot a few friendly racks. Usually guy A will look at how guy B shoots and determine if their speeds are compatible enough for a fun game. The dudes approaching women in a pool hall do so not caring whatsoever about the pool.

I'm not sure where to start!

Pretty women are desired everywhere they go. You could likely exclude pretty from that sentence.

That isn't a sport problem.

 

[sjm]

Hi Stu. It's my understanding that it wasn't ratings that caused Matchroom to abandon the women. The issues were there before the broadcast. It's not my place to go into details publicly.

Thanks Fran. My deductive logic failed me on this occasion and I'm glad you've set the record straight.

Hope you're well.

 

[CanadianGuy]

I would say Team Asia should be the priority but yeah add a woman per team for sure

 

[skogstokig]

I would say Team Asia should be the priority but yeah add a woman per team for sure

agree on asia but women in MC would make no sense considering the move towards more meritocracy AND the fact that the women tour is exclusively on the WPA side of things

 

[skogstokig]

south korea is the only country i can think of where a woman pro may be ahead of the top male pool pros in official rankings. because most of the male cueists play 3c