should pro tournaments ban the jump cue?

[Flex]

I was just curious. If someone feels that jump cues should be allowed in professional play, regardless of how much it simpilifies one part of the game, would they not be contradicting themselves by then stating that rotational eight ball should be played because the regular version is too easy?
I know it is a little out of left field. I was just wondering where a few people are coming from.

I getcha. Perhaps someone would like to use their jump cue, and also enjoys more difficult games of pool, say rotational 8 ball, or one pocket, or straight pool. How about cribbage? That'll give people headaches, I bet. I guess those people will have to speak up for themselves...

By the way, sometimes I use my jump cue for very delicate, over an interfering ball that is kissing the cue ball shots... Works great. Just a short cue in that case. Definitely the ticket for some shots.

While we're on the jumping controversy, why not make things a whole lot easier and permit scooping the ball?? Now that would really please some folks...

Flex

P.S. Just kidding about scooping...

 

[Flex]

i've always believed that the cue ball should not be allowed to leave the cloth intentionally in pro or semi-pro tourney's period.

That's an interesting idea. However, any time the cue ball is really hit hard on either a draw or force follow shot, it jumps a little bit. And there's really nothing that can be done about that. So if that is OK, why not shots where the cue ball is intentionally struck in such a way that it hits the rail and pops up into the air, possibly jumping over blocking balls? What's wrong with little stubby masses, or little jump masses? This thing could get ridiculous...

Flex

 

[9 ball]

So Sjm are you saying that when a pro player like thorsten hohmann or rodney morris use a jump that makes them inferior to the players who use positional play to get round the table?.

It takes a hell of a lot of skill to pull off a well executed jump shot and quite frankly the pros who use jump cues should be applauded because they are inventive when they get the "short stick" out.

Heres a case in point wpc 04 group stages the year hohmann failed to qualify for the knock out phase he was in a match where he was blocked from the 1 ball so he decided to pull out the jump cue there was no way he could kick at it he could only go over the blocking and what he did next was spectacular

CueTable Help

From this you can see he jumped the wall of colours ran the rail pocketed the 1 and landed in perfect position for the 2, if thats not classed as skill with a jump cue then I don't know what is.

btw I'm new to this wei table lark so go easy on the diagram I did the best I could to make my point.

 

[skins]

That's an interesting idea. However, any time the cue ball is really hit hard on either a draw or force follow shot, it jumps a little bit. And there's really nothing that can be done about that. So if that is OK, why not shots where the cue ball is intentionally struck in such a way that it hits the rail and pops up into the air, possibly jumping over blocking balls? What's wrong with little stubby masses, or little jump masses? This thing could get ridiculous...

Flex

for experienced players it would be easy to tell if it's intentional or not. show me a player shooting a shot where the ball jumps off the table and and i'll tell you wether it was intentional or not. i don't mean the little "hop" a ball takes when jacking up the cue for masse', bridging over a ball, force follow or draw. you really have no sure idea what the ball is going to do on shots such as these. as far as using the rail that's fine as long as "your equiptment" didn't cause the elevation of the ball. that's why i said semi and pro player tourney's because they should be able to tell these types of shots easily.

 

[Cameron Smith]

The real question should be: should the jump shot be disallowed?

No, as long it is made with a legal stroke. Though I do believe it is outlawed in snooker though. But it isn't really needed. And I do it anyways if the person I am playing isn't aware of the rule .

For short people, having to jump with regular cues would put them at an exreme disadvantage. Thus jump cues should not be disallowed in my opinion. It adds an extra dimension of strategy to playing safe and excitement to the game, especially when someone makes a dynamite jump shot.

Should short basketball players be allowed a ladder? No other sport compromises for those who have physical incapabilities. I am 5'7" but I don't expect to be tailored to.

If you did disallow the jump cue, my answer to this being 5'9" tall would to bring in a wooden box to the tournament LOL, stand on it, and jump away with my regular cue. Would you be banning the wooden box LOL? Or maybe I could put on my stilts like Earl put on his elongated fingers in Europe LOL. Actually, playing in the APA where jump cues are not allowed, I have developed a good jump shot with my regular cue that has only a medium Moori tip. And I have also developed a masse type jump shot when I need to hit down at a greater angle. This entails putting your bridge hand on your outstretched stomach (another necessity LOL) and jumping. I can at least hit the ball down the table and obtain contact, but with no accuracy. Eat your hearts out you skinny people

Stilts and boxes wouldn't be allowed because one foot has to touch the floor at all times.

 

[Cameron Smith]

for experienced players it would be easy to tell if it's intentional or not. show me a player shooting a shot where the ball jumps off the table and and i'll tell you wether it was intentional or not. i don't mean the little "hop" a ball takes when jacking up the cue for masse', bridging over a ball, force follow or draw. you really have no sure idea what the ball is going to do on shots such as these. as far as using the rail that's fine as long as "your equiptment" didn't cause the elevation of the ball. that's why i said semi and pro player tourney's because they should be able to tell these types of shots easily.

Rules have to be written in a legal language so that players do not find loop holes.

What Flex was referring to was that it would be too difficult rule out jump shots without taking every aspect into it. What constitutes a jump? What is the exact measurement of the jump that classifies it as an illegal shot? What about this scenario or that scenario, etc.

I don't think jump shots should be outlawed because they require a great amount of skill (if played with a full cue). I just think that a line has to be drawn somewhere in terms of technology. This is a huge debate in the golf world as better and better technology is being developed that is further simplified that the game. I think pool is on that road if its not already there.

 

[X Breaker]

In your opinion, should we allow the use of finger extensions?

Richard

 

[Voodoo Daddy]

Damn right. Have you ever seen the kind of damage those can do to the cloth and slate?

 

[cueandcushion]

Stilts and boxes wouldn't be allowed because one foot has to touch the floor at all times.

There is a famous story in St. Louis where a player tried to call a foul on another player that only had one leg, "One foot on the floor rule" . He had an artificial leg but it would not bend to make a long shot. When the first player yells " One foot on the floor or its a foul!" The shooter glares back at him, gets off the rail, disconnects his leg, leaves it on the floor, climbs completely on the table...shoots the ball...and says back..."Is that better, a**hole????"

Classic....

 

[Flex]

There is a famous story in St. Louis where a player tried to call a foul on another player that only had one leg, "One foot on the floor rule" . He had an artificial leg but it would not bend to make a long shot. When the first player yells " One foot on the floor or its a foul!" The shooter glares back at him, gets off the rail, disconnects his leg, leaves it on the floor, climbs completely on the table...shoots the ball...and says back..."Is that better, a**hole????"

Classic....

Genial, innovative, inventive, outside-the-box, sly, effective... LOL

Flex

 

[Snapshot9]

Richard ...

In your opinion, should we allow the use of finger extensions?

Richard

There is such a thing that is referred to as a 'Jump stilt'. Most are
usually home-made out of wood. Shaped like a Stilt (L with tail),
you put the long end down on table and the horizontal extension
between your index finger and thumb (in the soft flesh part). This serves
to give you more height when for your normal bridge hand when shooting
a jump shot, especially if you are cueing the jump shot over a ball.

I have been thinking about making myself one as they are not big, and
can fit into a case with no problem. They add up to about 4" in height
for a jump shot.

 

[Flex]

There is such a thing that is referred to as a 'Jump stilt'. Most are
usually home-made out of wood. Shaped like a Stilt (L with tail),
you put the long end down on table and the horizontal extension
between your index finger and thumb (in the soft flesh part). This serves
to give you more height when for your normal bridge hand when shooting
a jump shot, especially if you are cueing the jump shot over a ball.

I have been thinking about making myself one as they are not big, and
can fit into a case with no problem. They add up to about 4" in height
for a jump shot.

Very interesting! I'm having trouble imagining what it looks like. Ever see a picture of one somewhere online?

Flex

 

[Snapshot9]

No

Very interesting! I'm having trouble imagining what it looks
like. Ever see a picture of one somewhere online?

Flex

No, I haven't. Like I said most (if not all) are handmade out of wood. Like
I said, turn a stilt upside down, put the horizontal part extending from
fleshy part (between index finger and thumb) in under your palm of hand
and grip if desired. The little vertical tail extends upward between index
and thumb. When I say vertical tail, it would normally be the bottom part of a stilt underneath the horizontal part.

I made a crude rendition of one for you.

 

[Flex]

No, I haven't. Like I said most (if not all) are handmade out of wood. Like
I said, turn a stilt upside down, put the horizontal part extending from
fleshy part (between index finger and thumb) in under your palm of hand
and grip if desired. The little vertical tail extends upward between index
and thumb. When I say vertical tail, it would normally be the bottom part of a stilt underneath the horizontal part.

I made a crude rendition of one for you.

Thanks so much.

Flex

 

[NYC cue dude]

jump cues

As a true supporter of the 14.1 discipline, I have a real problem with the jump cue. There is a guy in my room (a dedicated 9 baller) who when he plays straight pool, he invariably, to my shagrin, utilizes his jump/break cue. It doesn't belong in this game, nor does it belong in serious 8 ball.

Since I don't play 9 ball, I will refrain on posting any opinion. Clearly the game being played should dictate the inclusion/ban on the jump cue. I can't imagine how the "old timers" might feel seeing these cues used in a one pocket game.

Furthermore, some sports disallow what would otherwise be legal equipment on the pro level. Aluminum bats are allowed in baseball up through college. Players are then weened from that equipment as they head to the minors or pros. Imagine how the record books would be affected if todays pro baseball players would be allowed to use aluminum bat "technology".

Jump cues should be banned from all pro tournaments (1pkt, 14.1, 8ball and banks), with the possible exception of 9 ball.

my 2 cents.

rg

 

[supergreenman]

As a true supporter of the 14.1 discipline, I have a real problem with the jump cue. There is a guy in my room (a dedicated 9 baller) who when he plays straight pool, he invariably, to my shagrin, utilizes his jump/break cue. It doesn't belong in this game, nor does it belong in serious 8 ball.

Since I don't play 9 ball, I will refrain on posting any opinion. Clearly the game being played should dictate the inclusion/ban on the jump cue. I can't imagine how the "old timers" might feel seeing these cues used in a one pocket game.

Furthermore, some sports disallow what would otherwise be legal equipment on the pro level. Aluminum bats are allowed in baseball up through college. Players are then weened from that equipment as they head to the minors or pros. Imagine how the record books would be affected if todays pro baseball players would be allowed to use aluminum bat "technology".

Jump cues should be banned from all pro tournaments (1pkt, 14.1, 8ball and banks), with the possible exception of 9 ball.

my 2 cents.

rg

This of course would be your opinion. As it was said by myself and others in this thread, change is a part of life, and change has been a part of pocket billiards since it's conception. It might interest you to know that one of the first people I came across using a jump cue was a gentleman in his late 60s.

I personally love the opportunity to use my jump cue in 1 pocket. If you can't swim with the tide, you're going to drown. I don't believe that 14.1 should be immune from equipment change either. Personally, I don't think it's much of an issue. Safety shots in straight pool involve every ball on the table, not just 1 ball or a particular suit of balls and the need to jump over a ball should extremely rare.

With or with out a jump cue, a jumpshot requires skill, not just to hit the object ball, but sink it. I see lots of people jumping balls, a lot less sink them.

 

[X Breaker]

No, I haven't. Like I said most (if not all) are handmade out of wood. Like
I said, turn a stilt upside down, put the horizontal part extending from
fleshy part (between index finger and thumb) in under your palm of hand
and grip if desired. The little vertical tail extends upward between index
and thumb. When I say vertical tail, it would normally be the bottom part of a stilt underneath the horizontal part.

I made a crude rendition of one for you.

Are these allowed in tournament plays?

I was thinking finger extentions would make full cue jump much easier. But this device is more geared towards jump cue, isn't it?

I have seen players using their playing cues to support their jump cues to make "in the middle of the table" jump easier. Then again, Make Massey has shown us those shots can all be done one handed.

By the way, the first jump shot I read about was one done by Willie Mosconi. I cannot remember if he was using a full cue.

Richard

 

[vader93490]

I've used a jump cue pretty much since it first became popular in the early 90's. I've seen it go through many different variations, from its first factory inceptions of being a small Meucci butt you'd screw into a regular Meucci cue shaft on up to the many forms it currently enjoys today.

The jumper has won many a game & set for me in years past. This is, however, a double-edged sword that can & has cut both ways as I've lost many a game & set when someone made a good shot on me with a jumper in years past.

Admittedly, I don't like to see the jumper maligned as I am fond of using it & am not the slightest bit hesitant in employing it during a game. Considering how useful the jumper is, it forces me to try to play better safeties as a result.

Therefore, I advocate leaving it in the game. It's potential usefulness is a factor that simply just can't be ignored. It's a great tool for a pool player to have in my opinion.

 

[jay helfert]

The Jump Cue Question

The issue of whether or not to allow jump cues has created a dilemma for tournament directors.

When allowing jump cues there is always the question as to what is a legal jump cue. Must it be over 40", have a leather tip and be no more than 15mm. There becomes a problem determining what is a legal jump cue and what is an illegal jump cue. Some new leather based tips can be made as hard as a rock, so they are just as effective as a phenolic tip.

At this time, my feeling is to either allow all jump cues or ban them entirely. There are most definitely bans on various types of equipment in golf, tennis and bowling. In golf, most recently they banned the croquet style putter and several golf balls are on the cannot play list.

In tennis, racquets must conform to certain size requirements and in bowling, the players bowling ball is closely inspected.

The jump cue is an exciting innovation to pool and the fans seem to enjoy watching players use it. Used properly there is a great degree of skill involved. Saying all that, I'm not sure they belong in pro events.

So I am at a crossroads in this debate. Pretty much, I try to conform to what other TD's are doing at the main pro events worldwide.

 

[Snapshot9]

Richard ...

Are these allowed in tournament plays?

I was thinking finger extentions would make full cue jump much easier. But this device is more geared towards jump cue, isn't it?

I have seen players using their playing cues to support their jump cues to make "in the middle of the table" jump easier. Then again, Make Massey has shown us those shots can all be done one handed.

By the way, the first jump shot I read about was one done by Willie Mosconi. I cannot remember if he was using a full cue.

Richard

They are legal, as is using a crutch for a jump shot. I will never forget when I was playing league many years ago, and I had to get 'up' on the cue ball for a shot, and being 5'7", I could not get the proper angle on the cue ball. I often used a chair for my left leg, with my right on the floor to
stretch myself out more for the proper angle, and people tried to call a foul on me, but it is not a foul, or against the rules. Funny, they never said
anything until after I made the shot .... lol.