Should the TAR table stay as is or go to standard pockets? You choose.

What size pockets should be on the TAR Table?

  • Keep the 4 1/8" pockets.

    Votes: 236 46.5%
  • Switch to standard Diamond 4 1/2" pockets.

    Votes: 271 53.5%

  • Total voters
    507

JCIN

TheActionReport.com
Gold Member
There has been some discussion about the TAR table being too tight. So lets see what the majority has to say. Personally I see both sides so I am interested to see where the numbers are. Please vote in the poll.

I would ask that you please only vote if you have watched a match on the TAR Studio table. There are plenty of threads debating the merits of tight or not. I am just looking for some feedback on what customers want to see.
 

JCIN

TheActionReport.com
Gold Member
Gotta have a poll to vote on a poll...

oops

:p

Slow down on the trigger there Tex. You have to post first then fill in the poll. I appreciate the enthusiasm though.

Edit: I meant I had to make the OP then fill in the poll questions after it went up. Hence the post with no poll.

<----starting to confuse himself
 
4 and 1/8th is not even that tight. If you can hit a ball hard straight down the rail and the ball goes in, I don't see what the problem is.
 

Eric.

Club a member
Silver Member
I'll play. I think 4.25" pockets on a Diamond table is the best of both worlds; challenging table, but loose enough for top players to play rotation games, without going into "tough table stroke".

In the absence of the 4.25" choice, I went with 4.5".


Eric
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
Slow down on the trigger there Tex. You have to post first then fill in the poll. I appreciate the enthusiasm though.

Interesting. I looked at it a couple times before posting, to make sure, and then since, just in case I inserted foot-in-mouth... hmmm.
I see it this time.
 

JCIN

TheActionReport.com
Gold Member
What do the players on the table say? Seems to me that their opinions should hold more weight.

Actually no they dont hold more weight.

The people who pay the money who make everything we do possible hold the most weight. I pay a lot of attention to what the players say they want but at the end of the day if the fans dont buy it doesn't really matter what they want.
 
It's not so much the pocket size that matters. It's how much the cloth is worn in. If the cloth is well worn in, that table is going to play hard even on 4.25 pockets.
 

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
Justin:

There's more to this than just the "size" of the pockets. You probably notice the other banter going on the threads about the other aspects of tightening the pockets, namely whether or not the pockets should have a deep shelf.

Personally, I think if the pocket apertures are tightened, there is less need for a deep shelf. I can understand the need for a deep shelf on a loose pocket so that e.g. it helps to limit slop on shots down the rail -- if the object ball touches the cushion on the way down, depending on how far up the cushion the object ball touches -- that ball should not score.

But if one is accurate enough to nail a tightened pocket "right between the eyes" (i.e. right between the two "points" of the pocket), I think the ball should score. I just don't "get" all this bragging about "deep pocket shelves" that is going on in that other thread.

I vote to keep the smaller pocket aperture -- but do it in a way that doesn't punish a player accurate enough to "nail" that pocket (i.e. as the pocket aperture tightens, there is less and less need for a deep shelf).

-Sean
 

JCIN

TheActionReport.com
Gold Member
Agreed. If they aren't happy with it, those would be the most important votes

I disagree.

Without customers there are no TAR matches. Thus no chance for a player to even have an opinion on the conditions. With more customers they play for more money. Players like money more than they like having every little detail the way they want it. Also what they say they want and what they really mean are not always the same thing.

I dont really want to get into a debate over customers vs players opinions as frankly I already know how much weight I give to each and no one is going to change my mind. Just looking for feedback from customers on what they want to see in the future.
 

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
OK

I see your point, I was under the assumption that the players themselves, put up money for the event too.

Actually no they dont hold more weight.

The people who pay the money who make everything we do possible hold the most weight. I pay a lot of attention to what the players say they want but at the end of the day if the fans dont buy it doesn't really matter what they want.
 
I disagree.

Without customers there are no TAR matches. Thus no chance for a player to even have an opinion on the conditions. With more customers they play for more money. Players like money more than they like having every little detail the way they want it. Also what they say they want and what they really mean are not always the same thing.

I dont really want to get into a debate over customers vs players opinions as frankly I already know how much weight I give to each and no one is going to change my mind. Just looking for feedback from customers on what they want to see in the future.

Have you thought about distributing a survey that would ask what players we would like to see most, what games, what format, what rules?
 

JCIN

TheActionReport.com
Gold Member
Justin:

There's more to this than just the "size" of the pockets. You probably notice the other banter going on the threads about the other aspects of tightening the pockets, namely whether or not the pockets should have a deep shelf.

Personally, I think if the pocket apertures are tightened, there is less need for a deep shelf. I can understand the need for a deep shelf on a loose pocket so that e.g. it helps to limit slop on shots down the rail -- if the object ball touches the cushion on the way down, depending on how far up the cushion the object ball touches -- that ball should not score.

But if one is accurate enough to nail a tightened pocket "right between the eyes" (i.e. right between the two "points" of the pocket), I think the ball should score. I just don't "get" all this bragging about "deep pocket shelves" that is going on in that other thread.

I vote to keep the smaller pocket aperture -- but do it in a way that doesn't punish a player accurate enough to "nail" that pocket (i.e. as the pocket aperture tightens, there is less and less need for a deep shelf).

-Sean

Only two options I am working with are what we have now (4 1/8) and standard pockets (4 1/2).

Not getting into pocket geometry or shelf depth or the radius of the square inverse of Glen's inseam. Thats why I started this thread instead of jumping in the others.
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
I disagree.

Without customers there are no TAR matches. Thus no chance for a player to even have an opinion on the conditions. With more customers they play for more money. Players like money more than they like having every little detail the way they want it. Also what they say they want and what they really mean are not always the same thing.

I dont really want to get into a debate over customers vs players opinions as frankly I already know how much weight I give to each and no one is going to change my mind. Just looking for feedback from customers on what they want to see in the future.


I had clicked my agreement before your response above, and I agree with you, certainly. If the customers are turned off, that affects the bottom line, which is the point of the thing in the first place. Job #1. Good on you for being proactive in trying to address these concerns with your customer base.

Still, it might give some of the more vocal detractors more to stew on if they knew that the players enjoy the challenge, assuming that they do. To me, I think it's cool that you are getting some of the best players in the world to match up, in a controlled environment with no outside distractions and is comfortable, and they know going in that it's going to be a challenge to play their best.
 

SakuJack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I vote to keep them as they are. The table is obviously very, very tough, but that's what I like about watching TAR matches. Packages are fun, but what makes them special is when they're done on super tight equipment. As long as the table is fair, which I think it is, then it should stay as is.
 
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