Sight plane/picture opposite dominante eye

Electech

Electech

on the b train again....
Silver Member
Okay hopefully this is conveyed where it can be understood. My wife started playing about 2 years ago. She is right handed, right eye dominate and her cue was normally just to the right of her chin center. Just found out last month that her sight picture/plane is under her left eye. She has been trying to adjust since.

The setting up a cue and three balls on the table helped determine what was the correct sight picture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKoMZrg1MAg


Seems the muscle memory from the last two years is fighting her new sight alignment and she is getting frustrated. The entire alignment of her body has had to change to accommodate the cue position under the body.

Any experience with this sort of thing? I haven't been able to find anything for reference on aiming on the other side of your dominant eye. Not looking for a 5 minute solution just wondering if anyone else has seen or had this before and how they handled it.

Thanks!

MSS
 
Why the need to change?

My belief is if someone can run 4-5 balls regularly, they know how to aim, but may not have the proper practice program to identify their weakness, design a practice proper plan to improve.

No offense, but playing 2 years is meaningless. It is hours at the table that matter, not the calendar time.

More people would improve if they just knew how to practice properly. I see it everyday, those that just roll 9 balls on the table and hit away.

Seldom if ever, do I see anyone, at least where I play, do any real practice. Such as doing nothing but banks. Roll one ball on the table and bank it, one or more rails and do this for at least a hour.

Or practice kicks. And so on. They lack discipline to practice properly and getting lessons is not the same thing.

I recently went back to tight pockets tables. I just do single ball drills mostly right now. Meaning a set up one shot over and over again into the same pocket. Get tired of that shot move to another. I vary as much as I can about the shot,...speed, spin used and so on through the course of that particular pocket drill. Boring.......some think so and from the outside it would appear so. But for me, it's not. Every shot to the pocket, hit or miss, I learn something. I gain knowledge to use else where. Doing the same shot over and over helps to feel the difference between how I did each shot.

Change to just change is not always a good change.
 
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Electech said:
Okay hopefully this is conveyed where it can be understood. My wife started playing about 2 years ago. She is right handed, right eye dominate and her cue was normally just to the right of her chin center. Just found out last month that her sight picture/plane is under her left eye. She has been trying to adjust since.

The setting up a cue and three balls on the table helped determine what was the correct sight picture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKoMZrg1MAg


Seems the muscle memory from the last two years is fighting her new sight alignment and she is getting frustrated. The entire alignment of her body has had to change to accommodate the cue position under the body.

Any experience with this sort of thing? I haven't been able to find anything for reference on aiming on the other side of your dominant eye. Not looking for a 5 minute solution just wondering if anyone else has seen or had this before and how they handled it.

Thanks!

MSS
Click to expand...

The key is sighting and focusing with the left eye while standing
 
I too not long ago found that I had become 'left eye dominant'

Once she sees the shot line in the standing position, have her look at only the object ball as she goes into the shooting position from the standing position. Then only after down & set give a look to the cue ball & then trust that look of the shot line. It may look wrong to her when down but try trusting it. The reason is some of us will see the line from above with one eye being 'dominant' but we will see it with the other eye when looking out down the line of the cue from the shooting position. If we look at the CB as we go down we have basically lost the line & will then use the eye that does not see the line correctly to reestablish the shot line & it can then be incorrect.

I would suggest getting Gene Albreigts DVD 'Perfect Aim'. It is not really an aiming method but more about how our eyes work & how to see the line correctly.

This method my not be comfortable at first. It was not comfortable for me as I had always gotten down & then picked the exact line looking from the CB to the OB. The new method is sort of reverse going from the OB back to the CB.

I've found that turning the head just a bit to the right, not tilting it, but just turning it slightly to the right has helped me to maintain seeing the line more with my left eye even if I don't look only at the OB as I go down. I try to always go down looking at only the OB but sometimes my ingrained method of 47 years creeps back in during the actual playing of the game & I am not one that likes to get back up. So, I devised the turning of the head to ensure that I use my left eye to see the line. It has work fairly well.

I wish her luck in finding her solution.
Rick
 
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I experimented with what you are talking about several times.. I find that I can sight down the cue and seem to have a better ability to "aim my cue" with the cue more under the left part of my chin, but my ability to aim one ball into another is better to the right of my chin..
 
thuMper9mm said:
I experimented with what you are talking about several times.. I find that I can sight down the cue and seem to have a better ability to "aim my cue" with the cue more under the left part of my chin, but my ability to aim one ball into another is better to the right of my chin..
Click to expand...
Try the vision center drills. They might help you lock in your best personal head position for playing pool.

Regards,
Dave
 
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I respectfully disagree that the key is focusing with the left eye while standing. PM me for more. And I certainly recommend Dave's drills.
 
BilliardsAbout said:
I respectfully disagree that the key is focusing with the left eye while standing. PM me for more. And I certainly recommend Dave's drills.
Click to expand...

Matt,

Why in PM? There are more than one such of us out here.

Anyway, I might understand why.

So, if you have something good, please PM me with it.

Thanks in advance,
Rick

PS When standing tall over the table it is my left eye that is seeing the straight line. My right eye sees it when looking straight out but not from a shewed position.
 
The key is to not favour one eye over the other. That's the real key. You want to sight the shot when standing with the vision centre behind the line of aim, and keep it on this line whilst getting down and then position the cue underneath your vision centre.

The whole dominant eye theory is very misleading and gets a lot of people into trouble. If, like me a player has one eye more dominant than the other it is the easy way out to say sight with this dominant eye. It doesn't work that easy for most, after all, the less dominant eye does have a part to play in painting the correct picture.
 
Pidge said:
The key is to not favour one eye over the other. That's the real key. You want to sight the shot when standing with the vision centre behind the line of aim, and keep it on this line whilst getting down and then position the cue underneath your vision centre.

The whole dominant eye theory is very misleading and gets a lot of people into trouble. If, like me a player has one eye more dominant than the other it is the easy way out to say sight with this dominant eye. It doesn't work that easy for most, after all, the less dominant eye does have a part to play in painting the correct picture.
Click to expand...

All I can say is that I now have a manual method to better see a true straight line after talking to Gene with his Perfect Aim understanding & methods. I'd recommend him to everyone, even if just to confirm that they are seeing correctly... for pool.

That said, yes, you are correct. We still need both eyes for depth perception & spacial awareness.
 
Okay, so no PM. I don't think it's vision center either.

To walk into an object with accuracy, the way you might stand back from a table and walk into the shot line, you would neither close one eye nor center vision center over the line. As a matter of fact, when you walk toward, say, the entrance of the grocery store...

...Someone "working on" envisioning the upcoming shot should stand on the line to assess, before bending down/into the shot. Chin on the line, head neither tilted nor rotated. Both eyes wide open. :)

Bear in mind, of course, that some players stand on the "full line" to begin, some on the contact-to-contact point line, some on the CTE line, whatever. But even players with poor or even no vision in one eye--if you have them do a vision center drill, will stand with their chin on the line to begin.

Why the bother about all this? Because a lot of players put the cue down on the line and stand to one side of their shot when they assess the line. A very bad habit IMHO.

...And by walking into the grocery store, I'm referring to the absolute ease with which we can move our body towards our target with an untilted, un-rotated head with both eyes open. Yes, you will eventually center your VC above the line, but while considering and ASSESSING the shot... while standing tall at the table...

...Here come the flames! :)
 
I'm right handed and place the cue under my left eye and I have astigmatism in both of my eyes and it has gotten worse here in the past few years. As previously stated, I too, turn my head just a touch to see better period.

OP, does your wife wear glasses?
 
BilliardsAbout said:
Okay, so no PM. I don't think it's vision center either.

To walk into an object with accuracy, the way you might stand back from a table and walk into the shot line, you would neither close one eye nor center vision center over the line. As a matter of fact, when you walk toward, say, the entrance of the grocery store...

...Someone "working on" envisioning the upcoming shot should stand on the line to assess, before bending down/into the shot. Chin on the line, head neither tilted nor rotated. Both eyes wide open. :)

Bear in mind, of course, that some players stand on the "full line" to begin, some on the contact-to-contact point line, some on the CTE line, whatever. But even players with poor or even no vision in one eye--if you have them do a vision center drill, will stand with their chin on the line to begin.

Why the bother about all this? Because a lot of players put the cue down on the line and stand to one side of their shot when they assess the line. A very bad habit IMHO.

...And by walking into the grocery store, I'm referring to the absolute ease with which we can move our body towards our target with an untilted, un-rotated head with both eyes open. Yes, you will eventually center your VC above the line, but while considering and ASSESSING the shot... while standing tall at the table...

...Here come the flames! :)
Click to expand...

Matt,

I won't go into my rather long story but I'll just say that Gene showed me beyond any doubt that when standing tall as you say, I am now seeing a true straight line with my left eye & if I use my right eye I see a straight line a crooked.

That was the cause of me beginning to have a miss pop up that simply should not have been & I eventually noticed that they were more in one direction. Gene actually contacted me when he saw me relaying my issues here.

Vision center is a relatively newly coined phrase that might incorrectly imply to some that it is the center between the eyes if one places the 'center' on the line there, that does NOT mean that one will see the line properly.

The brain interprets the vision. The image is actually up side down just as it is in a camera. NASA did experiments with goggles that inverted the image & over time the brain righted it & when the goggles were removed the individuals saw up side down with no goggles & over time the brain again righted the image.

We can 'see' with one eye or the other & see a true straight line with a different eye depending on our orientation to that line.

It may look like I meant to trap you or something but I think you know that that is not the case. I was just very interested to see what you had in mind. You could have PMd me.

I do agree with much of what you say like about a tilted head. Getting a batter's eyes level instead of tilted is one of the most simple of coaching 'suggestions' that get the most immediate improvement.

We walk around & 'work' with our eyes level nearly all day every day & that is the best orientation for which to see properly

Best 2 Ya, Matt.

PS As I've said, I would recommend Gene's Perfect Aim to everyone.
 
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ENGLISH! said:
All I can say is that I now have a manual method to better see a true straight line after talking to Gene with his Perfect Aim understanding & methods. I'd recommend him to everyone, even if just to confirm that they are seeing correctly... for pool.

That said, yes, you are correct. We still need both eyes for depth perception & spacial awareness.
Click to expand...
Gene hasn't stumbled across anything new, he just explains it better than some. I think he puts a lot of people that could benefit from time with him because of the way he hypes perfect aim up. Admittedly, sighting the line of aim and being able to sight through centre ball correctly is IMO the most important part of the game so I can understand why he feels what he does is so good, but it isn't anything new.

We don't need both eyes just for depth perception and spacial awareness in pool. We need both eyes to see a straight line as straight. If this wasn't the case I would have the cue directly under my left eye as I'm left eye dominant. But I don't. For me, I have to have it fairly central but just slightly favouring the left side of my chin. Beneath my eyes when down it would be right between the tear duct of my left eye, maybe closer to between both eyes. If I close my right eye when down, the picture doesn't look right to make the shot. But with both eyes open it looks correct. This means my right eye does have a part to play with determining straight lines.

Again, I have nothing but respect for what Gene teaches.
 
ENGLISH! said:
Vision center is a relatively newly coined phrase that implies centered between the eyes if one places the 'center' on the line there, that does NOT mean that one will see the line properly.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what you mean here, but it sounds wrong to me. Read and watch the stuff on the vision center resource page more carefully. A person's "vision center" position is the head position that allows that individual to see a center-ball, straight-in shot as straight, with the tip appearing to be at the center of the CB. For some people, this might be with the cue under their dominant eye (e.g., if they have strong eye dominance or vision impairment in one eye). For others, it might be with the cue under their nose, or somewhere else between (or even outside of) their eyes. Everybody's "vision center" position can be different.

Regards,
Dave
 
Pidge said:
Gene hasn't stumbled across anything new, he just explains it better than some. I think he puts a lot of people that could benefit from time with him because of the way he hypes perfect aim up. Admittedly, sighting the line of aim and being able to sight through centre ball correctly is IMO the most important part of the game so I can understand why he feels what he does is so good, but it isn't anything new.

We don't need both eyes just for depth perception and spacial awareness in pool. We need both eyes to see a straight line as straight. If this wasn't the case I would have the cue directly under my left eye as I'm left eye dominant. But I don't. For me, I have to have it fairly central but just slightly favouring the left side of my chin. Beneath my eyes when down it would be right between the tear duct of my left eye, maybe closer to between both eyes. If I close my right eye when down, the picture doesn't look right to make the shot. But with both eyes open it looks correct. This means my right eye does have a part to play with determining straight lines.

Again, I have nothing but respect for what Gene teaches.
Click to expand...

Pidge,


The only issue I have with what you wrote is what I put in blue.

One can see a straight line with one eye & does not need both eyes to see a straight line.

I understand your situation & mine may be similar but also a bit different.

I have to take my right eye out of use as much as I can.

I've done the close one eye testing too. If I go down onto a straight shot my old way the shot looks correct with both eyes open, but when I close my left eye the shot looks & is wrong. That never use to be & that is why I thought for most of my life that I was right eye dominant.

If I follow Gene's manual prescription my left eye stays 'dominant'.

If in the heat of competition if I fall back to my old method & catch myself, all I do is turn my head clockwise & the left eye gets 'dominant' & I adjust the cue.

I will be honest, I am very amazed at how well I played IF this issue was present & not known to me. The Human Mind is an amazing Entity.

I think Gene might know a bit more than you give him credit. Some of what he knows may not be new but he has put in a lot of study & knows a a lot about it.

Best 2 Ya.
 
ENGLISH! said:
Pidge,


The only issue I have with what you wrote is what I put in blue.

One can see a straight line with one eye & does not need both eyes to see a straight line.

I understand your situation & mine may be similar but also a bit different.

I have to take my right eye out of use as much as I can.

I've done the close one eye testing too. If I go down onto a straight shot my old way the shot looks correct with both eyes open, but when I close my left eye the shot looks & is wrong. That never use to be & that is why I thought for most of my life that I was right eye dominant.

If I follow Gene's manual prescription my left eye stays 'dominant'.

If in the heat of competition if I fall back to my old method & catch myself, all I do is turn my head clockwise & the left eye gets 'dominant' & I adjust the cue.

I will be honest, I am very amazed at how well I played IF this issue was present & not known to me. The Human Mind is an amazing Entity.

I think Gene might know a bit more than you give him credit. Some of what he knows may not be new but he has put in a lot of study & knows a a lot about it.

Best 2 Ya.
Click to expand...
OK, a simple test I did was to close one eye.. My less dominant eye and pick the line of aim, get down with this eye still closed then open the eye. Did the shot look right? No, absolutely not. I did this countless times and each time tried to make the pot and each time I missed because I hit with either too much unintentional side or my alignment for the shot was way off. This was enough proof for me that I need both eyes to view the line of aim... Which is a straight line.
 
dr_dave said:
I'm not sure what you mean here, but it sounds wrong to me. Read and watch the stuff on the vision center resource page more carefully. A person's "vision center" position is the head position that allows that individual to see a center-ball, straight-in shot as straight, with the tip appearing to be at the center of the CB. For some people, this might be with the cue under their dominant eye (e.g., if they have strong eye dominance or vision impairment in one eye). For others, it might be with the cue under their nose, or somewhere else between (or even outside of) their eyes. Everybody's "vision center" position can be different.

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

Dave,

I typed it wrong.

What I meant to say was that the phrase might imply to some.

I was not stating what the phrase has been defined as.

Sorry. I'll go back & correct that.

Thanks.

Regards.
 
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Pidge said:
OK, a simple test I did was to close one eye.. My less dominant eye and pick the line of aim, get down with this eye still closed then open the eye. Did the shot look right? No, absolutely not. I did this countless times and each time tried to make the pot and each time I missed because I hit with either too much unintentional side or my alignment for the shot was way off. This was enough proof for me that I need both eyes to view the line of aim... Which is a straight line.
Click to expand...

Well I don't know what to say about that other than I guess you do.

Was it a straight shot?

I can close either eye & set the cue on the line once done, but from above the shot, my right does not see it correctly.

By what you say, if universal, then a person with only one eye would not be able to use a rifle with any accuracy & I don't think that is the case.

Best Wishes.
 
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