Simonis 760 vs 860

mullyman

mullyman

Hung Like a Gnat!
Silver Member
Just wondering what the "Hundred ball runners" around here think about this. I primarily play on Brunswick tables, either Metro's or Gold Crown's, with Simonis 760 cloth. Personally, on the breaks I like how easily the balls move out of the rack with even a light touch. With that said, tiny position plays are a pain in the ass and extremely tough on that fast cloth. Especially if you're going to be bumping off of the end rail. On some shots it's almost impossible to stop the cue ball before going above the bottom of the rack line using the speed it takes to get the OB to the pocket.....imagine having a 30 degree angle or so cutting a ball from the center of the bottom rail. The CB isn't going to stop below the rack.

Last night, for some reason, I played on one of the tables that is set up with Simonis 860. My God what a huge difference it makes. My position play was a little off on some shots because I didn't hit the ball hard enough, which would have been plenty or more on the 760, but overall when I was in the rack area working around things it was so much easier to control the CB. It was so much easier to control the patterns. And, I have to admit, I liked the little extra stroke I could put into the break shots without the CB sliding off course and bumping off a tit.

So, you hundred ball runners, or anyone else for that matter, what's your opinion on the 760 vs the 860 for straight pool?
MULLY
Sorry, in 9-ball I gotta stay with the 760. I don't like having to power my shots in 9-ball.
 
mjantti said:
I think 860 for every game. Cueball control over everything for me.
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Yeah, but I find in 9-ball I have much more control on 760. I guess because that's what I grew up playing on. When I cut a ball up the rail and need to come all the way back down table I don't like have to muscle it. Or if I need to get a long follow or draw I want to be able to hit it with a nice medium, controlled stroke. The 760 allows that. Now that I've played a game of straight pool on 860 I don't think I'll go back to the 760 for that particular game.
MULLY
 
& 760 is for big tables on small tables it's like an ice skating rink, you have to hit soft or shorten your stroke deppending on the angle your shooting. 860 plays alot slower in the last 5 years easier to control your cueball.

If they use 760 in tournaments for a few years I bet everyone would complain about 860 being to slow. People that play on rugs dont like worseted wool cloth balls rolls to much, people playing from worseted to rugs cant get the shape they wanted it to slow. LIsten to all the bar 7-8ft table players going to a poolhall 9' table worseted they all hate it to big to fast pockets are smaller or dont take the ball right.

I think it boils down to what we grow up on and what we play on the most as to what plays the best for each of us.

Craig
 
& 760 is for big tables on small tables it's like an ice skating rink, you have to hit soft or shorten your stroke deppending on the angle your shooting. 860 plays alot slower in the last 5 years easier to control your cueball.

If they use 760 in tournaments for a few years I bet everyone would complain about 860 being to slow. People that play on rugs dont like worseted wool cloth balls rolls to much, people playing from worseted to rugs cant get the shape they wanted it to slow. LIsten to all the bar 7-8ft table players going to a poolhall 9' table worseted they all hate it to big to fast pockets are smaller or dont take the ball right.

I think it boils down to what we grow up on and what we play on the most as to what plays the best for each of us.

Craig
 
Mully, I like fast cloth, but I think you're right about too fast getting out of control. I think 860 is a nice balance from what I recall from a couple of years ago playing on it.
 
n10spool said:
I think it boils down to what we grow up on and what we play on the most as to what plays the best for each of us.

Craig
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Yeah, agreed with this and with Mully. I've played on 860 for most of the time. A brand new 760 is annoyingly fast and slippery while a new 860 is close to perfection... at least for me :)
 
I feel 760 should be on billiard tables!:D

personally I play best on slow cloth where I can let my stroke out....thats what I grew up on.....GCI with Mali cloth. 860 is fine for all games, but I actually think most folks would play better on slower cloth....after the adjustment period. Being able to slug the ball a little just helps my stroke for some reason?
 
Hi mullyman,

We have 760 on our eight GC3's at Classic Billiards. Playing nine ball and 14.1 on the same cloth is an adventure. I would guess the nine ball guys like 860 better. Years ago we played on Gandy "Big G's" with Grenada:confused: ) cloth. Thats as fast as I ever remember a playing condition. I'll take 760 every time. What are the 14.1 World's going to be played on?

The rack opens much easier with less power (more control) on the break. Opening the rack by "bumping" balls to the side pockets is much easier. On the other hand, divits in the cloth affect the playing surface more than 860. I find the cueball "skids" far more. Although our problem is more mismatched cueball / object ball related. Years ago the management removed the centennials and replaced them with lower level Aramyths.

Incidentally, The Las Vegas Cue Club recovered its snooker table with 760 in April. When we finished the table, most of the regulars were thrilled with the "speed". Most of the play is "Golf" not snooker.

Lyn
 
cardiac kid said:
Hi mullyman,

We have 760 on our eight GC3's at Classic Billiards. Playing nine ball and 14.1 on the same cloth is an adventure. I would guess the nine ball guys like 860 better. Years ago we played on Gandy "Big G's" with Grenada:confused: ) cloth. Thats as fast as I ever remember a playing condition. I'll take 760 every time. What are the 14.1 World's going to be played on?

The rack opens much easier with less power (more control) on the break. Opening the rack by "bumping" balls to the side pockets is much easier. On the other hand, divits in the cloth affect the playing surface more than 860. I find the cueball "skids" far more. Although our problem is more mismatched cueball / object ball related. Years ago the management removed the centennials and replaced them with lower level Aramyths.

Incidentally, The Las Vegas Cue Club recovered its snooker table with 760 in April. When we finished the table, most of the regulars were thrilled with the "speed". Most of the play is "Golf" not snooker.

Lyn
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you are all right. the 760 is better for 14.1. i have a pretty delicate stroke and the 860 is hard to hold any type of draw without it slideing to far or making you go to a rail and out for position.those tables at classic are perferct for 14.1 lyn. your lucky to have them!
oh!! congrats on your high run! i know you will hit 200 one of these days up there! i know i could taste one comming but had to come home! i pray that i get just one more 200-300 before i kick it! ill be up in oct. for 3 wks. maby we can inspire eachother to a big run! send me you email again. i moved and had to leave my computer there. oh....my new addy is ehowey@tampabay.rr.com glad your playing so well and good luck at turning stone! pat
oh! my last cat scan showed a 30%reduction in the tumor and no matastization!!! i feel great!
 
I, too, have to agree to 760 for 14.1. I have 860 on my Diamond Pro using Cenntenial balls but, have brand new 760 ready for installation.
When playing on the present 860, I find the balls are very reluctant to part with what I consider good straight pool speed. I sometimes chuckle when I watch old Accustats tapes or recents videos of the DCC challenge table; the speed used, and the breakshot angles often sought would never sufficiently open balls on my table. Plus, the tight Diamond pockets are a real challenge when balls need to be hit so firmly - accuracy just goes out the window.
Frankly, I can't wait to get the 760 installed, the present conditions are killing my confidence.
 
rikdee said:
I, too, have to agree to 760 for 14.1. I have 860 on my Diamond Pro using Cenntenial balls but, have brand new 760 ready for installation.......Frankly, I can't wait to get the 760 installed, the present conditions are killing my confidence.
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Hi rikdee,

When can I visit your home:D ? You're a lucky man. The only Diamond Pro's are on a local college campus:eek: . To the best of my knowledge, there are none in a billiard room in Upstate New York.

Lyn
 
I've had the table for ten years but I must say it has been a love-hate relationship. For the twenty years prior, I owned and lovingly restored a GCI. The Diamond is miles more challenging or perhaps but a comment on my skill level....

_Rick
 
This one particular pool hall that I go to once a week for a local tournament has a worn out 760, very slippery with pinball like fast rails...the tables are so fast, they can almost be compared with heated carom tables. Don't like it, but the man's gotta do what a man's gotta do...adjust as quickly as possible!
 
predator said:
This one particular pool hall that I go to once a week for a local tournament has a worn out 760, very slippery with pinball like fast rails...the tables are so fast, they can almost be compared with heated carom tables. Don't like it, but the man's gotta do what a man's gotta do...adjust as quickly as possible!
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If you shoot straight up and down the table, can you hit the far cushion three times? How about the near cushion?
 
predator said:
This one particular pool hall that I go to once a week for a local tournament has a worn out 760, very slippery with pinball like fast rails...the tables are so fast, they can almost be compared with heated carom tables. Don't like it, but the man's gotta do what a man's gotta do...adjust as quickly as possible!
Click to expand...


I have seen this type of cushion action from the Brunswick "Knock Off" tables made overseas. They use some real crazy gum rubber. You can hit into the rail, go to lunch, come back and the ball is going faster than when ya left. :)
 
Bob Jewett said:
If you shoot straight up and down the table, can you hit the far cushion three times? How about the near cushion?
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I think so, yes. Yesterday I went there again, but there was a surprise. Seems like the club owner changed the cloth to something called Z9. This completely changed how the table plays, in a good way. Feels like 860 to me.
 
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