Simonis Heads Up
- Thread starter Dartman
- Start date
Thats because I have almost 40 years of experience working on pool tables, I'm very well aware of what makes a pool table play the way it does, or don't. How many years have YOU spent doing your research about how a table plays?
Curiously enough I own something that can measure that too, one of these :True, it also can't tell the difference in the stretch of the cloth from 1 table to the next, and cloth speed can vary between who installs it
Dave <-- collects measurement devices and knows their use, their limitations and how other factors influence the measurement
In the article you quoted about table speed, was their one word mentioned about rail bolt tightness? Nope, nanda, so even that article is off base, filled with more opinion than facts!!
That's a great toy, but not all installers can install the cloth as tight as I can, because they just don't have the strength I do, so to set a stretching requirement that others can accomplish....what good is that toy?
Nice try though
And, there's no way to hook that scale up to the cloth in 2 locations at the same time, pulling in 2 different directions simultaneously. THEN it only reads up to 100lbs of tension, when I stretch end to end on the cloth, I guarantee you I'm stretching way more than 100Lbs of effort
I get a kick out of non-mechaincs trying to explain how to check a pool tables speed, and play ability! They have no idea the effects of different cushions, different rail thicknesses, and SIMONIS CLOTH,....which Simonis cloth were they referring to, there's 860, 860HR, 760... blue, green, they all play differently! No mention of the effects of loose rail bolts, or how the end to end level of the slate effects table speed as well! So just consider this article somewhat of a guideline, because its no all that accurate!!!All these opinions ... it's an easy thing to measure. One page that discusses how:
Pool Table Stimpmeter - Billiards and Pool Principles, Techniques, Resources
Joe Waldron*Pocket Billiards ReviewJanuary 09 Table speed is important when a player goes from one table to another. The balls, the rails, the cloth, ambient temperature, humidity, as well as the cleanliness of the balls affect the table’s speed or the way in which the balls roll today. At times...billiards.colostate.edu
Not that I care a lot but real numbers might be interesting.
Dave
AND, there's no conversation about the balance between rail speed and playing surface speed, working together, do they NOT know about that?All these opinions ... it's an easy thing to measure. One page that discusses how:
Pool Table Stimpmeter - Billiards and Pool Principles, Techniques, Resources
Joe Waldron*Pocket Billiards ReviewJanuary 09 Table speed is important when a player goes from one table to another. The balls, the rails, the cloth, ambient temperature, humidity, as well as the cleanliness of the balls affect the table’s speed or the way in which the balls roll today. At times...
Not that I care a lot but real numbers might be interesting.
Dave
Don't get butt hurt because I know what I'm talking about whereas you don't!
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I know those damn pool tables have caused me all sorts of trouble. I wouldn't lose nearly as often if I stayed 30 feet from them!
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I'll bite! In your opinion (based on a hell of a lot of professional experience) what is the best playing cloth (color too) when installed correctly? You got me curious.
Believe it or not, the new cloth Simonis and I are about to come out with. Its almost identical to the Stevens 22oz superweave cloth the world played on up to the mid 80's. Not to be mistaken for the Mali thick weave cloth of that time frame, or the CharlesHouse, Forrester, or any other cloth from that era. Stevens cloth was the high end woven woolen 80/20 wool/nylon blended cloth that most higher end pool rooms used from the early 50's up until Mali bought Forrester, who had bought Stevens.I'll bite! In your opinion (based on a hell of a lot of professional experience) what is the best playing cloth (color too) when installed correctly? You got me curious.
But to all those that think they know something about the cloth from the past, its NOT the think napped cloth they're referring to, and its a lot more player friendly. Spin is much easier to perform, with 50% less effort required on Simonis 860HR, which means you shoot softer, yet get the same results. Its not a pity pat cloth, because you have to shoot a little harder to get the distance you want, because it don't have that continuous roll to the balls like Simonis 860HR has, yet it supports the player with the stroke required to keep the cue ball in check.
Its hard to explain, but easy to see the difference when playing on it.
And its available in Tour Blue, which is the best color for seeing the balls, and for the least amount of friction.
And cost is about 50% or more LESS than Simonis 860HR
Does it have a name or designation yet?
Strachan Superweave
Made by the world renowned snooker cloth manufacturer , Strachan, and still owned by Simonis!!
They've been making snooker and pool cloth for over 100 years.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I'm very intrigued! I have a few more years on the HR I'm sure but this sounds like fun cloth. I'll probably go this route once my cloth needs some replacing. It's funny because they say HR will last 10 years with normal residential use. My cloth is about 1.5 years old and while it still plays like new, I'm thinking 4-5 years would be tops for the use it gets. We don't baby the cloth, just keep it clean. It sees masse, jumps, etc, often preformed by friends without proper technique. My friend has HR on his table and it's about the same age as mine, but it's got 2-3x the wear on it. It gets an absolute crapload of play on it though, I'd guess on a good week it sees 30 hours of hard play. It's nothing against the cloth at all, it still plays wonderfully! 20+ hours play on an average week is more than a lot of tables in pool halls see in a week.
I can tell you this for sure, over the last 39 years working on pool tables in the commercial industry, I've seen a lot of changes take place, some good, some bad.
But one of the most impacts I've seen is the cost of cloth going sky high, and because of that, pool room owners as well as bar owners going way to long before replacing the cloth on their tables, seriously effecting the playability and attraction to play on pool tables with cloth clearly worn out. This is not a good thing for this industry when it comes to attracting players to pay the higher rates to play pool.
Then, all the other cloth manufacturers following in the footsteps of Simonis, coming out with THEIR worsted woolen cloth, "just as good as, but cheaper than Simonis just to secure their place in the market as well, everyone is after those sales dollars!!
Because of the cloth wars so to speak, there has been a Domino's effect such as jump cues, faster and faster cloth, higher and higher costs of changing cloth, which cloth should I buy, the whole chain reaction.
Before the worsted woolen cloths hit the market, there was no such thing as jump cues, because you could make a jump shot with your playing cue, no problem.
Today, I swear every player I see playing on a league has a jump cue, and just can't wait to use it, but can't run 3 balls in a row, can't draw the cue back, and have all learned to pity pat the cue ball around the table because the cloth is so damn fast! It's getting to the point that its damn near impossible to level a table anymore because the cloth is so sensitive to ball roll, or grain tracking!
Pool has changed so much, and in my opinion, not for the good of the sport, but rather for the good of the market place sellers!!! This sport has turned into a sales platform for everyone selling anything to do with pool, to the point that those sales platforms could give a shit less about the sport, because if they DID care, they'd be taking a portion of their sales profits and kicking them back into the support of this sport, but they don't, unless it's to sponsor players in the hopes of using those players to create more sales!!!
Its my intentions to do what's right for the sport, not what's best for those that feed off of it!!!
Here's something to think about, just to name a few, Is Proctor and Gamble spent $4.28B in advertising dollars in 2019, $300M less than in 2018, Yum Brands foods spends $500M a year and Gieco Insurance spends $2B a year in advertising....and not $1.00 of that advertising money spend was directed at this sport! Why?, because it has no organization, no leadership what so ever, and THAT'S the only reason it has never has sponsors on board....has NOTHING to do with it being the sport of pool, like it has such a bad reputation! Boxing has had a bad reputation for ever, yet the sponsors jump on board with it, no problem! But BOXING has leadership and organization!!!
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Pool's "image" isn't the problem, you're right! There is literally a billion dollar sport called MMA where guys beat each other into a bloody pulp. An entire industry has formed around it, from protein shakes to clothing. Pool has no image problem, and for all the people wringing their hands worrying about the "shady" in pool, get a frickin' grip. No one cares if pool players drink, swear, gamble, etc. It's that image that should be courted if they want pool to be "viral." Now this isn't everything, sure you need nice family establishments without all the "shade" but believing shady stuff is somehow damaging pool is ridiculous. How many quarters/table time is spent by those terrible beer drinkers in league? I know there are many establishments that cater to pool players that would never survive without these shady folks giving them patronage.
I guess the thing I'm getting at is, you're right, pool doesn't have an image problem, it has an organization problem. Do you think Budweiser would turn down sponsoring pool if it were easy for them to just throw advertising money at a well organized entity that could pull off the legwork? They brew beer, not in the business of being a league operator. They would also benefit directly from increased sales at such events. Sponsors need to see money coming directly from the events, you have this figured out. Good luck with your endeavors, I hope everything works well!