I am aware of the geometric inaccuracy, it should not work, but it does. Maybe I subconsciously adjust? For me, the parallel line thing is shooting into thin air. I do better with concrete points to shoot from and to. Thanks.
Simple aiming system
- Thread starter Mensabum
- Start date
If you actually pocket balls such as the 2 ball in the diagram, you must be adjusting. The OP system says to hit the 2 ball about half ball. That's much, much too full.
I think this system is so bad that anyone who has success with it has actually let their subconscious (some might say feel) take over their aiming. The problem I see is that when a shot is very important the player may be very careful about consciously implementing the system exactly as specified. That guarantees they will drive any slightly difficult cut shot straight into the bumper.
I have talked to Mensabum a good bit. I have wondered if the mensa part is true, might be. What is certainly true from the people he played, he had a very respectable game of pool before taking a break for a few decades like a lot of us.
I have been here almost twenty years. I have yet to see an aiming system that didn't need adjustments by feel on some shots and I don't think I ever will. More properly called semi-masse but I "pinch" the cue ball a lot of times to either sneak around a small obstruction or improve the angle I hit the object ball a few degrees. Bob's ninety degree plus shot comes to mind. You get a few degrees because the pocket is wider than the cue ball, spin lets you curve into the object ball and get a few more degrees. Still a helluva shot, but I don't think anyone will ever make it purely using a system and nothing else.
Hu
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
If nothing else it allows one to accurately asses where the balls are on the table in relation to the pocket. Even if it doesn't work, the subconscious has been fed enough information that it will make the shot work.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Hellaflush: What It Is and Why It Is Hellabroken
A new trend has recently struck the motorhead community and the general public itself. In normal applications, the suspension of a vehicle is designed to provide a smooth and comfortable ride and have the vehicle at a normal height to avoid damage to the chassis or bumpers. Stance nation, most...
sjhexpress.com
Hellaflush: What It Is and Why It Is Hellabroken
A new trend has recently struck the motorhead community and the general public itself. In normal applications, the suspension of a vehicle is designed to provide a smooth and comfortable ride and have the vehicle at a normal height to avoid damage to the chassis or bumpers. Stance nation, most...sjhexpress.com
I bought a used car that had been drag raced and was jacked up in the rear and a bit more on one side than the other so that the back tires took equal load without a locked rear or some sort of limited slip mechanism.
Figured while I was working with the suspension I would lower the car, '69 Torino, all around. What a dummy idea! I had to stop and ease over painted lines in the road!
Negative camber can and does work with the right tires and suspension set up. We used it on stock cars. With the special tires we had 12.75" wide on the ground sitting still to meet the rules, 14.50" with about eight thousand pounds of load on the right front in the corners. A little something Goodyear Motorsports cooked up. Somehow, I don't think any of the hella set ups have the expertise of Goodyear engineers behind them.
Hu
snookered_again
Well-known member
I'm not sure if I'm missing the point or if this is just bad info and have been watching just the odd video , thinking, shooting and trying to sort some of it out inside the old noggin.
I came to the quite simple conclusion that if you draw lines through the shot, hit the CB perfectly on center , no spin, then the collision causes the OB and CB to spin. they will only continue to roll straight if the shot is dead straight. so take a half ball cut to the left as an example, that OB will spin to the left as will the CB because the collision causes them to.
well its not just the spin that is a concern here it it is the throw and I guess you call that cut induced throw.
that gives me basically 2 choices.
1 I hit the CB off to the right hand side to intentionally spin it , so that the impact of collision does not cause the OB to spin, that will cause it to roll true to the pocket.. this is called gearing.
2 I can compensate, I can change my point of aim from the center of the pocket to compensate for the cut induced throw < I dont know a name for that.
it was pointed out to me that the amount of throw will be different if the shot is harder or softer. adding some complication. It might explain why if I try to hit harder I suddnly start making shots, until it becomes a bit rediculous because I also loose control of the CB scratch and make a general fool of myself.
in reality I can make a lot of shots so I am probably compensating by some internal subconscious learned behavior and the word "rote" was used. I didn't understand the word so looked it up as:
noun: rote
mechanical or habitual repetition of something to be learned.
I'm trying to understand how the shot speed affects this cut induced throw and why it does.
If I apply spin to my CB to use gearing, in order to drive the OB in a straight line towards the pocket with no spin , then I'm increasing the speed that the CB will be spinning upon its impact with the first rail.
since I also want to control the CB and to use spin more effectively and predictably , it means I need to get a bit better at compensating in my aim,, compensating for the spin induced throw I'm creating.
for example I may want to spin the CB in the opposite direction of the natural gearing so to do that, I do need to get a better handle on how much I' m throwing the ball.. so that I can think properly about my aiming adjustment, to compensate for the spin induced throw.
if what I said above is sensible , and its missed by some, but well understood by the more experienced players , it kind of throws the lines we are looking at in the diagrams above off, makes the whole aiming convention inaccurate.
Through basic line drawings, it sort of makes sense, until you consider the spin and it's effects.
I think what helped me understand are just considering what is happening to the spin when the balls collide and the CB has no spin. once I came to the realization that the impact causes spin then the physics of why the throw happens started to make a bit more sense,
With that a bit clearer in my own mind, that I will practice more and think about it a bit , I'm hoping to improve by trying to compensate in my aim a bit more, rather than trying to always aim for the back of the pocket. I need to think about why I need to compensate and by how much , so bring on the "rote" then right
I basically think i was missing more often than necessary, because I couldn't quite wrap my head around the physics of the cut induced throw and once I understand it better that helps me understand why I need to compensate. One can't control things very well if you dont understand them, and it is a lot to wrap your head around.
the spin induced throw became a bit more clear when I looked at a shot, it wasn't my shot , I could see there was a ball interfering with the natural shot line, he made the shot and then pointed out that the way he did it was to spin the CB to throw the OB, so even though he did not really have the shotline, he made the shot. I had initially looked upon the same shot as a shot to avoid. inside this dark void that made a little light come on !
a while back I was shown and came to some realizations about how I could use spin to get around the table and found a great advancement in how well I could place the CB. shortly after, some pointed out that Im spining the balls too much, " I should hit most shots centerball " and "I don't know how to throw balls" it felt a bit insulting , gee, I wanted to throw a ball and prove I could ! lol
but it was true, so just a "thanks" and I did need to "chew on that one" , for a while.
I guess you can't learn things unless you go out and try, and sure, sometimes it sets you back a bit because you are experimenting. I think tats why peope watch htis stuff, return to the table and say well that just messed me up. maybe yes id did because it caused you to experiment and the experimenting caused you to do some things differently and that wont cause an immediate improvement , maybe better understanding in the long run though..
I don't think it is easy for most to sit throgh one of those DR Dave videos and really get it, even though much is spot on , watching a little TV isnt; going to change things for you ( or myself) imediately.
It takes a combination of practice and learning and neither can really come separately.
I'll go ahead and put some wild spin on the CB and watch what happens and miss a few shots, so what. I think after I can predict things more I can become a better player.. It takes time.
I came to the quite simple conclusion that if you draw lines through the shot, hit the CB perfectly on center , no spin, then the collision causes the OB and CB to spin. they will only continue to roll straight if the shot is dead straight. so take a half ball cut to the left as an example, that OB will spin to the left as will the CB because the collision causes them to.
well its not just the spin that is a concern here it it is the throw and I guess you call that cut induced throw.
that gives me basically 2 choices.
1 I hit the CB off to the right hand side to intentionally spin it , so that the impact of collision does not cause the OB to spin, that will cause it to roll true to the pocket.. this is called gearing.
2 I can compensate, I can change my point of aim from the center of the pocket to compensate for the cut induced throw < I dont know a name for that.
it was pointed out to me that the amount of throw will be different if the shot is harder or softer. adding some complication. It might explain why if I try to hit harder I suddnly start making shots, until it becomes a bit rediculous because I also loose control of the CB scratch and make a general fool of myself.
in reality I can make a lot of shots so I am probably compensating by some internal subconscious learned behavior and the word "rote" was used. I didn't understand the word so looked it up as:
noun: rote
mechanical or habitual repetition of something to be learned.
I'm trying to understand how the shot speed affects this cut induced throw and why it does.
If I apply spin to my CB to use gearing, in order to drive the OB in a straight line towards the pocket with no spin , then I'm increasing the speed that the CB will be spinning upon its impact with the first rail.
since I also want to control the CB and to use spin more effectively and predictably , it means I need to get a bit better at compensating in my aim,, compensating for the spin induced throw I'm creating.
for example I may want to spin the CB in the opposite direction of the natural gearing so to do that, I do need to get a better handle on how much I' m throwing the ball.. so that I can think properly about my aiming adjustment, to compensate for the spin induced throw.
if what I said above is sensible , and its missed by some, but well understood by the more experienced players , it kind of throws the lines we are looking at in the diagrams above off, makes the whole aiming convention inaccurate.
Through basic line drawings, it sort of makes sense, until you consider the spin and it's effects.
I think what helped me understand are just considering what is happening to the spin when the balls collide and the CB has no spin. once I came to the realization that the impact causes spin then the physics of why the throw happens started to make a bit more sense,
With that a bit clearer in my own mind, that I will practice more and think about it a bit , I'm hoping to improve by trying to compensate in my aim a bit more, rather than trying to always aim for the back of the pocket. I need to think about why I need to compensate and by how much , so bring on the "rote" then right
I basically think i was missing more often than necessary, because I couldn't quite wrap my head around the physics of the cut induced throw and once I understand it better that helps me understand why I need to compensate. One can't control things very well if you dont understand them, and it is a lot to wrap your head around.
the spin induced throw became a bit more clear when I looked at a shot, it wasn't my shot , I could see there was a ball interfering with the natural shot line, he made the shot and then pointed out that the way he did it was to spin the CB to throw the OB, so even though he did not really have the shotline, he made the shot. I had initially looked upon the same shot as a shot to avoid. inside this dark void that made a little light come on !
a while back I was shown and came to some realizations about how I could use spin to get around the table and found a great advancement in how well I could place the CB. shortly after, some pointed out that Im spining the balls too much, " I should hit most shots centerball " and "I don't know how to throw balls" it felt a bit insulting , gee, I wanted to throw a ball and prove I could ! lol
but it was true, so just a "thanks" and I did need to "chew on that one" , for a while.
I guess you can't learn things unless you go out and try, and sure, sometimes it sets you back a bit because you are experimenting. I think tats why peope watch htis stuff, return to the table and say well that just messed me up. maybe yes id did because it caused you to experiment and the experimenting caused you to do some things differently and that wont cause an immediate improvement , maybe better understanding in the long run though..
I don't think it is easy for most to sit throgh one of those DR Dave videos and really get it, even though much is spot on , watching a little TV isnt; going to change things for you ( or myself) imediately.
It takes a combination of practice and learning and neither can really come separately.
I'll go ahead and put some wild spin on the CB and watch what happens and miss a few shots, so what. I think after I can predict things more I can become a better player.. It takes time.
Hellaflush: What It Is and Why It Is Hellabroken
A new trend has recently struck the motorhead community and the general public itself. In normal applications, the suspension of a vehicle is designed to provide a smooth and comfortable ride and have the vehicle at a normal height to avoid damage to the chassis or bumpers. Stance nation, most...sjhexpress.com
OK. Flush to the <ground>
duh...
I think this is true for all aiming methods - for a method to work for us we don't have to see the alignments accurately, only consistently.
pj
chgo
If your lines are straight and the 2 points hit together, it's mathematically impossible to miss the shot. Set it up on a real table. Don't disregard it over a drawing that may or may not be accurate and to scale.
I will try to go to the hall and take some pics of exactly how this works. Imo it's the easiest and simplest aiming system out there. My only purpose in posting was to try to help those who don't have a system or are on the fence about one. This one works. Period. And it's easy. Never failed me. Ever.
Gonna head for the hall tonight and set it up on a table. Will post pics asa I can.
Thank you sir.
Ty!!!Very good, I use this off and on and it works. Thanks for sharing. I thought I was crazy when I first figured it out
Here's how I got EAO (Jimmy Reid - the O is for opposites) to work.
OB on top, CB on bottom.
The blue line is the line of centers. This takes on more significance in other applications but it's here for reference.
The red line is the cue stick. I place the tip on the cloth beneath the contact point and making visual note of the tangent at that point, I pivot over the cue ball to the reciprocal tangent or location. (Notice it bisects the line of centers.) From there I roll or position the stick over center CB and voila, the shot line.
The yellow line is just an extension of the OB line and there to illustrate that the shot intersects the <base of the ghost ball>
The half ballish hit is incidental although it might help Tyler Styer in aiming properly.
Almost forgot. How does a sway bar lock up?
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Actually, those 2 points can’t hit together - the surfaces they’re on are at different angles, making it physically impossible (a solid circle or sphere can only contact another one where their surfaces are parallel and they share a tangent line/plane).
pj
chgo
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i think mensa didnt post his thoughts on his system correctly in his first post. as obviously if you follow exactly what he wrote it cant work. so give him a break and let him show what he means .
its hard sometimes to show a picture with words in a couple sentences.
its hard sometimes to show a picture with words in a couple sentences.
He just posted a drawing. His drawing supports the way most of us, including me, were interpreting what he said. He described what I called "nearest to farthest" in the earlier aiming forum thread.