No, most players below a shortstop level tend to overcut, not undercut, the diagrammed shot.
Also, my prior post said Ds and others are subconsciously, not knowingly, adjusting for throw.
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Simple aiming system
- Thread starter Mensabum
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Also, my prior post said Ds and others are subconsciously, not knowingly, adjusting for throw.
How it's different was written in my prior post. Again, I'm not being dogmatic, and am open to your thoughts here. What I wrote included:
From my experience, the feel of a good right english stroke does make it seem like you won't miss to your left. However, aiming systems introduce subconscious adjustments.
and also:
As you've often pointed out, you still have to aim and hit point X precisely. So, it’s possible that this method is just a misunderstanding from pool pros who rely on feel without fully understanding the mechanics. Alternatively, there could be merit to it because if pros claim they aim for one tip of right English 100 times and achieve equal to or more than one tip 90 times, but less than one tip only 10 times, that’s compelling. Sheer math would make them aim at the right side of the pocket.
Your response quoted my final statement without responding to either paragraph above.
And in both paragraphs above, I allow that the pros may be mistaken, too.
Again, your lack of comprehension is astounding. No answer to my contention that D players do not have the knowledge or ability to think or execute at the same level as B players.
Instead you've expanded the field to include everyone up to "below shortstop level".
Any B or above who "constantly" overcuts (or undercuts) that shot may want to consider switching hobbies.
I addressed your contention. The level of knowledge between Bs and Ds is irrelevant because most players still overcut the diagrammed shot when they miss. I provided three reasons why this happens, none of which you have addressed.
Furthermore, I did not state that "Bs constantly miss that shot." I pointed out that players at all levels, from Ds and up, tend to overcut the diagrammed shot when they miss. Anyone with experience beyond their own home table will likely agree.
If we are going to continue discussing anything related to pool, it's important that we both use facts and directly address what the other person has written.
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So I guess you didn't write the words highlighted above. Is that what you're claiming?
You can't even comprehend your own words much less anyone else's.
snookered_again
Well-known member
the concept of discussing aiming systems or techniques was interesting. The thread regressed into some childish bickering between a couple of members, and I dont point he finger at anyone.
I've seen quite a few threads on this forum turn into stupid finger pointing games.
there are a lot of good and reasonable people on this forum. Ive seen a lot of car forms and such fail this way as well..
. It happens when a webmaster creates an electronic forum but walks away and can't be bothered to monitor the posts well enough to keep the spam, bickering , politics, religion and childish insults and and garbage posts out.
reminds me of yahoo chat, initially it had some fun chat rooms, next people were using it and they could read about every 5th post that was legitimate but there was a stream of garbage created by bots between, the bots quickly won and it turned to garbage.
I've seen quite a few threads on this forum turn into stupid finger pointing games.
there are a lot of good and reasonable people on this forum. Ive seen a lot of car forms and such fail this way as well..
. It happens when a webmaster creates an electronic forum but walks away and can't be bothered to monitor the posts well enough to keep the spam, bickering , politics, religion and childish insults and and garbage posts out.
reminds me of yahoo chat, initially it had some fun chat rooms, next people were using it and they could read about every 5th post that was legitimate but there was a stream of garbage created by bots between, the bots quickly won and it turned to garbage.
You're embarrassing yourself - but since you don't seem to realize it, no harm I guess.
pj
chgo
Yes, I wrote those words, and I stand behind them.
It's common to see D, C, and B players frequently overcutting the 5-ball from my diagram, causing it to hit the long rail short of the corner pocket when they miss.
Anyone who has played in public rooms can attest to this, which is why your disagreement stands out.
I find that when shooting out into thin air beyond the ob, using the distance between the side of the shaft and the ob (a tip distance, half a tip, 2 tips, the width of a piece of chalk, etc...) isn't that difficult to estimate.
Parallel aiming helps me considerably making combinations.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I believe they used to call that "the pro side." I mean obviously you want to make the ball, but if you miss it with an overcut it may end on the end rail and make a more difficult shot.
I mentioned that same thing either earlier in this thread or the other joining thread.....It got ignored.
I guess I will give him the benefit of doubt.....Perhaps B,C,D players in his area all do indeed overcut that shot.
In my neck of the woods however.....
B players tend to miss consistently to one side or the other but not necessarily overcut....
C players you have about a 50/50 chance of starting to see a pattern of over or under cut tendency.
D players miss wildly to both sides.........and even when overcut are most likely hit way too hard to stay on the end rail and often times have a chance to bank into another pocket.
Very good analysis of the difference between levels of players. Similar to my earlier post.
D's don't have a clue (miss wildly), C's may or may not have a clue (50/50), B's have a clue and are working on gaining knowledge and refining their skills.
I'm not ignoring you. Players of many levels tend to overcut to the long rail the shot I diagrammed.
If it helps to visualize, when players miss my diagrammed shot wide, by, let's say, a diamond, are you suggesting that rather than fall short of the pocket they bank it toward the opposite corner?
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Most players who miss the diagrammed shot tend to overcut it.
If you're referring to the clue being knowledge of collision-induced throw on a center cue ball shot, I find that few players outside of AZB, where throw is frequently discussed, are aware of this. However, I've provided three reasons why amateurs tend to overcut their shots (and cited three sources for my aiming system).
I'm eager to address your concerns, but I need to know what they are first.
Clue? There is no clue. I can't believe you don't know that the phrase "don't have a clue " means clueless, ignorant, unaware. Maybe I should have said D players are clueless, as in, they very seldom have any idea what they're doing.
Reminds me of someone's posts.
Let's clear any confusion. Here's the diagram again, showing the 5-ball being shot into pocket A. I've seen players that miss overcut the 5-ball by over a diamond toward point B (this week, last week, and the week before, and for decades before now). However, I can't recall the last time even a low-level player hit it too thick by over a diamond, causing it to bank toward point C and end up near D.
I'd be surprised if anyone claimed that misses are evenly spread on a bell curve between points B and C, regardless of skill level.
That's why I previously provided three reasons why players tend to overcut basic shots earlier in this thread.
I'm not sure I understand your point here. Could you clarify what you mean?
Citing ignorance of D's strengthens my point about subconscious adjustment for throw.
I've just now reposted my diagram with more details, see above.
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