Simple finish for beginner/hoobyist?

[Zagiflyer]

Hello:

I've spent a lot of time reading the posts here but I've never posted before. There's a lot of good information and I think it's great that the experienced cuemakers are willing to try to help others out. I'm a beginner that bought a lathe from Chris Hightower after reading his book and being interested in cues and cuemaking for a long time. I intend for cuemaking to be mainly a winter hobby for me and I do not intend to do it commercially except to possibly do some repair work at some point after I get a lot of practice. I have a career in a completely unrelated field. All I really want to do is experiment a lot, have an enjoyable hobby and maybe be able to build some good quality, simple cues for myself and some friends at some point in the future. I've had a lot of fun so far and am learning by making mistakes. What's messing me up more than anything is finishing and the fact that I have no clue what I'm doing

Anyway, here is my question: is there anything out there that will produce a decent (keep in mind I'm not selling these cues) finish that A.) is relitively non-toxic and safe, B.) can be brushed or rubbed on, c.) will dry under normal conditions (65-70 degree dry basement) d.) is fairly simple to use and inexpensive.

For experimental purposes I have tried clear gloss Minwax Polyurethane and Poly-Acrylic from Home Depot. I prepared the cue surfaces well, used compatible sealers under the gloss coats and applied the stuff with foam brushes while the cue was spinning slowly on the lathe. I hung the cue to dry between coats (allowing 5 or more hours between applications) and used 3 coats with light sanding between. I let the final coat dry 3+ days before wet sanding with 800, 1000, 1500 and 2000 paper. I then attempted to shine it back up with some gentle 3M automotive rubbing compound and Maguires liquid car polish. I wasn't really happy with the results and am going to have to sand it off and start over again. The finish actually looked nice and glossy when it was dry but it wasn't very smooth. It smoothed out well with the wet sanding but I could never get the level of gloss back with the polishes over the whole cue. Over light maple it looked pretty good but over the darker sections (one is ebony one is an old house cue that is rosewood I believe) there were sections that just stayed dull.

Any advice on materials and/or technique would be much appreciated. Am I maybe just not getting a thick enough finish on the cue? Am I using the wrong stuff for buffing? Are the Minwax finishes just totally wrong for the job? Anyway, thanks in advance. Also, CueComponents in LasVegas has a water based sealer and gloss coat that sounds like just what I'm looking for; has anybody tried it? How does it work?

Thanks everybody,

Ken Nelson

 

[hadjcues]

Cuecomponents has a finishing epoxy... but lots of work to shine. That's one drawback of using that type of finish. You did right on your procedure. I'd rather have the cue dry while spinning befor I take it out of the lathe. You could use a rubbing compound frst before using any buffing material... but then again it's still a lot of work. The minwax asn't designed for that I believe. You could try out other finishing epoxies if you wish to and see what would work for you... be prepared to sweat it out though.

 

[Jon]

I will just say these things about the cue components gloss coat stuff.

1) Joe Barringer said that it wouldn't yellow, at least not for years.
2) It is advertised as a strong finish that dries hard.

1a) My cue is barely a year old, and the maple wasn't yellow after final sanding
2a) The finish is "peeling" back on the Joint collars and Butt Cap.

It's a good think that after the last coat, that i dropped the container and spilled 90% of what was left.
And no, the floor isn't shiny anymore .

Cue components finishing epoxy is just a repackaged product.

Look, these guys must have come up with the same thing...
Another place...

And these guys...

Look at Item # SHS916 .

Just do a search for "FINISH-CURE EPOXY" if you want to price shop.

Don't get me wrong, there are somethings that i would buy from Cue Components. But not something that is repackaged and resold for a higher price.

 

[Zagiflyer]

Can finishing epoxy be buffed?

Thanks for the replies so far. I did think about trying some finishing epoxy as a finish and Chris does mention that in his book. Is there a way to get the finishing epoxy to buff out to a shine? I would prefer not to have to put thin CA over the top of epoxy. Has anyone out figured out what to do with the epoxy itself after application and drying to get it to shine without anything over it? Thanks again.

Ken nelson

 

[JoeyInCali]

Don't get me wrong, there are somethings that i would buy from Cue Components.

Such as???

 

[Jon]

I knew you would say that.

The same things you would buy

 

[Sheldon]

They say there's a sucker born every minute.
I figure there is someone born every day or two to advantage of the suckers.
Somebody has to do it, I guess.

 

[lukeinva]

I will just say these things about the cue components gloss coat stuff.

1) Joe Barringer said that it wouldn't yellow, at least not for years.
2) It is advertised as a strong finish that dries hard.

1a) My cue is barely a year old, and the maple wasn't yellow after final sanding
2a) The finish is "peeling" back on the Joint collars and Butt Cap.

It's a good think that after the last coat, that i dropped the container and spilled 90% of what was left.
And no, the floor isn't shiny anymore .

Cue components finishing epoxy is just a repackaged product.

Look, these guys must have come up with the same thing...
Another place...

And these guys...

Look at Item # SHS916 .

Just do a search for "FINISH-CURE EPOXY" if you want to price shop.

Don't get me wrong, there are somethings that i would buy from Cue Components. But not something that is repackaged and resold for a higher price.

yeah I used thier water base finish that said it wouldnt yellow well it did after about 2 months and then it started peeling at the joint and butt capp just like yours did!! Needless to say I went to the local hardware store just outta curiosity and found the same stuff on the shelf for a hell of a lot less than what I paid at cue components!! Now I use a real finish that looks amazing!!

 

[Jon]

yeah I used thier water base finish that said it wouldnt yellow well it did after about 2 months and then it started peeling at the joint and butt capp just like yours did!! Needless to say I went to the local hardware store just outta curiosity and found the same stuff on the shelf for a hell of a lot less than what I paid at cue components!! Now I use a real finish that looks amazing!!

Care to say what this real finish is?

 

[Cue Crazy]

Hello:

I've spent a lot of time reading the posts here but I've never posted before. There's a lot of good information and I think it's great that the experienced cuemakers are willing to try to help others out. I'm a beginner that bought a lathe from Chris Hightower after reading his book and being interested in cues and cuemaking for a long time. I intend for cuemaking to be mainly a winter hobby for me and I do not intend to do it commercially except to possibly do some repair work at some point after I get a lot of practice. I have a career in a completely unrelated field. All I really want to do is experiment a lot, have an enjoyable hobby and maybe be able to build some good quality, simple cues for myself and some friends at some point in the future. I've had a lot of fun so far and am learning by making mistakes. What's messing me up more than anything is finishing and the fact that I have no clue what I'm doing

Anyway, here is my question: is there anything out there that will produce a decent (keep in mind I'm not selling these cues) finish that A.) is relitively non-toxic and safe, B.) can be brushed or rubbed on, c.) will dry under normal conditions (65-70 degree dry basement) d.) is fairly simple to use and inexpensive.

For experimental purposes I have tried clear gloss Minwax Polyurethane and Poly-Acrylic from Home Depot. I prepared the cue surfaces well, used compatible sealers under the gloss coats and applied the stuff with foam brushes while the cue was spinning slowly on the lathe. I hung the cue to dry between coats (allowing 5 or more hours between applications) and used 3 coats with light sanding between. I let the final coat dry 3+ days before wet sanding with 800, 1000, 1500 and 2000 paper. I then attempted to shine it back up with some gentle 3M automotive rubbing compound and Maguires liquid car polish. I wasn't really happy with the results and am going to have to sand it off and start over again. The finish actually looked nice and glossy when it was dry but it wasn't very smooth. It smoothed out well with the wet sanding but I could never get the level of gloss back with the polishes over the whole cue. Over light maple it looked pretty good but over the darker sections (one is ebony one is an old house cue that is rosewood I believe) there were sections that just stayed dull.

Any advice on materials and/or technique would be much appreciated. Am I maybe just not getting a thick enough finish on the cue? Am I using the wrong stuff for buffing? Are the Minwax finishes just totally wrong for the job? Anyway, thanks in advance. Also, CueComponents in LasVegas has a water based sealer and gloss coat that sounds like just what I'm looking for; has anybody tried it? How does it work?

Thanks everybody,

Ken Nelson

The stuff you used will work, but is very hard to work with the foam brushes. And It is all in the technic. I am affraid anything I tell you will probably not help, because I tried to teach My father hands on how to do It, and he had the same problems as you mentioned. it will test yours skills beyond what you need for auto clear, as far as this method of applying, sanding/buffing, and finishing goes. It is not easy, and I had my bad times also, before I learned to read what was happening.

Probably the most important thing Is let It dry until rock hard before buffing in the end, and use ultra fine compound. Don't heat it up too much when doing that either, or oops. Also become the finish , What I mean is really try to understand how much you are taking off when wet sanding, and try to use finess like shooting pool with perfectly controlled speed. the stuff goes on thin, and is tricky to get enough coats built up to sand on, without getting bubbles in It. A good smooth base coat is essential. micro mesh sand paper & water, is all I will use if possible, but have had to go with real fine regular wet paper to cut alittle better when needed to straighten it out. It's not My prefered method, but can be done if dedicated enough, which means starting over if needed. you may need to clean it with a wet rag or it will load your paper up and ruin the finish. I would spray it down to keep it wet when sanding, because if It dries it will mess the finish up. Otherwise Keep It really clean.

I used foam shoe polish pads with the plastic handle, and cleaned them well in a sink with water in between coats. I would try to get three really smooth coats on It with no bubbles, let it dry well, wet sand, and do it again, until the finish was deep enough for Me, needless to say It took alot of time to finish this cue.

There is no easy way to use It on cues that I know of, but It is UV, gets really hard after drying for a while, and has a finish that looks really close to auto clear when It comes out good. The pictures below are raw looking, and don't really show how nice It is, but when waxed, and put beside a cue with auto, you cannot really tell the difference.

The cue was stained grey originally before refinishing, and I sanded without restaining, so anything yellow looking is in the wood, and not the finish. The cue has got to be well over 10 months since finishing, and no yellowing that I can tell. It has held up also with no chipping, or scratching. It is My break stick so gets beat around.

The finish is good in the end, from what I can tell, but not cost effective, as It simply takes too much effort, and time to get perfect results.

Sorry for the long post fellows, but since I have actually worked with the product mentioned in the past, I figured the poster could benifit from My experiences with It, and wanted to help if I could. I in no way recomend It, just something I tried.

Good Luck With It, Greg

 

[hadjcues]

Greg,

You forgot to mention you lose a minimum of 5 lbs when doing this type of finish... if you got some friends who are on a diet let them sand it for you Just kidding

Hadj

 

[Cue Crazy]

Greg,

You forgot to mention you lose a minimum of 5 lbs when doing this type of finish... if you got some friends who are on a diet let them sand it for you Just kidding

Hadj

Your on the money there Hadj. I was lucky enough to have enough meat on the bones to spare the 5 You will go broke in a hurry, if you try to make a living this way, but If you want to test your dedication to get It out of your system, then this is the way to test It. If you survive this one, and after mastering It, still want to work on cues, then they might have the passion, and stick It out for a while, and finishing the auto should come alittle easier Greg

 

[Zagiflyer]

This is good, I need to lose some weight.

Thanks Greg,

It sounds like this method of finishing may not be what I am looking for. Next Question: has anybody tried System Three Mirror Coat and /or clear coat finishing epoxy? Can this be used by itself and sanded/buffed to a good finish? Any tips on using finishing epoxy by itself as a finish? I hear what everyone is saying and it sounds like a sprayed auto clear coat is the way to go for professionals but I'm building cues for fun and I'm not ready to deal with spraying and the toxicity, mess and flammibility that goes along with automotive paints. Additionally, I'm trying to avoid having to construct spray booths and slow rotating devices, etc. at this stage in the game.

Thanks everyone,

Ken Nelson

 

[k-carson]

check your pm's

 

[JimS]

Blackheart posted his process a short while back. A search of his posts will reveal it.

 

[CrsSim]

I've brushed on dupont two part chromaclear auto finish with really good results with just a little wet sanding and some rubbing compound once it has dried. I work at a retail store so we really don't have the capacity for a spray booth. But with a foam brush and three layers of finish with about five minutes of flash between layers i got a really hard (if not fairly uneven) finish. I wet sanded up to 1500 and then used a little rubbing compound and it turned out very well. as an aside, i've also been working with the superglue finish outlined in chris's book, and it works especialy well for anyone doing repairs on shaft trim rings where your customer doesn't want to refinish the whole cue.