Single layer tip questions...........

V

Vince_Former_BB

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm very sure this has been addressed a few thousand times but I can't seem to find the answers I'm looking for.
1. How do you guys judge a "good" LePro from a plethora of bad ones right out of the box?
2. Are there any soft single layered tips out there other than perhaps an Elk Master?

Try as I might I cannot get used to layered tips. I genuinely feel they get so hard, so fast that their theoretical softness wanes inside of a few days. Back in the day when I was seriously playing I used nothing but LePros. And honestly, I NEVER miscued. For some reason I find myself miscuing all the darn time using layered tips no matter which one I use. I am an avid chalker, was raised on chalking for every shot, and used nothing but Master. Has Master chalk changed formulations from the 80s to the present and it's just coincidental that the chalk formulations coupled with the proliferation of layered tips has screwed me up? Thanks in advance for any constructive information you can provide.
 
I once had a a group of several younger players and legend Buddy Hall surround my lathe as I was at a pro tournament working on pool cues. Buddy asked me to show him my box of LePros. He took one tip at a time out and turned it upside down and looked at the bottom. He would put two or three back then say "that is a good one." One of the guys would say put that one on for me. This went on until I put new LePro tips on all their cues. After the players had left I asked Buddy what made the tips he chose a good one. He just answered, "because I said it was a good one!"
 
Vince, Howdy'

Not a cue maker or Pro anything, however, I do enjoy a "good Le Pro" tip.
I use a powder scale and weigh the tips. The heavier (IMO), are more dense
so, stands to reason, they would be less 'fluffy' on the inside. I've also found
that they are smoother on the bottoms. Nuttin' scientific about my method
and it works for me. YMMV.
Edit to add; The scale I use and measure them with reads in g (grams), the heavies
are 1.*** then 0.9*** on down the slope. Some of the lower 0.8s and on down have been
puff-balls when finishing them (spit!).

hank
 
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I tap them on a hard surface and the sound they make is a dead giveaway.
A good tip will "tink" a bad one will just kind of make a slapping sound.
You can grade them for hardness this way too.
A visual inspection like Chris mentions is also helpful.
 
Sometimes color can be a give away too. I find this with triangles.
Lepros I like to look at the underside. All of these kind of tips. Will show some sign of how, it's been pressed. I got lucky recently with a lepro.had a choice of just two. It was Slightly smaller, than a 13mm. didn't need much much work or shaping. Plays really nice.
I'm not normally a fan of those. Normally the quality of the new ones, the pressing isn't good. thay just don't play well enough. But That one surprised me!!!
 
I like the single layer tips for break cues- such as a Triangle, I had a Florida cue maker tell me- two weeks ago- that he is finding 75% of present le pro or Triangle tips un usable out of the box. He said that they break down during shaping. Once you ask him to put on a Le pro or Triangle- he gives it 3 attempts, if none of the three work you must choose another tip with $ added to what you paid for the Le Pro or Triangle.

That is not a good quality control rating for either tip. However, when I send my shafts to Mueller and ask for a Triangle- they come back perfect ! I believe they also do Le Pro- look on the Mueller Cue Repair website
 
mikemosconi said:
I like the single layer tips for break cues- such as a Triangle, I had a Florida cue maker tell me- two weeks ago- that he is finding 75% of present le pro or Triangle tips un usable out of the box. He said that they break down during shaping. Once you ask him to put on a Le pro or Triangle- he gives it 3 attempts, if none of the three work you must choose another tip with $ added to what you paid for the Le Pro or Triangle.

That is not a good quality control rating for either tip. However, when I send my shafts to Mueller and ask for a Triangle- they come back perfect ! I believe they also do Le Pro- look on the Mueller Cue Repair website
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This is why, thay aren't as popular as thay once we're. Just not enough good ones to go around. I'll bet the triangles at Mueller, are the old ones. It must be good to know, you always will get a nice one, from there!!
 
Vince_Former_BB said:
I'm very sure this has been addressed a few thousand times but I can't seem to find the answers I'm looking for.
1. How do you guys judge a "good" LePro from a plethora of bad ones right out of the box?
2. Are there any soft single layered tips out there other than perhaps an Elk Master?

Try as I might I cannot get used to layered tips. I genuinely feel they get so hard, so fast that their theoretical softness wanes inside of a few days. Back in the day when I was seriously playing I used nothing but LePros. And honestly, I NEVER miscued. For some reason I find myself miscuing all the darn time using layered tips no matter which one I use. I am an avid chalker, was raised on chalking for every shot, and used nothing but Master. Has Master chalk changed formulations from the 80s to the present and it's just coincidental that the chalk formulations coupled with the proliferation of layered tips has screwed me up? Thanks in advance for any constructive information you can provide.
Click to expand...
I bite them. Others sink/float them in water. Sinkers are keepers.
 
Vince_Former_BB said:
I'm very sure this has been addressed a few thousand times but I can't seem to find the answers I'm looking for.
1. How do you guys judge a "good" LePro from a plethora of bad ones right out of the box?
2. Are there any soft single layered tips out there other than perhaps an Elk Master?

Try as I might I cannot get used to layered tips. I genuinely feel they get so hard, so fast that their theoretical softness wanes inside of a few days. Back in the day when I was seriously playing I used nothing but LePros. And honestly, I NEVER miscued. For some reason I find myself miscuing all the darn time using layered tips no matter which one I use. I am an avid chalker, was raised on chalking for every shot, and used nothing but Master. Has Master chalk changed formulations from the 80s to the present and it's just coincidental that the chalk formulations coupled with the proliferation of layered tips has screwed me up? Thanks in advance for any constructive information you can provide.
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Masters has not changed formulas, despite any internet myths.

Layered tips are glued together, and there is a visible glue line(s), which may be the biggest cause for glazing. That’s my working theory.

Glazed tips need maintenance.

Miscues are generally stroke related.

I use Triangle and LePros.

Ask the Cuemaker forum might have more answers for your tip question.
 
When I started testing the tips back in about 1980 the water test was about all we had. Sink good, float bad. Today both calipers and precision scales are very cheap. Those at harbor fright are adequate for the job. I use Elkmaster, didn't like the first box of LePro I bought way back when. I buy 14mm. First thing I do is measure the diameter of one with the dial indicator or digital indicator often today. Then I lock the jaws and gauge the next forty-nine to be the same. After that, measure the height of one, lock jaws, gauge the other forty-nine. Might take ten minutes or less. Then I put them on the scales one at a time. Very light are round filed, most of the rest will fall very closely in a few groups. These I will use.

Works great for single layer tips. I don't mess with multi-layer tips for several good reasons, mostly quality. Each layer can be a different quality. Also, even today cows and other animals that die of natural causes are skinned and the hide salvaged if judged to be fresh enough. One reason tanneries smell so awful! Rotten or partially rotten hides result in tips with layers that disintegrate when trying to install and shape them. Errors in the tanning process can ruin hides too. A single layer tip is either all good or all crap.

Hu
 
Cue Alchemist said:
Great advice, from everybody on here. Nice to see these style of tips. Are still, very much being used.
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Kinda cool in one way, odd in another. The single layer tip might cost a dime to manufacture, maybe less. In 1970 I was working with an asphalt race car team. Rubber compounds for the tires was all the rage. I saw a guy spend hours cutting the compound number off of a legal tire carcass to put it on an illegal tire. I would have bet that we would have rubber pool cue tips in less than ten years.

Hard to undercut leather tip prices and make a buck. Regulations can be an issue too. However, I think the ever higher priced layered tips may be the death of leather tips. Competing with a tip selling for thirty cents retail is tough, a tip selling for thirty dollars retail, that leaves the door wide open.

It would be nice to glue or even screw a rubber tip on, know exactly how it would play no chalk needed, and it last for years. Might be possible. Target price from the manufacturer, ten to fifteen bucks. Could be a cottage industry.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
Kinda cool in one way, odd in another. The single layer tip might cost a dime to manufacture, maybe less. In 1970 I was working with an asphalt race car team. Rubber compounds for the tires was all the rage. I saw a guy spend hours cutting the compound number off of a legal tire carcass to put it on an illegal tire. I would have bet that we would have rubber pool cue tips in less than ten years.

Hard to undercut leather tip prices and make a buck. Regulations can be an issue too. However, I think the ever higher priced layered tips may be the death of leather tips. Competing with a tip selling for thirty cents retail is tough, a tip selling for thirty dollars retail, that leaves the door wide open.

It would be nice to glue or even screw a rubber tip on, know exactly how it would play no chalk needed, and it last for years. Might be possible. Target price from the manufacturer, ten to fifteen bucks. Could be a cottage industry.

Hu
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I've told this story at least a couple of times but since you mentioned rubber tip I'll briefly mention it again. Back in the 90's I worked the night shift at United Airlines in San Francisco and part of my duties there involved being on the ramp quite a bit during that time. One night I saw some scrap aircraft rubber laying around on the ramp so I thought I'd bring a chunk of it home and put it on my lathe and fashion a cue tip of that hard aircraft rubber. I thought a hard rubber tip that would never need to be chalked what's not to like. Well let's just say that this first thing next morning I put in order for a new box of Le Pro tips. I will say the wild action it produced would have made Earl salivate, but all in all an interesting experiment that went array.
 
ShootingArts said:
Kinda cool in one way, odd in another. The single layer tip might cost a dime to manufacture, maybe less. In 1970 I was working with an asphalt race car team. Rubber compounds for the tires was all the rage. I saw a guy spend hours cutting the compound number off of a legal tire carcass to put it on an illegal tire. I would have bet that we would have rubber pool cue tips in less than ten years.

Hard to undercut leather tip prices and make a buck. Regulations can be an issue too. However, I think the ever higher priced layered tips may be the death of leather tips. Competing with a tip selling for thirty cents retail is tough, a tip selling for thirty dollars retail, that leaves the door wide open.

It would be nice to glue or even screw a rubber tip on, know exactly how it would play no chalk needed, and it last for years. Might be possible. Target price from the manufacturer, ten to fifteen bucks. Could be a cottage industry.

Hu
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I was thinking urethane, like skateboard wheels, has potential. I think they run about 90 ish on the A durometer, probably have a more controlled rebound than rubber, and may machine well.
 
ShootingArts said:
Kinda cool in one way, odd in another. The single layer tip might cost a dime to manufacture, maybe less. In 1970 I was working with an asphalt race car team. Rubber compounds for the tires was all the rage. I saw a guy spend hours cutting the compound number off of a legal tire carcass to put it on an illegal tire. I would have bet that we would have rubber pool cue tips in less than ten years.

Hard to undercut leather tip prices and make a buck. Regulations can be an issue too. However, I think the ever higher priced layered tips may be the death of leather tips. Competing with a tip selling for thirty cents retail is tough, a tip selling for thirty dollars retail, that leaves the door wide open.

It would be nice to glue or even screw a rubber tip on, know exactly how it would play no chalk needed, and it last for years. Might be possible. Target price from the manufacturer, ten to fifteen bucks. Could be a cottage industry.

Hu
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I agree with the price of these tips, 30 is way much. Say if you don't like it, then what. You rip it off. In my experience all tips play differently even if it's from the Same brand, there are never any guarantees. Some of these laminated ones, I put on, and thay lasted only a few hours, before I had enough, and ripped it off. So the fact you buy a load for not very much. Yeah you might only be able to find two Or three. In say a selection of 10, from various single layer tips. If those 3 lasted a year or so, that's not too bad in my book!!
As for the rubber tip, can't see that catching on. Though it would, put to bed, alot the arguments involving who has the best tips and chalk!!!
 
There is (or was) a non leather tip on the market a few years ago. Tried some. Miscued a lot. They were supposed to be “chalkless “; they really sucked. They were just too smooth and I could not prep the top without ruining the tip. Who knows, the mfg may have corrected this by now.
 
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