It's not clear to me that losing it all is a possible outcome. Why do you feel this to be the case?
SJM – My Thoughts on WPA’s Actions
- Thread starter sjm
- Start date
Agree, I think the worst possible outcome (and maybe most likely if matchroom meets its long term goals) is that the WPA and its affiliates are relegated to overseeing the amateur/grass roots game. Sort of like the IBSF and snooker where they don’t call their events “amateur” events but that’s the position they are in relative to the WST and the WPBSA.
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Even that seems very unlikely to me. My sense of things is that if Matchroom grows to the point they have a dominant market position, WPA will reconcile with them and give them the latitude and power originally sought.
i do think they are called amateur or at least non-professional. icbw. IBSF broke with WPBSA long before MR existed. i think an analogous outcome would be co-existence similar to what SJM describes. maybe not WPA being a part owner of the tour as WPBSA is in snooker, but becoming more of a governing body and players union.
Not much beyond a foreboding feeling where one change could cause an avalanche.
If one day all cars were all electrical parts, self-diagnosing and all you had to do was plug and play, you wouldn't need a mechanic near as much and some mechanics lose their jobs or need to further specialize to keep working on cars.
Matchroom could easily become the WPA, the WPA will never be Matchroom, so I think it was a mistake on the WPA's part not to share the responsibility for 9-ball rankings so they can maintain input. Sometimes things just change but usually not without a tussle.
When the tussle is over, will they still be there? Probably so but there is always the possibility that a commercial interest,
that is making money becomes the voice of the industry.
But now the head ball goes in every time. Seems like the top pros need a more challenging test.
But shape on the 2 is not guaranteed like it is on the 1 with the 1 on the spot.
WTH??? I'm agreeing with you twice. Fkng locusts gotta be around the next bend.
Now this is an interesting thread of discussion. What are the possible outcomes? I think first you need to consider all the possible outcomes in a myriad of areas. Because the end results are wildly different based on whether each of these goes one way or another. And this likely isn't comprehensive but it does at least paint a broader picture.
- Matchroom Agrees to Sanction
- Return to exactly where we were before
- Concessions are Made
- WADA vs. WPNPC Drug Testing
- WPA recognition of WNT Rankings
- Matchroom Continues Unsanctioned
- Banning
- WPA Banning Continues
- WPA Banning is Lifted
- Regional Federation (ACBS) Banning Continue vs. Lifted
- Matchroom Success
- Matchroom's first party event footprint increases / decreases / remains stable
- Matchroom's third party ranking event footprint increases / decreases / remains stable
- Matchroom prize funds increase / decrease / remains stable
- World 9-ball Championship
- Matchroom maintains the championship
- Banned players can/can't participate
- WNT vs. WPA rankings
- Impact of federation invites
- Matchroom loses the WPA 9-ball "world" championship
- Matchroom creates their own 9-ball "world" championship
- Matchroom creates their own 9-ball "tour" championship
- Matchroom maintains the championship
- Predator
- Predator continues sanctioning / goes unsanctioned
- Predator event footprint increases / decreases / remains stable
- Predator's posture of ranking events feeding to seeding in World 8b, 10b or Teams events
- Predator's expectations of players they sponsor
- WPA backs down
- Return to where we were most of this year
- Banning
- Hybrid Sanctioning
- Promoters of the world only sanction when their event is hosted in a country that offers government added money for the event being sanctioned with an IOC body
- Only players that receive direct funding from their local federation have scheduling restrictions applied to them by their local federation
I think before you say that, you need to evaluate the number of games that are break and run vs. start with a pocketed ball vs. start with a scratch vs. start with a pushout vs. start with a safety. The numbers will be very different between 1 on the spot and 9 on the spot. I might even argue Matchroom improved template 9-ball above template 10-ball. And ref rack 10-ball seems to be garnering slug-rack scrutiny. So they might have the best version of rotation available on the planet right now. It might not be broken, it might be the solution.
Well said, Matt. You've framed the matter well. I also feel WPA will always exist, but in what form and playing what roles is not yet clear for the long-term.
I'm sure all that is true. I just think the pros need a tougher challenge than 9 ball. I personally don't like sports where the pros play different rules than the fans. So all I am saying is that if 9ball as played for the last 40 years is too easy than play 10 ball or full rotation.
Not real sure the 'challenge' is MR's big concern rather its getting viewers. 9ball is simple, relatively fast and easy for non-hardcore fans to follow.
Yes very true. I wish I could list all the changes that have be made to the rules of 9ball over the last 20 years. All made in the interest in making the game harder for the top pros. If anyone can do the research and compile this list it is you Garzar.
First of all i'd have to give a shit. Can we say, 'Houston we have a problem'.Yes very true. I wish I could list all the changes that have be made to the rules of 9ball over the last 20 years. All made in the interest in making the game harder for the top pros. If anyone can do the research and compile this list it is you Garzar.
Best way imo is break from the box with 9b on the spot. Done.
Interesting post. You would have to tell me a little about the current government programs (who has them) things like that, probably not found in the USA, but I do agree with 3. Hybrid Sanctioning I'm just not sure what form it might take.
My guess is the WPA would want to be a part of the 9-ball rankings and still try to get those sanctioning fees and maintain its IOC connection for all the reasons you name above, becuase it would appear they have fairly deep roots in Pool by now.
Really this is about pride. They are sort of being told by the marketplace to step back and they aren't going to do it voluntarily.
Bob Jewett helped me learn that the US has a policy to not involve government in Olympic sports funding. Instead they established the United States Olympic & Paralympic Committee (USOPC) as a non-governmental organization with the capacity to sell Olympic broadcast rights and license the use of the Olympic rings to private companies. The money raised through those efforts are at the discretion of the USOPC which heavily favors sports that are actively in the Olympic Games. The BCA has at one time sought recognition and access to funding from the USOPC but you can imagine that was likely fruitless compared to sports like figure skating, track and field, gymnastics, etc.
Meanwhile there are countries that have officially government-funded programs that will add money to sports that are IOC Recognized, regardless of inclusion in the Olympic Games. I assume pool's participation in the World Games means something to those governments because there is some national pride in collecting medals. When a player gets a gold medal, some countries will give that player and/or their federation a very non-trivial financial incentive. Some countries provide funding to local sport federations that will intern maintain their own training programs, facilities, events, and support for players to travel to sanctioned competition.
I know at least these federations enjoy some degree of government benefit. There’s no coincidence Poland is generating international talent disproportionate to their population, and it’s not because they have a pool gambling culture like the Philippines.
- Germany: Deutscher Billard-Bund e.V.
- Poland: Polski Związek Bilardowy
- Singapore: Cuesports Singapore
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In my view the nature of the sport had little to do with the failure of the BCA to get USOC (now USOPC) recognition for cue sports in the US. Cue sports were already recognized by the IOC as a legitimate, internationally organized sport. I think a proper application that was rejected by the USOC would have become a discussion between the IOC and the WCBS.
So far as I know, when the BCA saw what it would have to do to be accepted by the USOC as the governing body for cue sports in the US, they abandoned the attempt at recognition. Among other things, I believe the USOC required that 30% of the board of the BCA to be athletes. There was also the problem that snooker and carom should be represented/supported by the same national governing body. It has been a long time since the BCA had much interest in the other two disciplines.
There’s already a more challenging test. It’s called one pocket. Unfortunately short attention spans and immediate gratification keep players racking 9 or 10 balls instead of 15.
What type of scandal involving the WPA or WCBS would lead to its collapse?
IOC recognition once earned, should have to be re-earned to maintain the updates for culture and shifting attitudes.
Why does IOC recognition grant lifetime license, without any renewal or update process?
Forcing the hand that forces the hand seems like a strategy worth discussing. Petition IOC for renewal procedure of WCBS or push for alternative recognition within in a small subcategory.
If IOC recognition is lost for a small period of time, how would federations react?
Its like the bounced check problem in banking. When neither sides knows the same truth, the system can be abused.
Instead of a player union, how about federations causing violations?
How else can someone make this situation worse?
Can a continental federation decide to ban any federation without warning? Mosconi Cup day before, what if a ban happened?
IOC recognition once earned, should have to be re-earned to maintain the updates for culture and shifting attitudes.
Why does IOC recognition grant lifetime license, without any renewal or update process?
Forcing the hand that forces the hand seems like a strategy worth discussing. Petition IOC for renewal procedure of WCBS or push for alternative recognition within in a small subcategory.
If IOC recognition is lost for a small period of time, how would federations react?
Its like the bounced check problem in banking. When neither sides knows the same truth, the system can be abused.
Instead of a player union, how about federations causing violations?
How else can someone make this situation worse?
Can a continental federation decide to ban any federation without warning? Mosconi Cup day before, what if a ban happened?
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