Slate leveling "system" retrofit for GC3?

  • Thread starter Thread starter JC
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JC

JC

Coos Cues
I've heard it mentioned here that the new Diamond tables have the best slate leveling system in production but have never actually seen it. So my mind's eye can't really wrap around it. I am preparing to tear down my GC3 and install new cloth and rails that Donny as SD Billiards is making for me and have been thinking of whether it's possible to take the slates off and design a custom "system" to replace the wooden shims while I'm at it. I know the GC4 added some kind of screw type levelers but have also never seen them. Knowing Brunswick's reputation for quality my guess is they're funky. I have seen generic screw type leveling plates from machine shop equipment and wondered if a guy could design something like this for a GC3. I have committed to the final decision of keeping this table now instead of replacing it and am wondering if something like this would be worth the effort and if anyone had done it before on an older GC? What would be the optimal placement for this table's slates if a guy were to do this? How many and where as well as how much contact area coming up to the slate liner? I want to make this time the last time for a long time I take this table apart and have already committed substantial funding to it so more time/money doesn't scare me. I know the easy answer is to just go ahead and use wood shims again but I like cool projects. They make life fun. Plus if I ever move/sell this table it would make it unique if I do something sanitarily. Thanks!

JC
 
Glen has drilled the frame where the slate screws hold the slate down and inserted carriage bolts through the slate and frame....that way you can make slate adjustments without taking the cloth off the table.
You still have to put shims in regardless of with way you want to go.
My advice is to just have the frame and slates leveled.....bond the seams together...that's about the best you can do with the Gold Crowns.
You mentioned new rails....or do you mean the patched wood work around the worm wood?
GC3 rails need to have the wood under the formica in the corners and sides completely replaced....along with a complete new sub-rail....big difference between the two jobs....and the playability of the table. I've done it both ways.....I'll stick to the replacement wood of the rails every time.
Changing the rail bolt and casting bolt system will give you a lot better playing rails.....and sounding table.

The rails, cushions & pocket angles make up 90% of the tables play....every tables going to have highs and lows in the slates.....but the rails should be 100% consistent.
 
metmot said:
I've heard it mentioned here that the new Diamond tables have the best slate leveling system in production but have never actually seen it. So my mind's eye can't really wrap around it. I am preparing to tear down my GC3 and install new cloth and rails that Donny as SD Billiards is making for me and have been thinking of whether it's possible to take the slates off and design a custom "system" to replace the wooden shims while I'm at it. I know the GC4 added some kind of screw type levelers but have also never seen them. Knowing Brunswick's reputation for quality my guess is they're funky. I have seen generic screw type leveling plates from machine shop equipment and wondered if a guy could design something like this for a GC3. I have committed to the final decision of keeping this table now instead of replacing it and am wondering if something like this would be worth the effort and if anyone had done it before on an older GC? What would be the optimal placement for this table's slates if a guy were to do this? How many and where as well as how much contact area coming up to the slate liner? I want to make this time the last time for a long time I take this table apart and have already committed substantial funding to it so more time/money doesn't scare me. I know the easy answer is to just go ahead and use wood shims again but I like cool projects. They make life fun. Plus if I ever move/sell this table it would make it unique if I do something sanitarily. Thanks!

JC
Click to expand...

isn't the other problem that we are talking about a 1 piece slate vs a 3piece slate ....if you had a leveling system on a 3 piece wouldn't you potentially pop the seems when making adjustments ...

i guess you could lay down steel and bolt the slate to that to functionally make it a 1 piece slate ... seems like a lot of trouble for not that much gain....i think if it's leveled properly it should stay that way.
 
perfectpocketz said:
Glen has drilled the frame where the slate screws hold the slate down and inserted carriage bolts through the slate and frame....that way you can make slate adjustments without taking the cloth off the table.
You still have to put shims in regardless of with way you want to go.
My advice is to just have the frame and slates leveled.....bond the seams together...that's about the best you can do with the Gold Crowns.
You mentioned new rails....or do you mean the patched wood work around the worm wood?
GC3 rails need to have the wood under the formica in the corners and sides completely replaced....along with a complete new sub-rail....big difference between the two jobs....and the playability of the table. I've done it both ways.....I'll stick to the replacement wood of the rails every time.
Changing the rail bolt and casting bolt system will give you a lot better playing rails.....and sounding table.

The rails, cushions & pocket angles make up 90% of the tables play....every tables going to have highs and lows in the slates.....but the rails should be 100% consistent.
Click to expand...

why would you replace wood that perfectly good ?
 
What I'm talking about is drilling the frame and putting either 5/16 or 3/8 t-nut inserts in and using threaded leveling screws with about an inch or so of diameter on the plate facing upward to replace all the spots where wooden shims would normally go. Having these steel supports would be both easier to initially level as well as more stable over time with humidity changes. I assume that's why the GC4 added this design feature in 22 points which is the logical number to retrofit. I don't think this would be hard to do or expensive and wondered if anyone had done it with a GC3. I guess I'll just for it and post some pictures for people to ridicule. Don't worry Donny, I understand it's the rails I'm sending back to you Mark is talking about, not the one's your building for me:) I[m talking about the slate foundation, not the rail system.

JC
 
I'm not knocking anyone....I telling you what I know from my many mistakes for years.
The leveling system brunswick put in the 4s...no good mechanic uses them cause the vibration on the table from balls will turn the screw.
Sorry...I'l keep my info to myself.
 
I didn't get the part where I said replace good wood...I said replace the worm wood....and reason I replace the sub-rail is because by the time you try and cut out the worm wood....well you just about have replaced the whole sub-rail anyways.
Wood moves...I'm trying to give the sub-rail the best chance to not move.

Do you think gluing a front and sides to the sub-rail is not going move...as a posed to a complete sub-rail locked and screwed in place?
There's other reasons as well for calibrating the complete rail...as well as the sub-rail.
I do a lot more with rails then I did a year ago.
 
perfectpocketz said:
I didn't get the part where I said replace good wood...I said replace the worm wood....and reason I replace the sub-rail is because by the time you try and cut out the worm wood....well you just about have replaced the whole sub-rail anyways.
Wood moves...I'm trying to give the sub-rail the best chance to not move.

Do you think gluing a front and sides to the sub-rail is not going move...as a posed to a complete sub-rail locked and screwed in place?
There's other reasons as well for calibrating the complete rail...as well as the sub-rail.
I do a lot more with rails then I did a year ago.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input Mark, no disrepect meant at all and sorry if you took my post like that. The rails Donny has for me are used but virtually no wear. Looks like my cloth may be the second covering of them, thus there is no punky wood to worry about yet. I only replace the cloth about once or twice a decade so at my age they should be "good for life". Wood moving was the basis for my initial question as to whether eliminating the shims can help keep things level, longer particularly in an environment non humidity controlled. I have had shims fall out on the floor before from a combination of expansion, contraction and vibration. They are the steep hardwood ones. Are plastic shims better? How did Diamond overcome the levelers rattling loose? Friction lock threads? Or something totally different like cantilever levelers?
 
Diamond has plastic shim attached to all thread going into the slate side ways with the weight of the slate on them....the vertical adjusting levelers are the ones that will release.
I truly wouldn't worry about the leveling of the table if you bond the slates together and lock the slate screws down...you should be just fine.

I sorry...I assumed the GC3 rails were beat like the ones I see....if the wood is in great shape....you don't need new sub-rails....Donny can calibrate the top of the sub-rail for the cushions to play just fine.

The GCs I see from poolrooms are in terrible condition...I'm sure you have seen some of my pics of rails.

I think if you get the rails right...the table will play just fine.
 
I agree with Mark

On a side note

It would be better to have thicker premium slate as a feature then wasting money on that system.
 
OTLB said:
I agree with Mark

On a side note

It would be better to have thicker premium slate as a feature then wasting money on that system.
Click to expand...

The main reason I thought it might be worth while is because Glen keeps mentioning the slate leveling system on Diamonds as a selling point. So I was exploring what I might do while I had my table apart anyway. I was thinking about spending about $40 on that idea. Can you direct me to where I can get 1.5 inch slate for around that price, including shipping? That would be awesome but I'm down here in BFE where it takes an act of congress just to get DVD's sent in from simonis. Anyway I also agree with Mark after he explained it to me.
 
as one of my friends says
"here's the score"

IMO Diamonds leveling system is a requirement as a direct result of their decision to use one piece slate. It certainly is better than the alternative in their case which obviously they discovered. Slate is the most important component on a pool table period.

I have used what you suggested a long time ago, it works but not needed.
 
OTLB said:
as one of my friends says
"here's the score"

IMO Diamonds leveling system is a requirement as a direct result of their decision to use one piece slate. It certainly is better than the alternative in their case which obviously they discovered. Slate is the most important component on a pool table period.

I have used what you suggested a long time ago, it works but not needed.
Click to expand...

The Diamond leveling system is used on all the Diamond tables, regardless of which slate is used, 1 piece, 2 piece, or even a 3 piece slate. Just like Diamond switching all their slates to not have any slate backing on them, because the gluing system I showed Diamond 12 years ago is now used on ALL Diamond tables.

Glen
 
realkingcobra said:
The Diamond leveling system is used on all the Diamond tables, regardless of which slate is used, 1 piece, 2 piece, or even a 3 piece slate. Just like Diamond switching all their slates to not have any slate backing on them, because the gluing system I showed Diamond 12 years ago is now used on ALL Diamond tables.

Glen
Click to expand...

Not on the ones you delivered to me. I guess they all have them now.
 
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