sleeved or solid ivory joints

puckdaddy

puckdaddy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ive got a cue being bulit for me and I was wondering you guys opinion on sleeved or solid ivory joints. I currently have 2 cues with both and it seems that the sleeved one is a bit stiffer. Now whether the stiffness comes from the shaft taper or the joint I dont know. Thanks in advance!
 
talked to the fella, a well know maker who i don't want to mention just to avoid controversy, who is making a cue for me today and asked that same question since my soon to be new cue will be a sleeved ivory joint. his reply was that it will hit near identical to a solid ivory one and that quite a few very well known makers do that on all their ivory jointed cues. the main reason is to greatly reduce the risk of the ivory chipping/cracking. this is what he said and since i don't make cues and he is a good maker i have to go with his advice. just my .02 cents.
 
THREAD: sleaved or solid

puckdaddy said:
Ive got a cue being bulit for me and I was wondering you guys opinion on sleeved or solid ivory joints. I currently have 2 cues with both and it seems that the sleeved one is a bit stiffer. Now whether the stiffness comes from the shaft taper or the joint I dont know. Thanks in advance!
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In 1990 I expeirimented with making my 1st Ivory jointed Q. It's been my break Q since then, without a problem. It is sleaved, with the hole going all of the way through. I've made them both ways, but prefer the sleaved method( with a slightly smaller hole),than the capped...JER
 
Another advantage to a sleeved Ivory joint is that it is much easier to repair if something goes wrong down the road.
I've done them both ways, and seen a lot of them done by others both ways, and couldn't say with any certainty that one method was any stronger than the other. I will go out on a limb and say that neither method will ever come close to affecting stiffness. :D
 
My thoughts on why solid capped Ivory joints are stronger than sleeved is because ivory ferrules have definitely proven to hold up better when solid capped. The question might not need be which is strongest, but "Is sleeved strong enough?" Ferrule material of all sorts that is brittle have proven to hold up when solid capped, but fail when bored all the way through. The wall thickness on a 5/16" tenoned 13mm ferrule is about .100". If we take a .845" od joint with standard .625" bore you now have a .110" wall thickness at the face. That is only .010" more wall thickness than a ferrule has. So it seems it would be about the same in weakness. The only reason it might hold up is that the joint is not suffering as hard of an impact as the ferrule does. There is another option I have have seen a cuemaker use. He only bores the front half of his joint all the way through with about a .405" bore. This increases his wall thickness to .220". That doubles his wall thickness and still leaves the joint easy to replace if it cracks in the future. So in conclusion, I definitely believe solid capped is stronger, but I also believe sleeved, if done right, might be strong enough.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
 
Hey guys,

This is a VERY interesting subject that has always intrigued me.

What do you guys think of sleeved ivory done over another material like linen phenolic or stainless steel? I have seen some done that way by Tascarella, Tibbitts, and I think Stroud. On those cues the ivory sleeve seems to be super thin over the phenolic/ss and I would think it would be more subject to crack....moreso than a solid capped or a sleeved ivory glued directly to the wood since those materials are more similar to ivory than steel or phenolic.

Thanks in advance for your insights.

Sean
 
cueaddicts said:
Hey guys,

This is a VERY interesting subject that has always intrigued me.

What do you guys think of sleeved ivory done over another material like linen phenolic or stainless steel? I have seen some done that way by Tascarella, Tibbitts, and I think Stroud. On those cues the ivory sleeve seems to be super thin over the phenolic/ss and I would think it would be more subject to crack....moreso than a solid capped or a sleeved ivory glued directly to the wood since those materials are more similar to ivory than steel or phenolic.

Thanks in advance for your insights.

Sean
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I have been friends with Tibbitts for many years and he makes his Ivory Joints solid capped. Then he bores the pilot hole and puts a small sleeve of phenolic down into the hole. Of all the piloted Ivory joint methods I have seen I like his the best.
 
cueaddicts said:
Hey guys,

This is a VERY interesting subject that has always intrigued me.

What do you guys think of sleeved ivory done over another material like linen phenolic or stainless steel? I have seen some done that way by Tascarella, Tibbitts, and I think Stroud. On those cues the ivory sleeve seems to be super thin over the phenolic/ss and I would think it would be more subject to crack....moreso than a solid capped or a sleeved ivory glued directly to the wood since those materials are more similar to ivory than steel or phenolic.

Thanks in advance for your insights.

Sean
Click to expand...
I have been doing mine this way since 1999. The phenolic has a .625" through hole, and the ivory, wood, or other material is bored out to .750". Never had a problem with it. I love the way the cue plays with this configuration.
 
Ted Harris said:
I have been doing mine this way since 1999. The phenolic has a .625" through hole, and the ivory, wood, or other material is bored out to .750". Never had a problem with it. I love the way the cue plays with this configuration.
Click to expand...

Does the ivory really have any real effect on the play? It seems it is just there for appearance with that kind of construction. Is it for strength? If an ivory ferrule can take all the impact that it is put through I would think a properly installed ivory joint would have no problem standing up to every day play. What id the actual reasoning behind it?
 
macguy said:
Does the ivory really have any real effect on the play? It seems it is just there for appearance with that kind of construction. Is it for strength? If an ivory ferrule can take all the impact that it is put through I would think a properly installed ivory joint would have no problem standing up to every day play. What id the actual reasoning behind it?
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I want my cues to play the same. I don't want every cue to play differently. This joint construction brings the cues that much closer to playing the same...and it is a stronger joint.
In any event, all the other ivory in a cue is for looks or status, why should the joint be any different?...ie inlays, butt plate, ring work, etc.
 
Ted's joint

Ted,

Do you mind telling us what size the O.D. of your joint is before finishing? That would give those of us that are inexperienced an idea of how much ivory is still left after boring it to .750.

Thanks,

~Shakes
 
Ted Harris said:
I want my cues to play the same. I don't want every cue to play differently. This joint construction brings the cues that much closer to playing the same...and it is a stronger joint.
In any event, all the other ivory in a cue is for looks or status, why should the joint be any different?...ie inlays, butt plate, ring work, etc.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought. An ivory joint is nice looking.
 
jaflowers said:
my cuemake likes to do them over phenolic (sp?). I haven't heard of anyone using ivory over steel.
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I have a Black Boar made last year by Tony Sciannella and he uses ivory sleeved over stainless steel. The ivory as far as I can tell is cosmetic and has little effect on the hit of the cue-
 
DJKeys said:
I have a Black Boar made last year by Tony Sciannella and he uses ivory sleeved over stainless steel. The ivory as far as I can tell is cosmetic and has little effect on the hit of the cue-
Click to expand...
I have no clue why he'd do that.
Metal and ivory contract and expand at a much different rate.
What if that cue is brought to a really cold place and the ivory starts to contract? Will it crack?
 
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