Slop!

[Celophanewrap]

I think 'slop' is a subjective word and open to one's interpretation. To some people slop may mean a sloppy player or a banger (as we like to call them), but really, when you approach the table your objective is generally the same as someone that has picked up a cue stick for the first time - to make a ball. So, at which point does slop occur? and is there a difference between slop and luck. I imagine as your expertise increases the luck factor drops and your 'slop' threshold goes up. Some players it goes almost to the point that if an opponent doesn't do what you might anticipate or what you think they should do you would consider it slop. When I approach the table, unless my plan is to play a defensive shot, I want to make a ball and get position for the next ball. I can usually do this although not always the way I had planned, maybe because there is a certain amount of luck involved, maybe because it's slop, maybe because I mis-thought. I know players, rudimentary players, that have an idea when they approach the table, byt they also know their best option in certain circumstances is to execute their plan but to hit the ball hard. Their first plan is to make the ball in their chosen pocket but if they miss, plan B is that there are 5 other pockets so if the object ball is struck hard enough it has a chance to be a successful plan B. So at which point does slop occur? Their plan was to make a ball
Personally, I like the idea of luck and slop (although I might call it something else, don't know what though ...)
This brings to mind another issue, when someone loses and says "I gave that one to you".
No you didn't, you played bad and I won. You had poor shot selection and you executed your game poorly and I won. Maybe it makes you feel better to say you gave it away, but really, if you were going to give it away why did you bother playing at all? You were trying to win, same as me, you gave nothing away, you just lost.
If you play a player that you consider to be a slop player, logic says that you should still win, the cream always rises to the top....
Ever notice that when they beat you they shit in every ball and got sooooo lucky? Maybe you just played bad enough to lose. Slop, luck... everyone has a plan, an idea, usually that plan is to make balls, 'how' is insignificant.

 

[Andrew Manning]

Getting lucky on a ball going in hasn't ever bothered me that much. Neither has a person getting lucky on shape. What seems to annoy me the most is a person missing a ball so bad that it goes safe and I end up snookered.

And it happens a lot, too. Much more often than slopping it into an unintended pocket.

I'm waiting for the day a rule is introduced that if your opponent misses and you end up full ball snookered then you get ball in hand. Then I might actually enjoy playing more

I haven't ever seen ball in hand given for this, but there are rules for 10-ball where you can make your opponent shoot again after an accidental safety. I like the rule, but some people don't because it takes away the 2-way (offense/defense) shot.

-Andrew

 

[CreeDo]

To hear some older players talk about it, most pool was played under slop rules in the old days.
That includes 8 ball and 10 ball (yes, that game was around 30+ years ago).
So the question isn't why would they allow slop, it's why did they change the rules to prevent it.

Slop enhances some games. I think one pocket is much more interesting with slop.
There are a lot of 'trick plays' in one pocket that involve moving balls in the general direction
of your hole and if one happens to fall in, you get rewarded. It also adds fun to 9 ball.
If you have no viable shot but you have a tough flyer with a chance at pocketing a 2nd ball,
you can play that 2-way shot and if either of them drop, you get rewarded.
If you are forced to kick and make a good hit, you can get rewarded.

I don't think it belongs in 10 ball, 8 ball, or straight pool.

 

[pdcue]

Pardon my ignorance but if you'll indulge me! Why...oh why did the people who make the rules of pool, decide that slops are allowed? ...and then, what are the odds that the powers that be, in the decades following the establishment of the rules, have decided that allowing slops is somehow beneficial to the integrity of the game?

I'll listen while whoever in this forum can give me some reason that makes at least a little sense because I am completely baffled as to why they would take a game that has so much potential to be great...and allow slops.

That would be because they knew how to play pool right.

Dale

 

[Pushout]

In my experience the people who worry about "slop" the most can't run three balls.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[poolguy4u]

Luck always counts....

No matter what sport it is, luck counts.

I've seen lucky bowling pins flying around without hitting the head pin.

I've seen luck golf shots hitting trees and rocks and getting close to the hole.

I've seen luck in almost every sport.

It's part of the game. I love luck!


I do miss the years when I was young and got lucky a lot.

 

[Inaction]

I say you have bad rolls or luck in the game, just as well allow a little of the good luck. Call pocket eliminates the wild shot and hope something goes in anywhere shots. The odds are greatly reduced if a bad miss caroms off a ball, goes around the table or goes in after several unintended banks and goes into the pocket that you called.

 

[TwinkleToes]

Ok...as the original thread starter, (although I have always been frustrated by this type of thing) here is why I brought it up: Last night, this fellow and I had a great match going in which we were hill/hill and each of us had played several very good safeties in which we had hooked each other.

I was thinking to myself..."this has been a lot of fun because we had played so many good safeties and we were both working very hard to win the match.

Well...to make a long story short, he stepped to the table and tried to make a hit on the object ball after me hiding it behind another ball and almost the length of the table. He made a good hit but sent the object ball into the nine, which was about two feet away...and the nine went one rail and into a pocket.

All I am saying is that you can argue all day that that is just part of the game . We are all aware of that fact!!!!

The point I am making is; isn't it a shame to see such a hard fought game by both players end in that manner?

Would it not be better if the rules were that at least the nine ball had to be called?

Again, please don't repeat the tired old statement that it is just part of the game because again...the is obvious and goes without saying.

Maybe you can tell me why the game would be worse if the rule was that the nine ball has got to be called?

By the way...I have done this same thing to others and even though it is more fun to win, I have often thought that there is definitely a better way to play this game and it is a shame that the other fellow lost to me in that manner.

I am even embarrassed when it happens.

The mere fact that I feel the need to apologize to the other fellow when I do it to him should say that there is a better way.

 

[JBB2388]

Well why change the game? The obvious way to stop that from happening is to play 10 Ball. I do agree thats a frustrating way to lose a hill-hill match. I get aggravated just the same when my opponent seems to get all the rolls and I don't in my APA 8 Ball matches.

 

[hang-the-9]

Maybe you can tell me why the game would be worse if the rule was that the nine ball has got to be called?
-snip

No reason why you can't play by that rule, or talk to the tournament director or whoever to change things.

In the small local tournament I play in, the 9 ball has to be called, and it does not count off the break either. When I see money matches going on, often the players agree to call shot even in 9 ball. If both players are pretty good, they'd rather not have the other guy get lucky. Even if there is a mismatch in skill, if the lower skilled player is trying to work on his game and likes to play better players, he/she would still agree to call shot 9 ball.

 

[Pushout]

It's also been my experience that the rolls pretty much even out over time. I expect this is why no move has been made to change the rules to call shot for 9 ball.

 

[3kushn]

I do miss the years when I was young and got lucky a lot.[/SIZE]

I wish I could scratch in an full rack.
Love to see the reaction.

 

[zeronine]

Again, please don't repeat the tired old statement that it is just part of the game because again...the is obvious and goes without saying.

Maybe you can tell me why the game would be worse if the rule was that the nine ball has got to be called?

It wouldn't be worse, but it wouldn't be that much better IMHO

You'd get rid of luck deciding the outcome in a rare minority of games, but perhaps lose a bit of the uncertainty and nervous energy that increases as tight games reach the hill.

You mention losing a match at hill / hill to a lucky shot, but also that you've won in similar circumstances.

Most people here have probably experienced the same.

Personally, i think the danger of being vulnerable to slop adds risk to the final racks. It plays into the minds of players who make riskier shots than they would otherwise make. Either hoping for a lucky break to win the game, or fearing that if the opponent gets back on the table they might make a lucky shot too.

Both players know the rules - if it gets to hill hill knowing a lucky shot could win or lose the match then both players have allowed that to happen by not closing out the match sooner, and so both players are complicit in letting luck be a deciding factor.

 

[00john]

Long, long before that. I've only heard of one instance in tournament play that was call shot. Call shot is stupid. kisses, carom, number of rails, The best players end up in the finals.

 

[Pushout]

Long, long before that. I've only heard of one instance in tournament play that was call shot. Call shot is stupid. kisses, carom, number of rails, The best players end up in the finals.

To me call shot and call pocket are the same. They were when I started playing and I make no distinction now.

 

[lewis_rva]

In defense of slop

Would it not be better if the rules were that at least the nine ball had to be called?

Again, please don't repeat the tired old statement that it is just part of the game because again...the is obvious and goes without saying.

Maybe you can tell me why the game would be worse if the rule was that the nine ball has got to be called?
...
The mere fact that I feel the need to apologize to the other fellow when I do it to him should say that there is a better way.

The way I see it "slop" offers an additional percentage for aggressive play. Modern high level 9 ball with Texas express rules requires great safety play and kicking skill. Ball in hand plus a three foul rule gives a huge bonus for good defense. The ability to luck in a ball, or luck a safe allows people

 

[lewis_rva]

In defense of "slop"

Would it not be better if the rules were that at least the nine ball had to be called?

Again, please don't repeat the tired old statement that it is just part of the game because again...the is obvious and goes without saying.

Maybe you can tell me why the game would be worse if the rule was that the nine ball has got to be called?

The way I see it "slop" offers an additional percentage for aggressive play. Modern high level 9 ball with Texas express rules requires great safety play and kicking skill. Ball in hand plus a three foul rule gives a huge bonus for good defense. The ability to luck in a ball, or luck a safe allows a player to go for shots that are lower percentage.

Safety battles can be exciting to watch and participate in but I personally like the bonus given to offensive play that "slop" adds.

 

[victorl]

For every time you blast away at a kick and luck in the nine ball, there are probably 20 times when you end up scratching doing that, so it evens it out in the end I think.