Smash-break = slop

[Paul Schofield]

smash-break = slop

Conventional wisdom is: “The harder you smash-break the balls, the more likely you are to luck a ball in”. As a matter of fact, the goal of the smash-break is to luck a ball in. So, SMASH-BREAK = SLOP.

Get out your “break speed gadget”, measure big and SLOP in 2 or 3 balls or maybe more!

By far, this is the biggest wrong-headed thing that has have ever been done to our wonderful game.

We are not in an open outdoor environment (like golf). We are in the close quarters of billiard rooms, taverns, and homes. For God’s sake: What are we doing incentivizing the dangerous smash-break with the slopped ball? This is flat out wrong. The smash-break has no useful or proper place in pool (a highly skilled and finesse game).

I have been around pool for more than 40 years and have been in the business for 32 years. In my place, I cannot even begin to remember all the glass doors that have been shattered, not to mention all the windows. In addition, over and over, I have had to replace glass in my merchandise display cabinets. I have seen good players take pride in sending the cue ball straight up in the air to shatter 8’ fluorescent light bulbs. The weaker players just shatter the bulbs with their cue stick, trying to throw some uncoordinated muscle into it. Have you ever cleaned up after this kind of mess? Besides shattered picture glass, I have little round dents in my paneling and chipped Formica tables everywhere from the “little white spherical missile” (not to mention chipped up cue balls).

Eleven years ago, I decided that I would refurbish the aprons, legs, and stretcher, on all my Gold Crowns. A close inspection revealed hundreds upon hundreds of identical round dents, particularly on the aprons.

Lastly and most importantly is the safety issue. I am sure everyone has at least one story here. I have too many to mention. I had a one-eyed player get hit squarely in his one good eye. One time there was a party of six enjoying a dinner a good 15 feet away from a pool table just to have a white missile shatter a water glass, spraying the customers and their food with glass shrapnel. I have had insurance claims but have luckily avoided law suits.

Soon, more than 200 players, the best players in the world, will show up in Chesapeake, VA. They will begin every game with a “SLOP” shot. A “smash-cut-break out of the box” ensures chaos and slop rather than skill. We are trying to define pool as a “sport” with this? Don’t kid yourselves. Open up any Nine or Ten-Ball video on youtube and see what actually goes on. It is unsafe and is 90% slop. Any skills you see in all this are skills we don’t need. All the breaking acrobatics is not pool. Pool has never looked so ridiculous.

The front end of our favorite games is all wrong and needs to be cleaned up. The controversy surrounding it is not going away any time soon. The smash-break, slopped balls, pattern racking, rack manipulating, racking gadgets, and breaking gadgets are all nonsense and need to be trashed in one clean sweep.

For those that say “This is pool.” I say “Change it.” "Breaker shoots after a legal break" is the fix. Read about it here:
http://www.goldcrownbilliardseriepa.com/noconflict.html

 

[NewStroke]

I believe you are right. My goal is to get a good spread and leave the cue ball in the center of the table. It's been working out real well lately.

 

[Pushout]

I believe you are right. My goal is to get a good spread and leave the cue ball in the center of the table. It's been working out real well lately.

This used to be the way 9 ball was always played.

 

[stljohnny]

Dude, make up your mind, is the break slop or not? If you're going to call it slop, then you can't complain about pattern racking. If you're going to say that perfecting your speed so that you make either the wing ball or the head ball is slop, then you clearly don't understand the physics of the break.

A *controlled* break is important and doesn't require a 6' hop on the table. Having been around pool for as long as you have, surely you *must* understand that.

What would you rather do? Just have the opponent toss the balls out in a random order? LOL

I know I'm "new" to pool and all but if I can figure out how the break works, surely everyone else can as well?

 

[stljohnny]

This used to be the way 9 ball was always played.

I think that's the way a lot of people still play it...

 

[Mt. Cheverest]

Well, that's one of the things that makes a player great....to be able to control the break and make something out of that so called "slop." It's not like anyone has an advantage when you look at it that way. If you want to prevent a slop, use a Magic Rack. I just tried one the other day for the first time and I was 20 for 20 making the corner ball or the one in the side. No matter where I broke from....

With your rules, all someone has to do is break a good speed and spread the rack and then run out. People will still pattern rack even if a ball on the break is not required because they want the desired layout. Sometimes, the only way to get an opportunity against a great player is to hope he doesn't make a ball on the break....so much for that.

 

["CaliRed".]

It seems as the sport has changed when it comes to the breaking. 10-20 years ago, I don't ever remember seeing a soft break. Nowadays, there's referee's that are telling the players they need to break HARDER because they're breaking so soft.

Room owners need to take control of their pool room. You see some idiots trying to break the balls so hard the cueball is flying everywhere, you tell them they can practice that sh1t at your competitors down the street

There's a difference between having a controlled hard break and some fool trying to show off to their equally fool friends.

Besides........ how would Tom Cruise ever got as big as he is today.... without that MONSTER break of his?

 

[Lonestar_jim]

Another ranting thread ?

I read most of the last thread you started about pattern racking.

Really man, I'm sorry you once lost money to someone and you suspected some pattern racking going on.

What you really want to do, I suspect is to eliminate breaking in favor of some random ball placement computer program. Bring in an impartial person to flip a coin for the opening break, refer to the computer again to decide CB placement, etc...

For those that say "change it", I say "wear a goalie's mask".

J/K, I'm sorry your friend was injured. Best of luck with your rules suggestions. I will still play by my own rules in public if you don't mind.

 

[stljohnny]

The no conflict rules aren't a bad idea, but I fail to see how that is going to eliminate hard breaking; which seems to be the root of your argument. I realize that the no conflict rules don't require a "hard" break, but I doubt that will prevent anyone from wanting to break hard.

 

[the420trooper]

While we're at it, we should also get rid of the serve in tennis, the homerun in baseball, and the knockout punch in boxing.

OP, I understand where you're coming from as a room owner, but just because the bangers can't break properly doesn't mean we should take away one of the greatest weapons of the upper echelon.

I'm probably a B+ or A- player on my best days, but even I haven't knocked the CB off the table in the last 6 months. You have to have a seriously flawed understanding of your own particular power/control combination to fly the cue ball off the table more than VERY occasionally, imo.

(Also, do any of the pool fans here NOT enjoy watching Francisco Bustamante lay into the balls like he's mad at them?)

 

[Paul Schofield]

The no conflict rules aren't a bad idea, but I fail to see how that is going to eliminate hard breaking; which seems to be the root of your argument. I realize that the no conflict rules don't require a "hard" break, but I doubt that will prevent anyone from wanting to break hard.

Johnny-thanks for taking the time to read everything and thinking about it. De-incentivizing the smash-break is key. Take the ball on the break out of the mix and the goal then becomes controlling the cue ball, controlling the 1-ball, and getting a good spread on the balls, all while hitting a random rack with ample force to meet the middle string requirement. This is good enough. There is much skill in all of this.

Because of the potential damage and danger, a cue ball rocketing off the table on the break should be met with the harshest penalty: Loss of game.

 

[the420trooper]

Because of the potential damage and danger, a cue ball rocketing off the table on the break should be met with the harshest penalty: Loss of game.

I would be OK with that, as it usually ends up costing you the game anyway.

But really, when playing 8ball or 10ball, doesn't the person who breaks the hardest with control usually win?

This is a fundamental aspect of pool that will never really change. (Nor should it, imo)

 

[Paul Schofield]

Originally Posted by Paul Schofield
Because of the potential damage and danger, a cue ball rocketing off the table on the break should be met with the harshest penalty: Loss of game.

I would be OK with that, as it usually ends up costing you the game anyway.

But really, when playing 8ball or 10ball, doesn't the person who breaks the hardest with control usually win?

This is a fundamental aspect of pool that will never really change. (Nor should it, imo)

Nowhere have I written that you can't break em as hard as you want. Break however you like. As long as two balls break the center-string vertical plane and you keep the cue ball on the table, you get to continue shooting.

 

[the420trooper]

Originally Posted by Paul Schofield
Because of the potential damage and danger, a cue ball rocketing off the table on the break should be met with the harshest penalty: Loss of game.



Nowhere have I written that you can't break em as hard as you want. Break however you like. As long as two balls break the center-string vertical plane and you keep the cue ball on the table, you get to continue shooting.

OK, I agree, but it sounds like you're advocating the position that it shouldn't be necessary to pocket a ball in order to continue shooting?

That's what I was saying is a fundamental part of pool that needn't be changed...And when playing games like 8ball or 10 ball, the person who breaks harder with control will have more opportunities after the break.

 

[scttybee]

slop

im sorry you have wild monkeys for customers-really
when someone is hitten em hard and parking the cueball is that ok with you?
if your wild monkeys keep killing things with the cueball who trains the monkeys?when i was learning to break random items around the pool room with my flying cueball trick and the houseman said--now scotty its pool not tennis i listened-do your customers run your poolroom or do you?
im sorry if im a little harshe but i like the wild monkeys --they lose money

 

[RRfireblade]

The game has really gotten out of hand. It's practically unplayable in it's current form. It's wonder anyone even wastes thier time.

Obvioulsy we should lose the break entirely , a 3rd party places all balls around the table based on a computer generated randomizing program.

After thinking about it , I think all slop needs to be taken out of the game.

Any misses could allow for the potential of luck (IE slop) to pass to either player so after any miss , all balls should be placed back in their positions prior to the shot and again , the computer makes a mathmatically random choice of who will shoot the next shot.

Safeties can be played but must be called in every detail. Any missed detail results in ball in hand. That covers 'lucky' safes , slopped balls or anything that may change the layout of the table in favor of one player or the other.

I actually think the ideal future of the game would be a 9' LCD panel where you hit the "play" button and the rest of the game plays out based on randomized computer generations of each shot.

Perfect. No luck , no slop.

Save alot of money on cues and other worthless aspects of the game too.

 

[justadub]

The game has really gotten out of hand. It's practically unplayable in it's current form. It's wonder anyone even wastes thier time.

Obvioulsy we should lose the break entirely , a 3rd party places all balls around the table based on a computer generated randomizing program.

After thinking about it , I think all slop needs to be taken out of the game.

Any misses could allow for the potential of luck (IE slop) to pass to either player so after any miss , all balls should be placed back in their positions prior to the shot and again , the computer makes a mathmatically random choice of who will shoot the next shot.

Safeties can be played but must be called in every detail. Any missed detail results in ball in hand. That covers 'lucky' safes , slopped balls or anything that may change the layout of the table in favor of one player or the other.

I actually think the ideal future of the game would be a 9' LCD panel where you hit the "play" button and the rest of the game plays out based on randomized computer generations of each shot.

Perfect. No luck , no slop.

Save alot of money on cues and other worthless aspects of the game too.

Post of the week! :thumbup:

(yes, it's been a short week so far, but work with me here)

 

[peter_gunn]

With all respect mr. Paul, i hate soft breaks. When tapping balls come to scene and perfect racking, 9 ball become shitty game.
My favorite is:
1. Racking with good triangle
2. Tight (but fair) pockets
3. Power break

I didn't spend 10 years learning how to have controlled 24-25 mph break and today any low skill with tapped balls can break with playing cue & runout

 

[Shaft]

For those that say “This is pool.” I say “Change it.” "Breaker shoots after a legal break" is the fix. Read about it here:
http://www.goldcrownbilliardseriepa.com/noconflict.html

The rule you propose (breaker continues to shoot after a legal break even if nothing drops) gives too much advantage to the breaker IMO.

You would need something else to balance the odds again.

How about, "breaker continues to shoot after a legal break ONLY IF CB stops within a one-diamond box around the center of the head rail (or some other less-than-perfect position)?" That way, the breaker has to position the CB in a specific spot after the break, and that spot may not make for an easy run out.

Somehow, I think any rule we could devise would result in techniques that capitalize on the rule.

 

[Snapshot9]

Look

I would be willing to bet that there is at least 50,000 players in this country that can runout from almost anywhere when there is an open table, BUT there is nowhere near that can make a ball on almost every break, and even less that get shape on the 1 ball.

A player DEPENDS on his runout skills when playing a player of lessor skill, but when playing a player of equal skilll or higher, you have to depend on other things, suching as breaking, safeties, banking skills, etc.. Running out is not that hard, in fact, most runouts are pretty easy if you know what you are doing. I play players all the time that can run the balls as well as I do, but they can not break quite as well, break balls out, play safeties, or bank as well as I can, and this gives me the edge when we play.

Good breaking, safeties, and banking skills actually are harder than most runouts (with the exception of having to make breakouts). Don't kid yourself, being able to break good with consistency takes skill and a lot of good coordination and timing.

The 2 best weapons a lessor player can have against a better player is a good break, and good safety play.

I would hate to have my runouts predetermined because people or computers would be trying to make things harder than normal just to prevent someone from running out.... food for thought. And then think how boring the game would be.

People, and I include railbirds, love a big break, seeing the balls fly around the table, falling in the holes, and seeing what the table looks like after the balls stop rolling. It's almost like opening a Christmas present, seeing a new toy, and trying to figure out how it works.

Paul ... With your logic, you would have never got laid before you got married ... think about that!!!