Smoking at tournaments
- Thread starter Bob Romano
- Start date
.I am a smoker. I have no idea from whence came the assumption that most people in pool tournaments are non-smokers... That sure didn't seem to be the case at the Derby City Classic!Koop said:
That being said, I'll respect the rights of non-smoking poolplayers to not inhale second-hand smoke while playing, so long as they respect my right not to be proselytized to with some politically-correct, scientifically-correct, new-age, gentrify-the-image-of-pool-for-the-sake-of-annoying-kids-and-moms bullshit.
I think smokers should have forums in which they are allowed to freely smoke... they used to be known as TAVERNS, one of the most unlikely locations to catch a health nut...
An unqualified smoking ban on any business establishment or indoor environment is a result of the cheapest political populism.
However, because there are many (not necessarily the majority) poolplayers who don't smoke and are bothered by it, I wouldn't mind stepping outside so long as I'm allowed to take a couple of breaks during the set.
My feelings exactly
LIVE & LET LIVE!!
Snapshot9 said:
LIVE & LET LIVE!!
Bob Romano said:
It is an easy call, go with the no smoking. Smokers are not going to pass because they may have to step outside to take a smoke, they are used to it and most don't mind at all. A non smoker may not come though or come back if the place is filled with smoke. I am not making any kind of moral judgment, I don't care one way or another but from a business point I would go with the non smoking. Especially since people displaying at the expo are trapped there. If they know they may be forced to have to do business in a possibly smoke filled room, they may even pass on the show all together costing you real money. Like I say, I don't even think it is a close call.
As you can tell by my handle I smoke cigars... and I thoroughly enjoy smoking premium handmade cigars while I play. That said....
In general, if an establishment normally allows smoking, I see no reason why smoking should not be allowed during a tournament IF the ventilation system for the room is not being overloaded by the number of players + the spectators. If that IS the case, smoking should not be allowed.
I have been asked to not smoke cigars while I play in a tournament (that allows smoking) due to the cloud of smoke *clouding* the table while my opponent is shooting. No problem, I oblige. But if I'm not playing and am simply spectating, I keep my distance from any table and smoke away.
In general, if an establishment normally allows smoking, I see no reason why smoking should not be allowed during a tournament IF the ventilation system for the room is not being overloaded by the number of players + the spectators. If that IS the case, smoking should not be allowed.
I have been asked to not smoke cigars while I play in a tournament (that allows smoking) due to the cloud of smoke *clouding* the table while my opponent is shooting. No problem, I oblige. But if I'm not playing and am simply spectating, I keep my distance from any table and smoke away.
I think we should rename this thread,....
"The Great Smoking Debate of 2005"
Seriously, I'm a smoker. If I was playing a tournament that was no smoking, I would simply go out and smoke between matches. I'm capable of shooting pool without lighting up. However if smoking is allowed, you'll see me sitting in the corner, smoking like "The Cigarette Smoking Man" off of the X-Files.
Hope you guys continue to enjoy the debate, even though some of your statistics are not accurate.
"The Great Smoking Debate of 2005"
Seriously, I'm a smoker. If I was playing a tournament that was no smoking, I would simply go out and smoke between matches. I'm capable of shooting pool without lighting up. However if smoking is allowed, you'll see me sitting in the corner, smoking like "The Cigarette Smoking Man" off of the X-Files.
Hope you guys continue to enjoy the debate, even though some of your statistics are not accurate.
T
Timberly
Guest
I quit smoking a little over a month ago. I was a smoker during the SBE and I couldn't stand to be downstairs. It was horrific. There certainly wasn't any need to light up down there as all I was doing was breathing in smoke. I did all of my smoking outside. Then again, I was one of those people that didn't smoke in their house either. I was always the considerate smoker when in public too.Barbara said:
Having been a smoker, I don't mind the smoke, but some places are unbearable. Most bars & restaurants are equipped with some sort of ventilation system. The problem you run into at the venues big enough to hold a tourney like the SBE or the midwest expo is that the convention type centers they're held in do not have the ventilation system needed to handle the number of people smoking.
mapman72
New member
Snapshot's Out of His Mind
Snapshot and others,
Snapshot, you say that you try not to offend anyone, well you have just offended me. I have never smoked a cigarette in my life and I do not give a rat's behind if you do or don't smoke. Try telling me though that your smoking has nothing to do with me when I am diagnosed with Tonsil Cancer at age 28 from living with two smoking parents and hanging out in smoky pool halls. I love to play pool. Everytime I step foot in a pool hall I am risking my life because of people like yourself. I guess your answer is for me to stop going to pool halls. Well, I don't think that's very fair. Let's face it, the only reason that smoking is allowed in public places is because it's been the status quo for so long. Well, as we have seen with many other aspects of our culture (e.g., slavery, women's rights, etc.), the status quo is often very, very wrong. How does your smoking cigarettes in my presence not violate my right to breathe clean air??? Because it's been that way from the beginning, so to change it violates your rights? Well, I'm sure slave traders thought that their rights were being violated when slavery was abolished. And as time goes by, and the evidence continues to mount about the damage that second hand smoke causes, I'm sure you will continue to become more and more bitter that you are losing your rights. And your "let the buyer beware" quote, what exactly am I buying? Foolish people like yourself take your lives into your own hands by following that slogan, but when I'm a victim of your foolishness, my rights are being violated.
My parents still smoke and I love them dearly. I do not have hard feelings towards considerate smokers. Although you claim to be one, your rhetoric above tells me different. I have never been upset that a player has to take a break and go outside to smoke. I am not a complainer or an excuse maker. But what is right is right, and you polluting my environment in a public place is absurd. Your comment about places having adequate ventilation is ridiculous. 99% of the pool halls and bars that I've been in have little to no ventilation. Finally, if you are that sorry of a pool player that you need drugs to keep you relaxed or in gear, then maybe you should quit playing pool and take up another hobby. And for Mr. Romano, thank you for posting this thread because it shows that at least someone is thinking about the health and well being of the tournament players. I attended the midwest open a couple of years ago and really enjoyed myself. I may be coming back.
Snapshot9 said:
Snapshot and others,
Snapshot, you say that you try not to offend anyone, well you have just offended me. I have never smoked a cigarette in my life and I do not give a rat's behind if you do or don't smoke. Try telling me though that your smoking has nothing to do with me when I am diagnosed with Tonsil Cancer at age 28 from living with two smoking parents and hanging out in smoky pool halls. I love to play pool. Everytime I step foot in a pool hall I am risking my life because of people like yourself. I guess your answer is for me to stop going to pool halls. Well, I don't think that's very fair. Let's face it, the only reason that smoking is allowed in public places is because it's been the status quo for so long. Well, as we have seen with many other aspects of our culture (e.g., slavery, women's rights, etc.), the status quo is often very, very wrong. How does your smoking cigarettes in my presence not violate my right to breathe clean air??? Because it's been that way from the beginning, so to change it violates your rights? Well, I'm sure slave traders thought that their rights were being violated when slavery was abolished. And as time goes by, and the evidence continues to mount about the damage that second hand smoke causes, I'm sure you will continue to become more and more bitter that you are losing your rights. And your "let the buyer beware" quote, what exactly am I buying? Foolish people like yourself take your lives into your own hands by following that slogan, but when I'm a victim of your foolishness, my rights are being violated.
My parents still smoke and I love them dearly. I do not have hard feelings towards considerate smokers. Although you claim to be one, your rhetoric above tells me different. I have never been upset that a player has to take a break and go outside to smoke. I am not a complainer or an excuse maker. But what is right is right, and you polluting my environment in a public place is absurd. Your comment about places having adequate ventilation is ridiculous. 99% of the pool halls and bars that I've been in have little to no ventilation. Finally, if you are that sorry of a pool player that you need drugs to keep you relaxed or in gear, then maybe you should quit playing pool and take up another hobby. And for Mr. Romano, thank you for posting this thread because it shows that at least someone is thinking about the health and well being of the tournament players. I attended the midwest open a couple of years ago and really enjoyed myself. I may be coming back.
mapman72
New member
Scott's Principal
Then his hobbies were likely bowling, pool, darts, and bingo. What a crime that one has to risk their life to do the things that they enjoy because of inconsiderate people who can't go outside for five minutes and have a smoke.
Oh, and about that one comment from the smoker that contends that making him not smoke is a form of sharking, I know a couple people that intentionally blow smoke over the pool table during our matches because they know it bothers me. I guess that's not sharking because it's their right to be Aholes.
Snapshot9 said:
Then his hobbies were likely bowling, pool, darts, and bingo. What a crime that one has to risk their life to do the things that they enjoy because of inconsiderate people who can't go outside for five minutes and have a smoke.
Oh, and about that one comment from the smoker that contends that making him not smoke is a form of sharking, I know a couple people that intentionally blow smoke over the pool table during our matches because they know it bothers me. I guess that's not sharking because it's their right to be Aholes.
mapman72
New member
Smoking Facts
Although people assume we're only talking about Lung Cancer, we are actually talking about a whole bunch of crap. As mentioned earlier, Efren WAS a smoker but the last I heard he was forced to quit because of emphysema. In the book 50 Things You're Not Supposed to Know by Russ Kick, he quotes the book Cigarettes: What the Warning Label Doesn't Tell You. This book quotes over 450 articles from medical journals reviewed by 45 experts - mainly doctors and PhDs.
He starts off saying that it's not news that smoking causes lung disease and oral cancer. Then he says the following:
-Besides cancers of the head, neck, and lungs, ciggies are especially connected to cancers of the bladder, kidney, pancreas, and cervix. Newer evidence is adding leukemia and colorectal cancer to the list. Recent studies have also found at least a doubling of risk among smokers for cancer of the vulva and penis, as well as an eight-fold risk of anal cancer for men and a nine-fold risk for women.
- Smoking trashes the ability of blood to flow resulting in a sixteen fold greater risk of peripheral vascular disease. This triggers pain in the legs and arms, leading to an inability to walk and, in some instances, gangrene and/or amputation.
- Smokers are at least two to three times more likely to develop the heartbreak of psoriasis. The American Council tells us, "Smokers in their 40s have facial wrinkles similar to those of nonsmokers in their 60s."
- Smokers require more anesthesia for surgery, and they recover much more slowly. In fact, wounds of all kinds take longer to heal for smokers.
- Smoking helps to weaken bones, soft tissue, and spinal discs, causing all kinds of musculoskeletal pain, more broken bones and ruptured discs, and longer healing time. "A non-smoker's leg heals and average of 80% faster than a smoker's broken leg."
- Smoking is heavily related to osteoporosis...
- Smoking does a serious number on sperm, resulting in more deformed cells, less ability of them to swim, smaller loads, and a drastic decrease in number...
- ...smoking interferes with the blood going to the (big) head in both sexes. This causes one quarter of all strokes. It also makes these strokes more likely to occur earlier in life and more likely to be fatal.
- Depression is overrepresented among smokers, although unclear whether this is a cause or an effect.
- Smokers experience sudden hearing loss an average of 16 years earlier than do never smokers.
- Smokers and former smokers have an increased risk of developing cataracts, abnormal eye movements, inflammation of the optic nerve, permanent blindness from lack of blood flow, and the most severe form of macular degeneration.
- Smoking increases plaque, gum disease and tooth loss.
- Smoker makes you more likely to develop diabetes, stomach ulcers, colon polyps, and Crohn's disease.
- Smoking trashes the immune system in myriad ways, with the overall result being you're more susceptible to disease and allergies.
- And let's not forget that second-hand smoke has horrible effects on the estimated 42 percent of toddlers and infants who are forced to inhale it in their homes.
So, after reading all this, go and light up. Just thinking of all the other people that you might be exposing to the list of ailments above.
Coop1701 said:
Although people assume we're only talking about Lung Cancer, we are actually talking about a whole bunch of crap. As mentioned earlier, Efren WAS a smoker but the last I heard he was forced to quit because of emphysema. In the book 50 Things You're Not Supposed to Know by Russ Kick, he quotes the book Cigarettes: What the Warning Label Doesn't Tell You. This book quotes over 450 articles from medical journals reviewed by 45 experts - mainly doctors and PhDs.
He starts off saying that it's not news that smoking causes lung disease and oral cancer. Then he says the following:
-Besides cancers of the head, neck, and lungs, ciggies are especially connected to cancers of the bladder, kidney, pancreas, and cervix. Newer evidence is adding leukemia and colorectal cancer to the list. Recent studies have also found at least a doubling of risk among smokers for cancer of the vulva and penis, as well as an eight-fold risk of anal cancer for men and a nine-fold risk for women.
- Smoking trashes the ability of blood to flow resulting in a sixteen fold greater risk of peripheral vascular disease. This triggers pain in the legs and arms, leading to an inability to walk and, in some instances, gangrene and/or amputation.
- Smokers are at least two to three times more likely to develop the heartbreak of psoriasis. The American Council tells us, "Smokers in their 40s have facial wrinkles similar to those of nonsmokers in their 60s."
- Smokers require more anesthesia for surgery, and they recover much more slowly. In fact, wounds of all kinds take longer to heal for smokers.
- Smoking helps to weaken bones, soft tissue, and spinal discs, causing all kinds of musculoskeletal pain, more broken bones and ruptured discs, and longer healing time. "A non-smoker's leg heals and average of 80% faster than a smoker's broken leg."
- Smoking is heavily related to osteoporosis...
- Smoking does a serious number on sperm, resulting in more deformed cells, less ability of them to swim, smaller loads, and a drastic decrease in number...
- ...smoking interferes with the blood going to the (big) head in both sexes. This causes one quarter of all strokes. It also makes these strokes more likely to occur earlier in life and more likely to be fatal.
- Depression is overrepresented among smokers, although unclear whether this is a cause or an effect.
- Smokers experience sudden hearing loss an average of 16 years earlier than do never smokers.
- Smokers and former smokers have an increased risk of developing cataracts, abnormal eye movements, inflammation of the optic nerve, permanent blindness from lack of blood flow, and the most severe form of macular degeneration.
- Smoking increases plaque, gum disease and tooth loss.
- Smoker makes you more likely to develop diabetes, stomach ulcers, colon polyps, and Crohn's disease.
- Smoking trashes the immune system in myriad ways, with the overall result being you're more susceptible to disease and allergies.
- And let's not forget that second-hand smoke has horrible effects on the estimated 42 percent of toddlers and infants who are forced to inhale it in their homes.
So, after reading all this, go and light up. Just thinking of all the other people that you might be exposing to the list of ailments above.
I really don't understand the numbers I'm seeing here. Don't get me young, read my #34 post on this thread to find out that I can deal with non-smoking tournaments. What I don't understand is the 2 to 1 margin I'm seeing in this thread..
People have mentioned about how smoky it gets in the rooms, complaining about the lack of ventilation. It gets that smoky in the room because 75% of the people are smoking. I've been to a lot of tournaments. I know this. It's like a cloud. There is an ash tray in front of everyone. You have to guard your ash tray with you life!
Yet we are seeing a two to one against it here. Very curious. Maybe there aren't very many 'pool players' here? LOL
People have mentioned about how smoky it gets in the rooms, complaining about the lack of ventilation. It gets that smoky in the room because 75% of the people are smoking. I've been to a lot of tournaments. I know this. It's like a cloud. There is an ash tray in front of everyone. You have to guard your ash tray with you life!
Yet we are seeing a two to one against it here. Very curious. Maybe there aren't very many 'pool players' here? LOL
mapman72
New member
CaptainJR said:
Could be, but I also think there are a lot of people who choose to smoke when it's around, but don't necessarily need to smoke. I've known people for a few years and knew them as a non-smoker, but then seen them in the bar or the pool hall and no they're a smoker. I have also noticed that quite often, railbirds and sweaters are smoking more than the competitors. I know on the Planet Pool tour, I am always happy to make it Sunday because that means I'm in the money. But on Sunday, they have the ladies tournament and it always seems like 98% of the ladies are smoking, and smoking twice as much as the men. So by the time Sunday rolls around, the guys are fighting it out where each match is worth hundreds of dollars, in an environment that is totally smoked filled. Not too fair for us non smokers.
In Oregon we had two major regional events, APA and BCA. A couple years ago the BCA went to non-smoking while the APA stayed with the cigs. There are many people who now attend the BCA event over the APA just because it's non smoking (me included). Even smokers say it's much better.
blah blah
Shoebat
CaptainJR makes very good points in the earlier post about the older generation not knowing that smoking was bad when they were young, in the loss of part of the ritual or "tradition" of the poolplaying experience, and in the hardship that smokers experience when they can't smoke.
I agree it should be a nonsmoking tournement with kindnesses towards smokers- alloted breaks and easy convenience in getting to a smoking area. A smoker's lounge would be greatly appreciated.
At one room in SoCal, if you wanted to go for a smoke, you had to go from the third floor down to the ground floor by stairs or escalator, through the casino and the food court and out into the sweltering heat with no shade and then stand where the valets were working. And get glared at by self- righteous nonsmokers. You didn't enjoy your cigarette and it was a total pain to go... I ended up leaving when I got knocked to the loser's side (without showing up for the next match) just because the whole obstacle range sucked and during my last cigarette I thought about how there were much better rooms to go to in the area.
I agree it should be a nonsmoking tournement with kindnesses towards smokers- alloted breaks and easy convenience in getting to a smoking area. A smoker's lounge would be greatly appreciated.
At one room in SoCal, if you wanted to go for a smoke, you had to go from the third floor down to the ground floor by stairs or escalator, through the casino and the food court and out into the sweltering heat with no shade and then stand where the valets were working. And get glared at by self- righteous nonsmokers. You didn't enjoy your cigarette and it was a total pain to go... I ended up leaving when I got knocked to the loser's side (without showing up for the next match) just because the whole obstacle range sucked and during my last cigarette I thought about how there were much better rooms to go to in the area.
Your argument is slightly flawed
I feel for your pain and your cancer and am truly sorry that happened to you, however the pool halls you hung around in were your choice. The pool room owners made the choice to allow smoking. The mistake you make is pool rooms are not public places, they are private property that allows the public. So the people there smoking only offend people who choose to be offended.
All the people that enter a smoking environment make that choice. I am sure if there were rooms that were non smoking you would have gone there instead but I guess there were none. Where I live, years ago we had a smoking room and a none smoking room. The non smoking went out of business,(not for that reason) then the state banned smoking everywhere regardless of property rights and they got away with it because they made it a health issue for employees not the public. So all your rhetoric on public places is irrevelant. However I imagine it won't be long that the no smoking law will reach your area, in the meantime don't blame the smokers. Just hope they will try and respect you.
Also in error is the ventilation in pool rooms, I beg to differ that most all new rooms that opened over the years have good air condition or fans and as time goes on there will be more, a lot of states will require them if smoking is allowed at all. The past 10 years I have seen very few smoked filled rooms and it will only get better in this modern age of technology.
mapman72 said:
I feel for your pain and your cancer and am truly sorry that happened to you, however the pool halls you hung around in were your choice. The pool room owners made the choice to allow smoking. The mistake you make is pool rooms are not public places, they are private property that allows the public. So the people there smoking only offend people who choose to be offended.
All the people that enter a smoking environment make that choice. I am sure if there were rooms that were non smoking you would have gone there instead but I guess there were none. Where I live, years ago we had a smoking room and a none smoking room. The non smoking went out of business,(not for that reason) then the state banned smoking everywhere regardless of property rights and they got away with it because they made it a health issue for employees not the public. So all your rhetoric on public places is irrevelant. However I imagine it won't be long that the no smoking law will reach your area, in the meantime don't blame the smokers. Just hope they will try and respect you.
Also in error is the ventilation in pool rooms, I beg to differ that most all new rooms that opened over the years have good air condition or fans and as time goes on there will be more, a lot of states will require them if smoking is allowed at all. The past 10 years I have seen very few smoked filled rooms and it will only get better in this modern age of technology.
You need another choice
Eydie you need another choice. Allow smoking outside the tournament area but the contestants playing allowed a 5 min break an hour to step outside.
And only can take break when it is there turn at the table. They made this rule at the Reno Open recently and it has worked great. Made everyone happy and as you know Reno is in a smoking state that if they stopped it at the casinos they wouild probably go broke.
Bob Romano said:
Eydie you need another choice. Allow smoking outside the tournament area but the contestants playing allowed a 5 min break an hour to step outside.
And only can take break when it is there turn at the table. They made this rule at the Reno Open recently and it has worked great. Made everyone happy and as you know Reno is in a smoking state that if they stopped it at the casinos they wouild probably go broke.
Last edited:
mapman72
New member
nfty9er said:
A couple problems with what you're saying.
1. If I wanted to play pool, it was the only choice I had. There were NO non-smoking pool halls when I was growing up. By your logic, if a black man in the 1950s was hungry and chose to stop at the nearest restaurant in some southern town, argued when he was refused service, was killed by a mob of white patrons, then it was actually HIS fault for "choosing" to go into that restaurant. Is that what you're saying? Can't you see the problem with that thinking?
2. Although bars and pool halls are private establishments, the fact that they allow the public makes them public places in my mind. They can't discriminate or do other things that are not "right". These establishments are required by law to adhere to other health related policies and procedures, but whenever someone suggests that smoking be banned we hear this uproar. As we are seeing with legislation throughout the country, just because the place is "private" doesn't make it exempt from providing a safe environment to the "public" who work there or patronize the business.
3. My area is LOADED with smoked filled pool halls. This one place in Maryland has so much smoke, you really can't see across the bar. I am happy, however, that you have more and better options in your area.
4. Pool room owners really have no choice but to allow smoking. It's so hard to make money in the business anyway, if the government allows smoking, businesses cannot possibly alienate a percentage of their clientelle by taking a stand with smoking. The smokers will ultimately go to the next pool hall where smoking is allowed. So if the pool hall wants to stay in business, they will allow smoking. Who gets the short end of that deal? Non smokers who just want to play the game that they love in a safe environment.