Smoking at tournaments

[mfrisone]

I say thumbs down to smoking at tournaments. Pool is a sport. Like any other sport, for optimal performance, the body and brain REQUIRES oxygen. Lack of oxygen to the body and brain results in less than peak performance. What is your goal in practicing and playing as you do? To be the best? But then again, maybe self-sabotage (i.e., a built-in excuse) is YOUR out!

 

[mfrisone]

Eydie, one question occurs to me. If there are two rooms, and you make one smoking, and one non-smoking, how will you determine how to place a scheduled match in a particular room?

 

[Number1]

Hey that guy sure is funny, he seems to have convinced himself that smoking doesn't do any harm to himself or anyone else, if only everyone believed that LOL! The tobacco company's should wheel him out on TV, actually it sounds like he works for one LOL!

Look, its a no brainer:

The pool hall should be non smoking, the everyone can play pool and the smokers can still smoke. Either outside or in a closed smoking room. If the room is full of smoke then you are alienating the non-smokers and not giving them a "choice"

Hardly worth debating?

Cheers

 

[sharandrew]

This issue is not about others trying to tell you how to live your life. Personally, I could care less if you want to smoke 5 packs a day and killl yourself. Go for it! Just don't take me with you!
Would you mind providing proof that what you state in your post is not mere heresay? Are you suggesting that pregnant women smoke because it is only a warning?

I would like to encourage you to follow the links provided. You
will not be disappointed.

Here is the link to World Health Organization Reports;
http://www.who.int/inf-pr-1999/en/pr99-35.html

Here is plenty of evidence by many different organisations, including the WHO and others from several countries & continents;
California EPA Report Health Effects of Exposure to Environmental
Tobacco Smoke (1997):
http://www.oehha.org/air/environmental_tobacco/index.html
http://www5.who.int/tobacco/page.cfm?tld=67#healtheffects
http://www.health.gov.au/nhmrc/publications/synopses/ph23syn.htm
http://www.official-documents.co.uk/document/doh/tobacco/contents.htm
http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/roc/tenth/profiles/s176toba.pdf
http://www.euro.who.int/document/aiq/8_1ets.pdf
http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/may2000/niehs-15.htm

Here is 464 pages of evidence by the National Cancer
Institute ;
http://cancercontrol.cancer.gov/tcrb/monographs/10/m10_complete.pdf

Here is a link to a press release by the WHO stating that Phillip
Morris & other tobacco companies monitored & actively interfered with the conduct of an international ETS epidemiological study by the WHO;
http://www.uicc.org/publ/pr/home/00040701.shtml

and another by the WHO that states that almost HALF the worlds
children are endangered by tobacco smoke;
http://www.rferl.org/nca/features/1999/06/F.RU.990629125134.html

In fact, if you do a google search with these keywords, you will find that there are 26,100 links to sites that offer evidence against what you are saying;
world health organization report environmental tobacco smoke

Here is a link to a Washington Post article about the 1998 ruling
upholding Judge Osteen's EPA ruling;
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/tobacco/stories/secondhand072098.htm

Take note of this quote from the article;
Of the reports that were inconclusive or found no health effects,
nearly three-quarters were written by scientists funded by cigarette companies, the JAMA article said. In fact, it said, the evidence "suggests that the tobacco industry may be attempting to influence scientific opinion by flooding the scientific literature with large numbers of review articles supporting its position."

If you would like to stay up to date with the WHO, here is the link for it;
http://www.who.int/tobacco/en/

Here is the current status of ETS is at the WHO;
http://www.who.int/tobacco/health_impact/secondhand_smoke/en/

Take note of this quote from within this WHO page;
While the tobacco industry continues to claim that the evidence that passive smoking causes disease – particularly lung cancer – is controversial, every independent authoritative scientific body that has examined the evidence has concluded that passive smoking causes many diseases ( Table 1 ). Moreover, the evidence that passive smoking causes disease is not new. The first studies linking passive smoking with breathing problems in children and lung cancer in adults 20 years or more ago and the studies linking passive smoking and heart disease are over 10 years old.
The tobacco industry attacks the evidence that passive smoking is
dangerous because it knows that smokers are reluctant to poison
others. Smoke free workplaces, public places, and homes help smokers cut down or stop, which reduces tobacco company sales and profits.

I was looking at not so old threads and thought this was a good thead.
Smoking is just plain bad. People who say its there right are not thinking. People who say they are considerate are not. The real point is that people are addicted and they use excuses to rationalize smoking. I would like to help all smokers but i can't. Smoking does not belong anywhere especailly at pool tournaments.

 

[Travis Bickle]

I hope you folks will listen to the majority and direct the smokers outside.

They should always have the right to smoke --- where it doesn't affect anybody else.

I grew up in a smoking household, and I'll tell ya, there's no place to hide. The stuff works its way into every corner of the house. Everything stinks, from old clothes in plastic bags in the basement, to fresh towels in the closet upstairs ... both places in my house where nobody smoked.

Now I play some tournaments around NYC, but Jersey, fuhgeddaboudit. Then you've got to deal with the smoke scene. I'd love to go to Derby City and Valley Forge, but from what I hear about the air quality, so far I'm passing them up.

People are always so worried about offending the smokers, assuming those of us who don't light up must be candy-asses who go home at 9:30. Well, I don't know the demographic in any detail, but I know plenty about closing time.

 

[Jimmy M.]

I could care less who smokes just as long as I don't have to breathe it along with them. I don't think that smoking should be allowed in the same room where the tournament is taking place. It forces non-smokers to breathe the second hand smoke if they want to participate in the tournament.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Hey that guy sure is funny, he seems to have convinced himself that smoking doesn't do any harm to himself or anyone else, if only everyone believed that LOL! The tobacco company's should wheel him out on TV, actually it sounds like he works for one LOL!

Look, its a no brainer:

The pool hall should be non smoking, the everyone can play pool and the smokers can still smoke. Either outside or in a closed smoking room. If the room is full of smoke then you are alienating the non-smokers and not giving them a "choice"

Hardly worth debating?

Cheers

I've never claimed smoking doesn't have negative side-effects. Everything in life does. The smell is probably the most important one.

It needen't affect your health much if smoke in moderation and exercise. Steve Jones who broke the marathon world record in the 90's was a 20-a-day smoker. Go stick that in your politically correct book of facts to avoid.

Only a stupid parrot who can't think for himself would call the issue a no brainer.

What really pisses me off is people telling others what to do with their own properties. You are thieves! Just using the government to do your dirty work.

Let X run his pool club with smoking and let Y open his club without it. It's their property and the customers can vote with their feet and wallets.

If a smoker pushed to have the right to smoke in someone's private home or business then I would condemn them strongly as well.

Just wait until the ATF is breaking down the doors of your house for having a friendly card game and nibbling on some banned french cheese. You'll then feel the effects of the tyranny you are supporting.

Heck, I don't encourage smoking, but people have been doing it voluntarily for centuries because they like it. That's freedom! Most of the information on smoking is extremely biased. It is not a no brainer.

 

[jazzn4444]

Look, if my post is just repeating something from above, MY BAD. I just didn't have the patience to sift through responses of replies. BUT, would it be all that bad to have an area indoor for smoking? Maybe half of each tournament area? Just an idea, maybe another dedicated smoker could help me elaborate on that one.
---I keep smoking because my parents didn't raise a quitter---

 

[bob griffin]

madison bob

hell fire you know every where we go these days people are trying this stuff even in big citys . its like saying if your black you can,t eat here i thought we have growed out of this stuff .you know its a matter of time before someone sues over this crap. you no people have the right to smoke or not i choose to smoke and don,t care if anyone else do;es are not . i think people should deal with it there own way if your a room owner i quess you should say no smoking because most of the people don,t like it (wrong) and you don,t want to lose some of those people . so i,ll tell you what let,s send the bad people who smoke to a room and punish them because they smoke (wrong) how about lets send the ones that don,t smoke to a room how do you think they would like that (not) how about if you drink beer you have to wear a bibb so you don,t spill it on anyone are yourself are better yet lets send them to a room till there done hell i know people that would be in a room for life. look respect people. just because you dont like it then why push that on someone else ? hell i say if you you can,t stand the smoke wear a mask are stay home.next its going to be if you play with a cue tech we have a room you have to play in are hell if you play with a players cue you have to play in the basement. are i,ll tell you what if you play pool period your going to be taxed by are so called great goverment twice as much how about that one. why not let the people do what they want we all have to get along and i,ll tell you what for what i pay to enjoy my smoking nobody better even try to tell me were i can are can not smoke they can kiss a. well you know what i mean lets let people live are die in piece. we have alot bigger fish to fry for sure. I HOPE I DID NOT STEP ON ANY ONES TOES BUT IF I DID I,AM SORRY AND I RESPECT YOUR FEELING AND PRIVLIGES SEE HOW EASY THAT IS. MADISON BOB

 

[bob griffin]

Madison Bob

I say thumbs down to smoking at tournaments. Pool is a sport. Like any other sport, for optimal performance, the body and brain REQUIRES oxygen. Lack of oxygen to the body and brain results in less than peak performance. What is your goal in practicing and playing as you do? To be the best? But then again, maybe self-sabotage (i.e., a built-in excuse) is YOUR out!

EFREN SMOKES I QUESS WE ALL SHOULD BE GLAD HE DON,T NOBODY WOULD EVER WIN A TORNY. split the rooms non smokers play over here and smokers over there better hope one of your friends don,t smoke because you,ll never be able to play together what a shame. every body just leave each other alone and live in piece and respect one another. madison bob

 

[Colin Colenso]

This issue is not about others trying to tell you how to live your life. Personally, I could care less if you want to smoke 5 packs a day and killl yourself. Go for it! Just don't take me with you!
Would you mind providing proof that what you state in your post is not mere heresay? Are you suggesting that pregnant women smoke because it is only a warning?

I would like to encourage you to follow the links provided. You
will not be disappointed.

[edited- tons of links for brevity]

Take note of this quote from within this WHO page;
While the tobacco industry continues to claim that the evidence that passive smoking causes disease – particularly lung cancer – is controversial, every independent authoritative scientific body that has examined the evidence has concluded that passive smoking causes many diseases ( Table 1 ). Moreover, the evidence that passive smoking causes disease is not new. The first studies linking passive smoking with breathing problems in children and lung cancer in adults 20 years or more ago and the studies linking passive smoking and heart disease are over 10 years old.
The tobacco industry attacks the evidence that passive smoking is
dangerous because it knows that smokers are reluctant to poison
others. Smoke free workplaces, public places, and homes help smokers cut down or stop, which reduces tobacco company sales and profits.

Ted,
Well your hard work deserves a reply, however I certainly don't have time to investigate and comment on all those resources, but thanks anyway.

But let me get down to the crux of the issue.

Even if we assume second hand smoke is as bad as many fear, there would at least be safety zones. That is, people across the road from a bar are at insignificant risk from 2nd hand smoke.

So let's agree that the problem exists within the confines of a private establishment. (Talking about public areas is another issue).

I've been a non-smoker much of my life and even now I prefer a clean air venue to a smoky venue, but I will enter such venues according to the cost benefit ratio. Everything in life has cost benefit issues.

So people who choose to go into these premises should do so at their own risk. Take responsibility for their own choices.

There are markets for different types of people. Some venues can cater to smokers, others to non-smokers or they can divide rooms, put in ventilation, set up smoking rooms, whatever to find the best balance for what pleases the most customers.

I believe it should be non of the government's business to interfere in this process, neither is it their duty to educate the public. They are as bad at education as they are with postal services and food production.

To summarize, let the property owners and tournament owners decide their policies. Let them take the advice of their customers / participants and make decisions based on their market and their own preference.

 

[bob griffin]

madison bob

I hope you folks will listen to the majority and direct the smokers outside.

They should always have the right to smoke --- where it doesn't affect anybody else.

I grew up in a smoking household, and I'll tell ya, there's no place to hide. The stuff works its way into every corner of the house. Everything stinks, from old clothes in plastic bags in the basement, to fresh towels in the closet upstairs ... both places in my house where nobody smoked.

Now I play some tournaments around NYC, but Jersey, fuhgeddaboudit. Then you've got to deal with the smoke scene. I'd love to go to Derby City and Valley Forge, but from what I hear about the air quality, so far I'm passing them up.

People are always so worried about offending the smokers, assuming those of us who don't light up must be candy-asses who go home at 9:30. Well, I don't know the demographic in any detail, but I know plenty about closing time.

Do you drive ? if so then stop i hate going outside and smelling those fumes! I bet your going to say i got to get around well walk. then you choose to add to the so called problem you mentioned here. do you go outside with out a mask? well then you smell your on smoke from the car you drive i don,t hear you saying anything about that. i forgot where surpose to live with you adding to the so called problem. ever flew on a plane along with a bunch of other non smokers ? oh we should look over that to no one should complain because we all do it right? do you use scented soap ho boy i hate the smell of that stuff and who knows it might not be good for your health if i have a breathing problem and i,am setting next to you on the plane.but heres the point i,am setting there not saying nothing and having a hard time breathing but i don,t say anything because it is your right to do so and i respect your right,s no matter how it affects me. so i suffer thru it . well what i,am saying is should i be treated different because i smoke and be sent to a room because you don,t like it and might think it,s not good for your health? in other words i just respected your rights to drive ,fly and wear scented soap put i should go to a room to do what i enjoy doing because you don,t respect my rights as a person and smoker. that makes perfect since to me how about you? look this is a respect issue from both sides but we all have to realize we are people with rights and should respect them not everyone should have to be forced to like are do are be made to do anything they don,t want to but sometimes we are forced to respect other peoples rights in order to maintain all of our rights other wise we will be told when and were we can do things by are goverment because we started imposeing it on ourselfs so now they thinks its okay to do it because we give in to each other without a fight. i don,t know you but i want you to know i see your side but i hope you also see mine and if thats the case then quess what we just learned to respect each other and that would be great for everyones rights after all were all here for a short time and why not live with respect for everyone instead of just our selfs because really we are nothing without each other pulling together for our rights rather there sometimes not something you choose to do . THIS WAS WROTE WITH RESPECT TO ALL THAT VEIW IT AND I HOPE EVERYONE RESPECTS YOUR RIGHTS RATHER THEY AGREE TO THEM ARE NOT BECAUSE THAT IS THE AMERICAN WAY. MADISON BOB

 

[woody_968]

Eydie, I didnt read through all the posts so sorry if this has already been said.

I have recently quit smoking, but I will also be one of the first ones in line to support peoples right to smoke if they so choose. The problem you have IMO in running a tournament is if you make it so people can smoke the non smokers have no choice but to choose to deal with the second hand smoke. And if you make it non-smoking then you get the complaints from those who like to smoke. Its a no-win cituation and Im sure you already knew that.

So I dont think you can look at it from a "who do I want to make happy" point of view. I think you have to stand back and take an open look to see which way better suits the tournament you want to run. I would suggest making a list of the pros and cons of having a smoke free tournament, then compare them and make a decision.

I think making one room smoking and one room not would give you even more problems than making it all one way or the other. When you get a smoker and a non-smoker playing each other which one are you gonna make happy?

The number of people that dont smoke and will say they want it non-smoking will be greater than the number of people that smoke. But the times I have heard of a room trying to have a smoking and a non-smoking area the results have been the same. The non-smoking area was empty because people liked being around the action players, and many of the action players smoke. So while alot of people say they want it non-smoking, sometimes its just lip service and they will go where ever they need to in order to see the action.

Since your asking if we would like a tournament better if smoking was allowed or not Ill tell you I like non-smoking rooms better. I liked them better BEFORE I quit smoking! I was only able to play in two rooms that were smoke free but I can tell you it was well worth having to take a short break if I wanted a cigarette in order to be in a clean invironment.

I would start another thread and ask people to simply list what they feel are pros and cons of a smoke free tournament. Hopefully they can do this without getting into the "smoking is good or bad" argument and just see which list you think would put forth a better tournament.

Woody - Respects the rights of smokers and non-smokers, and thinks room owners should be able to decide how to run their business.

 

[CaptainJR]

I read the first couple pages of this but don't have the time to read the rest of it. I may be repeating what someone has said, but I'll just be reinforcing it then.

I'm a smoker but I try to be very courteous about it when I'm around people that don't smoke. If I'm not, please tell me at the time. So, I don't mind if a place is a non-smoking place. Of course I'd rather be permitted to smoke, but if not, that is OK with me. It is the way of the world today.

Here is my problem. And I'm going to state this in no uncertain terms. Cause this is where my consideration stops.

1. There needs to be extra time allotted for smokers to go have a smoke break. At least one per half hour. I usually smoke more than that, but I can deal with that.

2. None of this 'sharking' horse shit! When I reach to my cigarette pocket and realize that I can't light one up, we are talking a real dependency distraction. It is sometimes almost like a panic, but I can deal with it if I know that before to long I can go have one. It is more of a shark against the smoker to make them not smoke than it is against there opponent to have to wait for a smoker to go have a cigarette every once in a while.

Places that pool is played have always been smoking environments. We went to the pool hall, we played pool, and we smoked. It was almost like a tradition. So now we are being made to drop part of the tradition. Because this 'no smoking indoors' is becoming a trend I think sometime in the next several decades or so the people that grew up in the smoking environment will be gone, so at that point a person won't be able to come on here and say 'it's a tradition'. It will be accepted and that is a good thing. But for now you need to remember that the older smokers like myself were not even told when they were young that this habit is bad for you. We have the habit. There will come a time when nobody will be able to say "I wasn't told this when I started smoking", until that time the smokers have at least some rights.

 

[Snapshot9]

Spots are hard enough ...

Negotiating for spots is hard enough, I don't want
to negotiate for a certain number of smoke breaks
during the match (on money matches). All rooms
out here have adequate ventilation systems to lift
it up and out. Only in a big tournament, only in
small 10 table rooms, only in main room, does the
smoke get a little heavy before the ventilation system
kicks in.

I can just see it now, a bystander asking a player
in a big money match to not smoke because it
bothers their eyes ...lol

Can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen ...

I believe the capacity to get cancer is more genetic
related than anything else. My grade school principal
died of lung cancer, and never smoked in his life, nor
did anyone in his family.

Smog is worse than smoking, IMO, but look how many
people live in L.A..

In the Navy, I was forced to sandblast in confined areas
and paint with oil based paints in confined areas. Much
worse on a person, IMO.

Personally, I think obesity and not exercising are much
worse on a person, than smoking is..... JMO, but it is
a free couintry, with free being the operative word.

 

[Jon]

split the rooms non smokers play over here and smokers over there better hope one of your friends don,t smoke because you,ll never be able to play together what a shame. every body just leave each other alone and live in piece and respect one another. madison bob

A pool room here tried that.
Had smoking in the front and non-smoking in the rear.
The owner got tired of having a wait list for a front table and having all but a few tables empty on the other side.
It's now all smoking, and has been for years.
But one thing about this room, the owner spent some mad $$$$ on air filtration. You can have a dozen (or two or three) people smoking at the same time and there is no "death cloud" to be seen... or smelled.

 

[Cane]

Smoking is disgusting, not only does it kill the poor bugger who is stupid enough to smoke but also all the inocent buggers around them.

STUPID is calling someone "stupid" who has two degrees, who retired at 45 years old with a decent income for the rest of their life, who smokes, and who's 6'4" 280 pounds of a cranky old SOB! Don't post your location, STUPID!

Back to the thread. I smoke... like a train. I don't smoke when I'm playing in tournaments... well, I do in small bar tournaments where you can't see across the room for the fog of smoke, because I don't think anyone notices there, but in "decent" tournaments, I can put away my cigarettes for a short or long race. I also don't mind going outside to smoke between matches. Hell, what's the big deal.

We were all born without smoking. It's a nasty habit most have done [me included]. I quit 20 plus years ago. [ 3 packs of camel reg. per day]. Those who have never smoked, should have the right to say no to smokin around them.Those who do smoke, should respect others. It's not a natural habit. it's just a habit we picked up. Again, we were born without smoking.
blud

Blud... we were born without clothes, too. I personally think all bars should be nude since we are born without clothes! Think of it! Go to the pool room and have the same scenary you'd have in Platinum Plus (a rather nice "bar" in Memphis)... on the other hand... I guess there would be people that should be REQUIRED to wear clothes. Come to think of it, we were born without a glass in our hands, too. We were born to nurse, naturally. New Law... it should not be considered sexual harassament to say to a nice looking young lady "flop out those mammaries... I'm thirsty!"

Oh, well... just a smartass thought.

Later,
Bob

 

[poolbiz420]

I'm trying to quit right now so being around it as little as possible is great. Even though the thread is not about the tournament i'd like to here some more about it. Might come up and make a weekend of it. Maybe play in one of the events.

 

[Koop]

Even as a smoker it never bothered me to have to go outside.
At least for me it is more of a consideration issue for the majority of people who don't smoke.

JMO,
Koop

 

[Barbara]

As most of you know we are hosting the Midwest Billiard Expo and Open this October.

We are in a quandary regarding smoking permitted at this event. There are 2 seperate rooms the larger of the rooms is 38,000 sq feet. This will hold the expo, the APA events and part of the BCA event. The other room has 12,000 sq feet and hold about 40 tables and will be just for the BCA event.

My suggestion was to have one smoking and the other nonsmoking. I would like to take a poll to see who likes the smoke free rooms to the smoke permitted rooms.

In addition, I would like to know your feelings regarding smoking.

Thanks for all your help!!!!!!!!

Eydie

Eydie,

This is a tough situation. You will never be able to please everyone, so know this from the start.

At the SBE the bottom floor is open to smokers but the top floor is not. When the non-smoking players have to go downstairs for their match, they complain. When the smoking players have a match on the top floor, they complain. And there is nothing that we can do about it.

I would say for now to make the larger room the smoking area for the vendors and the APA folk. The BCA people are already used to a non-smoking venue at Vegas. Then take a poll this year and find out what everyone's opinion is for next year.

Good luck!

Barbara