So am I totally wrong on this?

ddadams

ddadams

Absolutely love this cue.
Silver Member
Lately I've been really trying to change my fundamentals a bit to improve them and a BIG change was my stance and entire alignment.

I found out I was completely off and have since started to straighten everything out, the right way this time.

Well I've been doing nothing BUT practicing and doing drills for about a month and a half or so now.

I play in APA and Valley so I get my "playing" in there. I'm a 6/7 in APA and averaged a Valley SL8-9 most of the session. I'm OK but not great yet.


Lately I've been getting a lot of shit basically from the regulars at the pool hall I play in and it's just getting annoying hearing the same thing over and over.

"You're never gonna get any better by doing that, you need to play"

"Playing people is the only way to get that stuff in your head"

"You need to gamble more, that's how you get better"



Well, I come from a martial arts background and I'll tell you for a fact that it's important to spar and get some fights in, but what's way more important is to be able to kick someone with as fluid and good of form as you can do in practice.

The only way to do that is to practice it over and over and over and over non-stop til you can do it automatically.



Isn't it the same for pool?

Most of the regulars and "good" players at this place are maybe a ball ahead of me at most. There's only a couple of guys that are genuinely great players that come in there. So most of the advice and "tips" I get there I just ignore. Yeah they've played longer, but when someone there told me I "broke too hard" after loose racking me, I stopped taking the advice.

Yeah. 9 of the 15 balls didn't move in an 8 ball rack because according to him and another one of the "best" players there, if you break too hard you lose energy if/when the cue ball pops in the air. Breaking softer transfers the energy.
 
Couple years ago I started playing in pool room, mainly practicing, there was couple good players and they told me if you want to improve, you have to play with better players. I said OK, and keep practicing. In those day, the guys easy beat me, now I'm playing with them, and can beat them often. Now they are saying - Normally he wins, because he is so much practicing.
 
ddadams said:
Lately I've been really trying to change my fundamentals a bit to improve them and a BIG change was my stance and entire alignment.

I found out I was completely off and have since started to straighten everything out, the right way this time.

Well I've been doing nothing BUT practicing and doing drills for about a month and a half or so now.

I play in APA and Valley so I get my "playing" in there. I'm a 6/7 in APA and averaged a Valley SL8-9 most of the session. I'm OK but not great yet.


Lately I've been getting a lot of shit basically from the regulars at the pool hall I play in and it's just getting annoying hearing the same thing over and over.

"You're never gonna get any better by doing that, you need to play"

"Playing people is the only way to get that stuff in your head"

"You need to gamble more, that's how you get better"



Well, I come from a martial arts background and I'll tell you for a fact that it's important to spar and get some fights in, but what's way more important is to be able to kick someone with as fluid and good of form as you can do in practice.

The only way to do that is to practice it over and over and over and over non-stop til you can do it automatically.



Isn't it the same for pool?

Most of the regulars and "good" players at this place are maybe a ball ahead of me at most. There's only a couple of guys that are genuinely great players that come in there. So most of the advice and "tips" I get there I just ignore. Yeah they've played longer, but when someone there told me I "broke too hard" after loose racking me, I stopped taking the advice.

Yeah. 9 of the 15 balls didn't move in an 8 ball rack because according to him and another one of the "best" players there, if you break too hard you lose energy if/when the cue ball pops in the air. Breaking softer transfers the energy.
Click to expand...

Mostly, you're right--practice is good. However, there's a big difference between martial arts and pool. With pool, you can learn by getting crushed all day long, really! With martial arts, that's pretty tough for most people to do. So what works for one may not carry over to the other. In particular, the right amount of learning actual match experience is probably higher for pool.

Good luck.
 
I am 100% sure that bets way to improve your game is to play against better players, but this will improve your game in total and mind thinking.
To practice something "technical" you need to just go to table and shot same shoot over and over and over again cause during game you can not practice different shooting techniques.
Practice game overall - play against better players
Practice technical shots - solo shooting balls for 100000 times

This is how I am improving my game, maybe someone have different way :)
 
You can play better players all day, but if you don't have proper fundamentals and a repeatable stroke, you'll need to compensate to overcome those deficiencies and will hit a wall eventually.
I think the emphasis on proper fundamentals first is the main difference between European and American pool, and why Europe has become dominant over the past few years, although Mark Wilson is doing his part to change that.
 
I've said the following line for so many years, I am not sure who first made the statement as it was not mine originally, but, when asked personally from a player with a similar statement, I reply simply by stating that " When you've made as many shots as I have missed, your getting close " in reference of how much practice or shooting it takes to be a master player.
 
Someone once told me it takes 10,000 hours to become great, and that a guy quit his job to put 10k hours in playing golf with the belief that he would make it to the pro circuit. This may be true, and that guy who quit his job may reap the rewards but there is a big difference in the two sports. You have opponents in golf but you cant influence the outcome of what they do, or make then choose a shot based on what you have done. In pool you can. So getting match practice is vital. As is getting the basics down, so that under pressure in those vital matches they don't fall apart. You only achieve this through repetition. The most efficient way to do this is to spend more time at the table, ie by yourself. But you have to find the balance between practice and game time. Don't listen to those guys in the pool hall who state you have to play better players. It just means your going to learn to lose a lot. Play players at your standard, once you can beat them consistently then move to the next level of players and so on. It keeps the state of mind healthy if you come close to winning, it makes you want to improve and get the guy next time. Playing someone far better just puts you in the wrong frame of mind. Its either damn, i wish i could play like that, but doubt you ever will or screw this he's kicking my arse, why bother.

Anyway, keep up the practice and have as much fun as you can in the process!
 
Something I read once that made sense is that you need a balance between competing and practicing. When you are starting out or changing something the balance is heavily shifted towards practice. So when starting out you should practice 90-100% of the time. As your skills improve that should gradually shift so that you are competing more. When you are a good player and have mastered most of the fundamentals you should spend less time practicing and more time competing. Pro/elite players, according to this book should spend most of their time competing with short/intense practice sessions to keep sharp or add a new shot for game situations.
 
Sounds like you know exactly what you're doing. Don't worry about the others. There will no be a shortage of people with great ideas on how to get better; just ask them... sounds like your on the right track. Practice, practice and also play. I do the same and my game has improved significantly. Oh and I don't gamble either.
 
I've got a small marital arts background and use the training concepts a lot.

The thing is to improve in both arts reqiures training, practice and competition.

As you grow in pool, you practice and train on different skills based on where you are now and where you want to be. Belt system.

You must play better players. This is the only way to see if your training and practicing methods are effective and the only way to see where your current weaknesses are.

Also as you grow in skill there needs to be a shift from physical to mental. Cause in the end, it all comes down to what's happening between the ears.
 
ddadams said:
Lately I've been really trying to change my fundamentals a bit to improve them and a BIG change was my stance and entire alignment.

I found out I was completely off and have since started to straighten everything out, the right way this time.

Well I've been doing nothing BUT practicing and doing drills for about a month and a half or so now.

I play in APA and Valley so I get my "playing" in there. I'm a 6/7 in APA and averaged a Valley SL8-9 most of the session. I'm OK but not great yet.


Lately I've been getting a lot of shit basically from the regulars at the pool hall I play in and it's just getting annoying hearing the same thing over and over.

"You're never gonna get any better by doing that, you need to play"

"Playing people is the only way to get that stuff in your head"

"You need to gamble more, that's how you get better"



Well, I come from a martial arts background and I'll tell you for a fact that it's important to spar and get some fights in, but what's way more important is to be able to kick someone with as fluid and good of form as you can do in practice.

The only way to do that is to practice it over and over and over and over non-stop til you can do it automatically.



Isn't it the same for pool?

Most of the regulars and "good" players at this place are maybe a ball ahead of me at most. There's only a couple of guys that are genuinely great players that come in there. So most of the advice and "tips" I get there I just ignore. Yeah they've played longer, but when someone there told me I "broke too hard" after loose racking me, I stopped taking the advice.

Yeah. 9 of the 15 balls didn't move in an 8 ball rack because according to him and another one of the "best" players there, if you break too hard you lose energy if/when the cue ball pops in the air. Breaking softer transfers the energy.
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Most of the answers you will get here are from anonymous people. You don't know how they play or if they are successful or not in their games. Yet they will give you advice as if they know what they are talking about. Half the time they are simply repeating what they heard someone else say. As for the other half of the time, who knows? Remember, they are anonymous for a reason.

My advice to you is to get it from the horses' mouths. Pick 4 or 5 players that you look up to and ask them how they got to where they are. If you could get to a pro event and talk to some pros it would be even better. Don't be afraid to walk up to a pro and ask for a few minutes of their time.

Everyone has their own journey in this game, but by asking some people you can trust, you may find some common threads that can help you along in your own personal journey.
 
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Compare the improvement you've seen in your game over the last 2 years to the improvement most any of the poolroom regulars have made over the same time period. Most people aren't truly interested in getting better so their opinions on your methodology are dubious at best.

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You've hit on an attitude that is common in pool and also in life. It's a kind of anti-rationality attitude that I think is so dumb and so destructive.

You know from martial arts that you have to learn good form. Any elite athlete does the same - golf is a good example, but it applies in any sport.

And of course you have to play in pressure situations, but what your buddies are saying is that you shouldn't practice or try to learn good fundamentals. But playing and practicing are obviously not mutually exclusive you can do both!

I also think it's related to the sport vs. hustler divide in pool. There's a romantic vision of the drunk, sometimes-broke sometimes-flush pool hustler who can play great but is an irresponsible gambler. Learning proper form would be looked down on by that type.
 
Great players practice. I was matching a live stream. Between matches a player was hitting balls. He would set up a shot and kept missing. Once he made the shot he would set up another shot and repeat. The announcer said. That's the difference between pros and amateurs. An amateur will shoot until the make it. A pro will shoot until they can't miss. Practice vs matches is about your mentality doing either. If you practice with goals like starting over if you miss or how many can you make. Your creating competitive practice against yourself. Your toughest opponent. What's the old saying. Your playing the table, not your opponent.

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You must master the fundamentals before you can master any other aspect of the sport.

You're not wrong in your thinking.
 
ddadams said:
Lately I've been really trying to change my fundamentals a bit to improve them and a BIG change was my stance and entire alignment.

I found out I was completely off and have since started to straighten everything out, the right way this time.

Well I've been doing nothing BUT practicing and doing drills for about a month and a half or so now.

I play in APA and Valley so I get my "playing" in there. I'm a 6/7 in APA and averaged a Valley SL8-9 most of the session. I'm OK but not great yet.


Lately I've been getting a lot of shit basically from the regulars at the pool hall I play in and it's just getting annoying hearing the same thing over and over.

"You're never gonna get any better by doing that, you need to play"

"Playing people is the only way to get that stuff in your head"

"You need to gamble more, that's how you get better"



Well, I come from a martial arts background and I'll tell you for a fact that it's important to spar and get some fights in, but what's way more important is to be able to kick someone with as fluid and good of form as you can do in practice.

The only way to do that is to practice it over and over and over and over non-stop til you can do it automatically.



Isn't it the same for pool?

Most of the regulars and "good" players at this place are maybe a ball ahead of me at most. There's only a couple of guys that are genuinely great players that come in there. So most of the advice and "tips" I get there I just ignore. Yeah they've played longer, but when someone there told me I "broke too hard" after loose racking me, I stopped taking the advice.

Yeah. 9 of the 15 balls didn't move in an 8 ball rack because according to him and another one of the "best" players there, if you break too hard you lose energy if/when the cue ball pops in the air. Breaking softer transfers the energy.
Click to expand...



YES!

randyg
 
FranCrimi said:
Most of the answers you will get here are from anonymous people. You don't know how they play or if they are successful or not in their games. Yet they will give you advice as if they know what they are talking about. Half the time they are simply repeating what they heard someone else say. As for the other half of the time, who knows? Remember, they are anonymous for a reason.

My advice to you is to get it from the horses' mouths. Pick 4 or 5 players that you look up to and ask them how they got to where they are. If you could get to a pro event and talk to some pros it would be even better. Don't be afraid to walk up to a pro and ask for a few minutes of their time.

Everyone has their own journey in this game, but by asking some people you can trust, you may find some common threads that can help you along in your own personal journey.
Click to expand...


Well, Fran, how about you then?

I've heard nothing but spectacular things about you and your advice from members on here. Being totally serious, mind you. A few people I know on here said to listen to your posts in the ask the instructor subforum.


I've talked to you before a while ago when I was switching other things up and you did help me with what I asked.

I would PM you instead but I'd rather your advice be public if possible to help those who won't ask but do also need help.


I'm extremely demanding of myself and fully plan on and expect to get to a very high level of play, which is why I am focusing almost exclusively on fixing my fundamentals up. Namely, the biggest issue I've had that has persisted through two instructors and anything at all is my visual alignment and physical alignment.

It's VERY rare for the shot to look right to me when I'm actually aligned correctly.

Part of the reason is my head placement, which I've started to really get down.

The other huge part was my back hand holding the cue too far inside towards my body. Which I'm also trying to fix.


But I think the biggest issue which has slipped through the cracks of everyone I've ever asked to watch me was my entire backswing.


I was kind of mad the other day when it just came to me out of nowhere and I realized what I've been doing wrong for the entire 2 years I've been playing. I didn't get how nobody had noticed before until I video taped myself and realized that I don't think it was possible for anyone to SEE what I was doing. It was something only I could physically feel.


I almost don't know how to explain it, but basically instead of letting my back swing come from my elbow/bicep(?) In a free flowing motion I have been using my entire forearm and every muscle in my arm to try and keep my whole arm as stable and "still" as possible in the stroking line.

I was entirely tense. The whole time.


After I realized that and started to kind of "snap" my arm from my elbow basically I taped it and saw how much straighter it was almost immediately.

I've been using the Third Eye stroke trainer and doing various long straight in's now to try and get used to not being so tense and to really work on my aim and alignment.

My stroke is significantly straighter, but now if I'm out of line I'm really missing bad because my muscles aren't compensating and shoving the cue one way or another subconsciously like before. Its just going mostly straight.


So I marked the carpet where I stand in my proper stance aligned to a cross corner long straight in and have been practicing that for 3-4 hours a day for the last week since I figured it out.


What would you recommend I do from here?

The shots from this position are finally actually looking right and are right. I'm starting to finally see what the hell center ball actually is.


Should I really even bother playing for now? Or get this so imbued in my head that it's as natural as my old stroke was, or even better hopefully.


I'm a huge fan of any and all drills. So any drills you would recommend are greatly appreciated as well.

Thanks everyone else as well,

Danny
 
It's been said 101 different ways... yes, the fundamentals. Yes, the practice. Yes, the study and discipline. Yes, an instructor. Once you have all of those checked off and "in the case" so-to-speak, what will take you to a different level from whatever plateau you are currently on - and most likely MAKE the difference, is --- a MENTOR. A mentor that you get along with and respect - that you have access to regularly - a mentor that absolutely loves to tell you what they are thinking and WHY they are thinking it when THEY are playing you in the games that you play. It's the mental part of this game and the way you think that can take you to the higher levels. So I've heard :-D


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K2Kraze said:
It's been said 101 different ways... yes, the fundamentals. Yes, the practice. Yes, the study and discipline. Yes, an instructor. Once you have all of those checked off and "in the case" so-to-speak, what will take you to a different level from whatever plateau you are currently on - and most likely MAKE the difference, is --- a MENTOR. A mentor that you get along with and respect - that you have access to regularly - a mentor that absolutely loves to tell you what they are thinking and WHY they are thinking it when THEY are playing you in the games that you play. It's the mental part of this game and the way you think that can take you to the higher levels. So I've heard :-D


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Click to expand...


I wish I had a mentor.

I would give so much up to have access to someone at a professional level on a regular basis to help me get to where I want to go.
 
You're talking about two different objectives...hence, two different improvement plans.

The Physical
The first objective is to improve the fundamentals of your game. You're on the right track for that. Sitting in a chair, watching a better player does nothing for your fundamentals.

The Mental
I think the older players are referring to the second objective because it's the one that people often overlook: Overcoming the jitters while playing a good opponent. Your fundamentals can be great, but it all falls apart when the chips are down. Rushing shots, making poor judgements, missing relatively easy balls/positions, etc. It's a matter of overcoming your nerves.

Unfortunately, there's no system, method or practice routine that teaches you to overcome your nerves. It's a trial-and-error process of jumping into the fray and see what works for you. Personally, if I'm in the chair I just keep telling myself "If you let me back at the table, I'm going to wipe you out." It helps me focus on the future...not the bad shot that got me into the chair.
 
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