So what is considered a high end cue ?

[Bigb'scues]

I mostly agree. However, I think the cue maker must be at a significantly "high end" base level for this to be true. You can't say a "stepped up" scorpion cue or players cue is high end, even if its the best cue from that company.

I think that the lack of standardized terms and definitions amongst the world of
Cues (and cue collecting) has obliviously lead to the array of opinions that have surfaced in this thread. I believe that there is a separation between the term "High end" and "Top Tier" which should be used more to describe cues made by i.e. Bushka, Gus , searing, Barry etc....the list goes on. my point being is that the term "High end" can be used on any tier of the cue making world.... including Production cues.

Think of 2 sets of pyramids that represent All Cues. One pyramid is for production cues and the other is for "Full" custom made cues.

At the bottom of production pyramid is "Kmart" at the top are company's like Schon, Jacoby, Joss, Exceed....etc the list goes on. Each of these has a "High End" model in their catalog.

At the bottom of the "full" Custom pyramid you have "Guy in his garage" and at the top you have people like the ones I listed above...all of them from the bottom to the top have "High End" cues that they produce

Ken Kerner would be better off changing his company name to "Top Tier Cues" IMO. J/k

 

[Jdm34]

It seems to me that everyone almost agrees and disagrees with 2 things.

there is high end for playing and high end for collecting they are 2 different categories. I am a player not a collector or dealer. I like to try new cues to feel the difference. I have owned both production and custom cues. for me a high end player verse a high end collectable are different categories.

and we all know that know one agrees on high end player cause everyone likes what they like. but high end collectable sure reputation and materials used and amount of inlays etc determine top dollar can define high end. I know that if 2 cue makers make the same cue same materials the value will not be the same due to reputation there is a ton of Bushka copies made by various cue makers an a huge variation in value

 

[jasonlaus]

I have NEVER heard of a cue "playing" high end. When it comes to playability high end is not a term used - hits a ton, plays lights out, etc. All bullcrap of course. You won't find 3 people in a group of 10 that would agree on the "playability" of a cue.

Fit and finish is something people can agree on(if they really know about cues) I would say that most on here do not.

The reason I say this is that there have been MANY cues posted on here and everybody lines up to blow the guy, when in fact there are gaps everywhere, points are uneven, rings don't line up, etc. Some of these cues are from the "top makers"
Jason

 

[pocketsplitter]

I think that the lack of standardized terms and definitions amongst the world of
Cues (and cue collecting) has obliviously lead to the array of opinions that have surfaced in this thread. I believe that there is a separation between the term "High end" and "Top Tier" which should be used more to describe cues made by i.e. Bushka, Gus , searing, Barry etc....the list goes on. my point being is that the term "High end" can be used on any tier of the cue making world.... including Production cues.

Think of 2 sets of pyramids that represent All Cues. One pyramid is for production cues and the other is for "Full" custom made cues.

At the bottom of production pyramid is "Kmart" at the top are company's like Schon, Jacoby, Joss, Exceed....etc the list goes on. Each of these has a "High End" model in their catalog.

At the bottom of the "full" Custom pyramid you have "Guy in his garage" and at the top you have people like the ones I listed above...all of them from the bottom to the top have "High End" cues that they produce

Ken Kerner would be better off changing his company name to "Top Tier Cues" IMO. J/k

I think I agree if we read "high-end" literally. But in this day and age, "high-end" is synonymous with top tier, in that it describes some level of superiority relative to the rest of the field as well, not just one producers own products. I think if you step into a "high-end" department store you won't find a the best suit Zara has ever made.

 

[MuchoBurrito]

I have NEVER heard of a cue "playing" high end. When it comes to playability high end is not a term used - hits a ton, plays lights out, etc. All bullcrap of course. You won't find 3 people in a group of 10 that would agree on the "playability" of a cue.

Fit and finish is something people can agree on(if they really know about cues) I would say that most on here do not.

The reason I say this is that there have been MANY cues posted on here and everybody lines up to blow the guy, when in fact there are gaps everywhere, points are uneven, rings don't line up, etc. Some of these cues are from the "top makers"
Jason

Well, I think that's demonstrably false. This is to say that there are NO objective aspects of cues that make some "better" than others. If so, let's just all play with house cues and buy cues ONLY for their collectiblility, and leave them at home.

By this reasoning any house cue plays every bit as good as a Predator REVO. And that, seeing as how every aspect of the playability of a cue is purely a matter of personal opinion, approximately the same number of people will play better with the house cue than with the REVO.

That's like saying there's "no such thing" as a golf club, hockey stick or tennis racquet that's objectively better than any other. Now, the fact that golfers, hockey players and tennis players can do things with today's technology that was all but impossible 30 or 40 years ago, is evidence that that's not true. A current Taylor Made Hybrid is objectively better than a steel shaft/head model from 2000. It's more forgiving, has a bigger sweet spot, will hit out of the rough much easier, etc. etc. etc.

Of course there's a large degree of subjectivity to all pieces of equipment, but that doesn't mean that there aren't some objective differences as well.

As I said before, your definition of "high end" is that of an art collector. (Made by a famous guy, has expensive materials in it, etc.) Which is fine. But now you're talking art. Not pool.

 

[MuchoBurrito]

I'm actually surprised at how pretentious this conversation is. Like people who only consider $500+ bottles of wine to be "good" wine, regardless of how they taste.

 

[jasonlaus]

Well, I think that's demonstrably false. This is to say that there are NO objective aspects of cues that make some "better" than others. If so, let's just all play with house cues and buy cues ONLY for their collectiblility, and leave them at home.

By this reasoning any house cue plays every bit as good as a Predator REVO. And that, seeing as how every aspect of the playability of a cue is purely a matter of personal opinion, approximately the same number of people will play better with the house cue than with the REVO.

That's like saying there's "no such thing" as a golf club, hockey stick or tennis racquet that's objectively better than any other. Now, the fact that golfers, hockey players and tennis players can do things with today's technology that was all but impossible 30 or 40 years ago, is evidence that that's not true. A current Taylor Made Hybrid is objectively better than a steel shaft/head model from 2000. It's more forgiving, has a bigger sweet spot, will hit out of the rough much easier, etc. etc. etc.

Of course there's a large degree of subjectivity to all pieces of equipment, but that doesn't mean that there aren't some objective differences as well.

As I said before, your definition of "high end" is that of an art collector. (Made by a famous guy, has expensive materials in it, etc.) Which is fine. But now you're talking art. Not pool.

Things are what they are, you not liking it doesn't change that fact.
Jason

 

[jasonlaus]

I'm actually surprised at how pretentious this conversation is. Like people who only consider $500+ bottles of wine to be "good" wine, regardless of how they taste.

I think you're missing the point entirely. You're so wrapped up in the price of the cue that you can't see that there is actually a difference in the quality and desirability of a cue.

I guess you'd rather drive a camero than a ferrari?
Jason

 

[skins]

I'm actually surprised at how pretentious this conversation is. Like people who only consider $500+ bottles of wine to be "good" wine, regardless of how they taste.

Why do you think those bottles of wine are $500+? Do you think the sellers, and the buyers (because they're paying that), know something YOU don't?

"Taste" has many aspects that need consideration before forming an EDUCATED decision.

 

[jasonlaus]

The thread is about what is considered a high end cue.

Many(that know cues) have told you what a high end cue is, yet you wan't to keep going back to playability - that is another thread, and it will never be agreed upon.

Now you're butthurt because "high end" cues cost more money. Everything in life that is high end costs more money, always has always will.

The market sets the price, not people on here wishing they had a high end cue.
Jason

 

[jburkm002]

As long as everybody remembers. What you see as high end is just a pool cue to 95%+ of other pool players.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[jasonlaus]

Why do you think those bottles of wine are $500+? Do you think the sellers, and the buyers (because they're paying that), know something YOU don't?

"Taste" has many aspects that need consideration before forming an EDUCATED decision.

It's because they're pretentious. Didn't he already tell you? it has nothing to do with quality

Educated is the word of the day.
Jason

 

[jasonlaus]

As long as everybody remembers. What you see as high end is just a pool cue to 95%+ of other pool players.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Just like a Ferrari is a "cute" car to girls? Doesn't change the fact that it is high end.
Jason

Btw, I'm off work till at least January so I have nothing better to do

 

[jburkm002]

True but a Ferrari can been see from a pretty good distance. I pool cue loses its value/craftsmanship about every 12" you step away from it.

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[jasonlaus]

True but a Ferrari can been see from a pretty good distance. I pool cue loses its value/craftsmanship about every 12" you step away from it.

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If you say so

Alot of cues look better the further you get away from them

 

[skins]

True but a Ferrari can been see from a pretty good distance. I pool cue loses its value/craftsmanship about every 12" you step away from it.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

I guess you can say the same for Rolex too right?..

 

[MuchoBurrito]

The thread is about what is considered a high end cue.

Many(that know cues) have told you what a high end cue is, yet you wan't to keep going back to playability - that is another thread, and it will never be agreed upon.

Now you're butthurt because "high end" cues cost more money. Everything in life that is high end costs more money, always has always will.

The market sets the price, not people on here wishing they had a high end cue.
Jason

Lol

We fundamentally disagree on whether to consider how the cue actually plays, or what the cue looks like, as the aspect for consideration.

I think that what matters most in a cue in terms of it's QUALITY is how it plays. You think what matter most in terms of it's "quality" is who made it and what it looks like.

We're talking past each other here. I'm treating the cue as a piece of equipment to play good pool with, you're treating the cue as a collectible piece of art.

The reason I don't agree with your opinion (and yes Jason, it is just your opinion, thanks for contributing it to this thread) is that carrying it to its logical conclusion, we could have a cue that is literally unplayable for whatever reason (it's got a diamond encrusted ferrule or something) that you would consider "high end", despite the fact that you couldn't even play pool with it.

 

[jasonlaus]

Lol

We fundamentally disagree on whether to consider how the cue actually plays, or what the cue looks like, as the aspect for consideration.

I think that what matters most in a cue in terms of it's QUALITY is how it plays. You think what matter most in terms of it's "quality" is who made it and what it looks like.

We're talking past each other here. I'm treating the cue as a piece of equipment to play good pool with, you're treating the cue as a collectible piece of art.

The reason I don't agree with your opinion (and yes Jason, it is just your opinion, thanks for contributing it to this thread) is that carrying it to its logical conclusion, we could have a cue that is literally unplayable for whatever reason (it's got a diamond encrusted ferrule or something) that you would consider "high end", despite the fact that you couldn't even play pool with it.

You will never understand
Jason

 

[jasonlaus]

Lol

We fundamentally disagree on whether to consider how the cue actually plays, or what the cue looks like, as the aspect for consideration.

I think that what matters most in a cue in terms of it's QUALITY is how it plays. You think what matter most in terms of it's "quality" is who made it and what it looks like.

We're talking past each other here. I'm treating the cue as a piece of equipment to play good pool with, you're treating the cue as a collectible piece of art.

The reason I don't agree with your opinion (and yes Jason, it is just your opinion, thanks for contributing it to this thread) is that carrying it to its logical conclusion, we could have a cue that is literally unplayable for whatever reason (it's got a diamond encrusted ferrule or something) that you would consider "high end", despite the fact that you couldn't even play pool with it.

I'm not sure where you live and I haven't played in abou 5/6 months, but if you're close I'd be more than happy to play some sets with you to show you that I do understand playabillity of a cue.
Jason

I'm in Baltimore right now

 

[MuchoBurrito]

Why do you think those bottles of wine are $500+? Do you think the sellers, and the buyers (because they're paying that), know something YOU don't?

"Taste" has many aspects that need consideration before forming an EDUCATED decision.

Well, as Jason pointed out, the market sets prices. Sometimes those prices correlate with certain aspects of quality, other times it simply reflects the degree to which a small clique of people covet the item as a signal of status.

In wine, there is no bottle of wine that costs more than $20 to produce (I have wine makers and sommeliers in my family), yet they can sell for thousands of dollars. The fact is that in clinical trials, even trained sommeliers cannot distinguish expensive from relatively inexpensive wine (once you get over the $20 a bottle threshold).

The reason bottles sell for thousands of dollars has nothing to do with the intrinsic properties of the wine. Studies show people can't taste the difference (that's actually empirically verified), the market (ie. a small clique of people who use wine to signify status) are paying a premium for said status. They stopped paying for wine at around $40 or $50.

And I do love wine btw, especially Valpolicella, I am not slamming wine here any more than I'm trying to diminish the beauty of a priceless custom cue. I'm certainly NOT saying that it's not "high end".