So what is considered a high end cue ?

To me, the term high end is meaningless other than as a general aside as a compliment
for a good looking cue design or a famous name cue-maker. It's like the term top shelf
when it comes to booze in a bar.......the higher up on the behind the bar shelving, the
more expensive, better was the booze....it generally referred to it as a better quality liquor.

High end cues is in the same genre......the price or fancy design, famous name cue-maker,
rare wood or some other highly distinguishing feature but nonetheless, in the final analysis,
it's a obscure reference used to compliment a cue. I've found most persons relate this to price.


Matt B.
 
High end is relative to what is being compared. South West IS a high end cue compared to all the others that look similar... Just like a Szam is high end to all the other facsimiles out there... My $.02
 
High end is desirability, if the cue is ever put up for auction. Bushka's, Gus's, Searing's, Schick's, and a host of others, not limited to Barry, Scruggs, Joss, Josswest, Gina, Hercek, Manzino, Southwest, and a bunch of others.

By the way, high end can be a fairly plain cue. We still haven't seen the Rambow up for auction used by Mosconi to run 526. That would be a fairly plain cue, by current standards. But, it would be high end. Desirability.

All the best,
WW
 
Hi end and low end are price descriptors. What makes a cue one or the other, is going to vary on the usage, and the maker.

As someone else said, there are high end and low end Szambotis, as well as high end and low end production cues. The difference is a low end Szamboti is in the 8-9k range, and a low end production cue could be 400-500.

However at some point, ROI will come into play, and a high end production cue might have more limitations in that area. Is a one of 7 or a 1 of 25 Schon going to compete with a SW? Not likely...

If you're willing to pay for a high end production cue, and you like it, and it makes you happy, go for it. But depending on the price, you might have better options. I don't tell people what to buy, its your money. Every time I try to stop someone from buying bad, they ignore me anyways.. then ask me to sell it for them later. :)

JV
 
jasonlaus said:
There's no such thing as a high end production cue...no matter what it costs. Just as there is no such thing as a low end Szamboti, Searing etc.
Jason


A high end car is a Ferrari, Lambo, Bugatti, etc. With very few exceptions is there a production car maker with a high end car in their lineup. Z06 corvette, nissan GTR yes. Escalade, etc. No. There's still Rangerover autobiography,Mercedes G 65, porsche cayane turbo
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I think that's ridiculous.

If that's the case, there are a lot of top pro's playing with "low-end" (ie. production) cues.

IMO paying 1000's of $$$ for a cue has nothing to do with pool, you're not paying for playability or tech, you're paying for pearl inlays and other bull*** that have literally, like literally, nothing at all to do with playing the game of pool.

It's a piece of equipment, not a piece of art. If it plays high end, it's a high end cue IMO.
 
MuchoBurrito said:
I think that's ridiculous.

If that's the case, there are a lot of top pro's playing with "low-end" (ie. production) cues.

IMO paying 1000's of $$$ for a cue has nothing to do with pool, you're not paying for playability or tech, you're paying for pearl inlays and other bull*** that have literally, like literally, nothing at all to do with playing the game of pool.

It's a piece of equipment, not a piece of art. If it plays high end, it's a high end cue IMO.
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Sell your production cue for 70% or more than retail price. That's what I thought, enough said.

You have no idea what high end means
Jason

Edit. You were right up until you said it's not a piece of art(mostly) cuetec is not a high end cue - used by maybe the best player on the planet. There are a lot of good descriptions on here
 
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Cuesticks, are much like cars in that, once they are a few yrs. old, their MSRP may have little effect on their sale price at auction!..Rarity and desirability, will then take over, and control its selling price!..Once a collector, (usually with unlimited funds) purchases a 'high end' item, its true value becomes of little consequence, to anyone but another collector!..The item will then usually become unaffordable to the average buyer!

The small niche market for 'high end' cuesticks is quite unique, in that very few of them (Szam's, Buska's, Rambow's, etc.) sold originally for more than a few hundred dollars!..It has taken many years for them to appreciate, to the tens of thousands some sell for now!..However, just like a rare Mercedes or Porshe, they will become desirable to a collector, based on the cue makers reputation for quality, rarity, and desirability!

I had assumed most people, knew all this, but I had a little spare time, and I just wanted to reiterate it for a few of the earlier posters, who seemed upset about the prices of 'high end cues'!..There is, and always will be, a big difference between a 'high priced item' and a 'collector item'!..And sorry fellas, thats not likely to ever change!

PS..I remember I ordered my first Rambow (directly from Herman himself on the phone) about fifty-some years ago..Nothing fancy, just a 4 pointer, with a few ivory inlays..It came about 3 weeks later, it was $42 (including shipping) I think I sold it a few yrs. later, for $40!..Do I wish I still had it?...Ha,ha, just the shipping carton it came in, is probably worth a fewK to a collector, now!..The actual stick itself, may well now be worth more than a new Corvette! :rolleyes:
 
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mortuarymike-nv said:
The one cue I thought was high end may not really be that high end of a cue because resale was down on the cue ...

Pre omega cues sale for thousand and the guys who made them made the original SW cues and they are not high end ??
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This quoted piece doesn't make any sense. Reads like so much misinformation.

What do you believe would be a "pre omega"? I know what it is, but I don't think you do.

Who do you believe are the "guys who made the original SW"? They certainly weren't the "guys who made (pre omegas)."

Hint: Kersenbrock never a built a cue nor had input into the cue structural design for Omega/dpk until long after Mike Bender left (and even at that, Kersenbrock may have had little input when hewas there with Matt Bender at the helm)

And Kersenbrock never built a Southwest cue. But the rumor still continues.



Freddie <~~~ disppeller of rumors
 
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Cornerman said:
This quoted piece doesn't make any sense. Reads like so much misinformation.

What do you believe would be a "pre omega"? I know what it is, but I don't think you do.

Who do you believe are the "guys who made the original SW"? They certainly weren't the "guys who made (pre omegas)."

Hint: Kersenbrock never a built a cue nor had input into the cue structural design for Omega/dpk until long after Mike Bender left. And Kersenbrock never built a Southwest cue. But the rumor still continues.



Freddie <~~~ disppeller of rumors
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I believe he just worded himself wrong...he was obviously talking about Kersenbrock who was an integral part of the founding of and inspiration of SW cues (his solo cues sell for just as much if not more than SW of similar style)

Omega was Bender and Boado (and later joined by DPK)
 
High End Cues is the name of a business owned by AZber Ken Kerner. He's owned this business longer than most AZer would ever think about buying a cue. Instead of prattling about what you all think a high end cue is, I'd just let Ken tell me what his thinking is.

And of course it's subjective, as is the term "Monster Cue." But Ken owns High End Cues, so he gets to choose. On Facebook, you'll notice joevan uses a different term (Premium Custom Cues). Maybe Joe can tell us what he defines as a premium custom (which he nicely and loosely defined on that page).

Freddie <~~~ middle ender
 
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Bigb'scues said:
I believe he just worded himself wrong...he was obviously talking about Kersenbrock who was an integral part of the founding of and inspiration of SW cues (his solo cues sell for just as much if not more than SW of similar style)

Omega was Bender and Boado (and later joined by DPK)
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I think Mike made his point just fine.

He need not be the most eloquent guy to do so, and I think he likely did just word himself wrong in that regard. I really don't think he is disseminating misinformation.


I like the topic he brought up. It's a great one to knock around and discuss. I gave him a greenie for it. :thumbup:


For the record: Mike is a great guy. Seriously. A solid character. No bull. We are fortunate to have guys like him around here.




.
 
Bigb'scues said:
High end is not relative to $ imo

I.e. A regular standard Gus is about 7-10k still very expensive but a "high end" Gus can be 100k


High end to me is when a cue maker steps out of their simple designs and add exotic materials and construction. The price of the high end stuff for any cue make will be proportional to what their cues command
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I mostly agree. However, I think the cue maker must be at a significantly "high end" base level for this to be true. You can't say a "stepped up" scorpion cue or players cue is high end, even if its the best cue from that company.
 
Cornerman said:
High End Cues is the name of a business owned by AZber Ken Kershner. He's owned this business longer than most AZer would ever think about buying a cue. Instead of prattling about what you all think a high end cue is, I'd just let Ken tell me what his thinking is.

And of course it's subjective, as is the term "Monster Cue." But Ken owns High End Cues, so he gets to choose. On Facebook, you'll notice joevan uses a different term (Premium Custom Cues). Maybe Joe can tell us what he defines as a premium custom (which he nicely and loosely defined on that page).

Freddie <~~~ middle ender
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There is an interesting aspect!


Has he registered the phrase with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO)?

If not...maybe he should get on that!

And...if he has not, I think that steals some thunder from your position...but it does not steal all of it. :smile:


Great point! :thumbup:





.
 
Cornerman said:
High End Cues is the name of a business owned by AZber Ken Kershner. He's owned this business longer than most AZer would ever think about buying a cue. Instead of prattling about what you all think a high end cue is, I'd just let Ken tell me what his thinking is.

And of course it's subjective, as is the term "Monster Cue." But Ken owns High End Cues, so he gets to choose. On Facebook, you'll notice joevan uses a different term (Premium Custom Cues). Maybe Joe can tell us what he defines as a premium custom (which he nicely and loosely defined on that page).

Freddie <~~~ middle ender
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Lol. It's Kerner.......but then again who am I to correct .... you seem to know everything
 
jasonlaus said:
Sell your production cue for 70% or more than retail price. That's what I thought, enough said.

You have no idea what high end means
Jason

Edit. You were right up until you said it's not a piece of art(mostly) cuetec is not a high end cue - used by maybe the best player on the planet. There are a lot of good descriptions on here
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You're right about cue tech not being high end, I think Stephen Hendry won 3 or 4 world championships with a $15 cue as well.

My point was about the how they play. If a cue PLAYS high end, then IMO it's a high end cue. And I wouldn't say that Cue Tech plays particularly high end (although apparently it's perfectly adequate, which should be a lesson to us all come to think about it.)

Now I'm not saying that a $10,000 custom ISN'T high end, it obviously it just on price alone. But that's kind of my point. Most of the criteria that people are using to define "high end" have nothing to do with how the cue plays, and how other cues play. These criteria are all based on the name of the cue maker, the inlays, the gold/silver/diamond/whatever on the butt, how they appreciate over time, etc... None of that has anything to do with playing the game of pool. This is the kind of stuff that collectors and art enthusiasts talk about. That's not a discussion about a piece of equipment, it's a discussion about art.

So if a $500 Predator BK3 plays high end (which it certainly does, hence why it's probably the most widely used breaker by pro's on the planet), then it's a high end cue. The fact that it's mass produced and doesn't cost a fortune is irrelevant.
 
Once you start talking about the "value" of a cue being many $1000's, you stopped paying for playability a LONG time ago. Now you're talking about art.
 
it's relative and subjective.

depending on who you ask; some of my local bar league buddies think my $750 Olney is way high end.

serious cue collectors will obv have a much different opinion.

So I think this question has to be asked at least a couple of ways starting, for instance, with either:

To a bar banger what would he consider a blah blah blah

OR

To a cue connoisseur what would he consider a blah blah blah

all imo, of course... :)

best,
brian kc
 
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