SO.....what makes YOU better than ME????

T

tim913

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I see many players go to pool school, practice every day, get their own table so they can practice more, and they're still at the same old level. Find another pool school, that of course does it the RIGHT way, pay more money, practice more, and their still at the same old level, or maybe worse. Now they have so much to think about, they can't keep it all straight. THEN you watch all the pros paly, each one having a different stance, grip, follow thru...etc. If all it takes is sound fundamentals, they sure must have missed those classes. So what is it...natural ability, or is
there one thing that stands out above all others that they can say, 'I tried all that other stuff, but once I tried (THIS) my game changed completely. What is THIS? (in your opinion)

Thanks
 
tim913 said:
I see many players go to pool school, practice every day, get their own table so they can practice more, and they're still at the same old level. Find another pool school, that of course does it the RIGHT way, pay more money, practice more, and their still at the same old level, or maybe worse. Now they have so much to think about, they can't keep it all straight. THEN you watch all the pros play, each one having a different stance, grip, follow thru...etc. If all it takes is sound fundamentals, they sure must have missed those classes. So what is it...natural ability, or is
there one thing that stands out above all others that they can say, 'I tried all that other stuff, but once I tried (THIS) my game changed completely. What is THIS? (in your opinion)

Thanks
Click to expand...
Playing 10 hours a day when first learning to play. Or at least that's what did it for me.

I recall the first pool course I took -- about 1977. It was mostly concepts and I found I couldn't play a lick for a week or two afterwards as the ideas kept rattling around in my brain. Since I had no way to measure before and after performance, I have no way to know whether that course helped or not in the long run.

But I wish instruction had been available when I was starting. I think it would have done two things for me. First, a couple of fundamental mechanics problems continue to bother me (due to having grooved them for 10 hours a day a long time ago). Second, there are a lot of concepts that are obvious to me now that took a long time to figure out. Most of those concepts are now in print, but when I was starting the only book available was Mosconi's small (and flawed) "Winning Pocket Billiards."

As far as fundamentals and the variation you see among the pros, I think you need to start from the goals of sound mechanics. There are many ways to achieve those goals. Some people get stuck on the "one true way."
 
It's easy to look at individual cases and paint broad brush strokes, but things aren't so simple. Everyone is different, so that one thing can be any number of things, and each of those things might work for some but not others.

To make the best improvement in your game, you have to work on the right things for you. Often, my students feel they need to learn a specific shot, but their weakness is something else that severely interferes with learning that shot. Usually it's mechanics, but can also be a lack of understanding of basic things. An instructor can help you identify your weaknesses and then help you to improve them.

There are two parts to learning, the instruction and the student. Each is unique, and the better each one is, the better the results are. There are three learning styles (seeing, hearing, doing), so it's important that the instruction fits with the students learning style. Know yours.

For me, it wasn't any one thing. My biggest improvements came from 3 days with Randy Goettlicher and learning how to teach a wide variety of students.
 
Another piece of the puzzle is practice.

There are no magic bullets. It takes learning, and then practicing what you learned to improve. If you are not determined to improve their game, chances are you aren't going to practice. If you do practice, chances are you aren't practicing the right things the right way.

Practice does not make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect. - Vince Lombardi
 
Hola :)

i (like Bob said) also wished that i had a nice instructor right on the beginning. Just to get a good insturctional book was really difficult when i begun to play.
Just learnt with try and error until an old guy talked to me about stance and stroke. This was imo the key for me-furthermore ithen was able to watch him playing (he usualy ended already decade before with competition) but helped out in 1st division of a 3cushion team-league match. After seeing 140 kg by being 190 cm tall and still acting like Astaire.....this totally changed my mind, and from that point i started to think of technical things like stroke, alignment, stance etc.-

Next was talking to really great players- the sentence "Keep it simple* and *no time for negative* burned into my head, after meeting 2 american professionals here in germany in 80s/90s. With the passion to get knowledge about billiards the rest game.

The first part is the willing! you really have to want it badly and that you have fun while doing it. The difficult part is to find a qualfied person who helps you (and that you believe him!). If you have the willing, and a person to start it your never ending journey begins :)

lg
Ingo
 
Do not knock instruction, I truly believe if players were taught alignment and stroke prior to playing many hours could be saved to getting a to a solid game. If Game concepts and planning were taught first with no shooting, then progressing to shooting only the cue ball and finally shooting at object balls. If people would approach the game this way run-out players would be much more common.

Getting to an elite level is beyond just fundamentals it is desire and focus with commitment on every shot and in all phases of the game. This is achieved when it is your turn at the table and with observation of others when not shooting, the champion is always looking to learn one more thing and can put it to use on the table.

Here is a tip for you - Shoot soft with less object ball speed going into the pocket, more balls will end up in the hole.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Playing 10 hours a day when first learning to play. Or at least that's what did it for me.

I recall the first pool course I took -- about 1977. It was mostly concepts and I found I couldn't play a lick for a week or two afterwards as the ideas kept rattling around in my brain. Since I had no way to measure before and after performance, I have no way to know whether that course helped or not in the long run.

But I wish instruction had been available when I was starting. I think it would have done two things for me. First, a couple of fundamental mechanics problems continue to bother me (due to having grooved them for 10 hours a day a long time ago). Second, there are a lot of concepts that are obvious to me now that took a long time to figure out. Most of those concepts are now in print, but when I was starting the only book available was Mosconi's small (and flawed) "Winning Pocket Billiards."

As far as fundamentals and the variation you see among the pros, I think you need to start from the goals of sound mechanics. There are many ways to achieve those goals. Some people get stuck on the "one true way."
Click to expand...

Me too. When I began playing virtually noone would help you with your game. They all said something like, "Why should I teach you how to beat me?" So I began the long, arduous and frustrating journey of teaching myself how to play pool. I bought the few books available then, but I really would have benefited from some serious personal instruction. To this day I struggle with a couple bad habits that I had for years before I recognized them. Kids today don't realize how lucky they are...they have qualified instructors in most every town, videos, books, and sometimes television (when the tv execs have nothing else to show).
Yet I hear kids nowadays saying crap like, "I plan on getting a lesson, but I want to practice some more first" or "I just can't afford it right now" as they pour down their fifth or sixth $5 drink. I can't repeat this enough: IF YOU WANT TO BECOME A BETTER POOL PLAYER, THE FIRST THING TO DO IS GET A LESSON FROM A QUALIFIED INSTUCTOR.
Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
 
I guess some of you missed my point. If pool school, and practice was all there was to it, everyone would be a pro. Let's say we all go to pool school, and we all practice every day. I know many people who have gone to most of the pool schools around the midwest, myself included. They all practice many hours, so let's put all that in the 'gimme' category.
NOW, what is the one thing that you learned, or stumbled across, or had hit you in the face that makes YOU better than ME? thanks
 
tim913 said:
I guess some of you missed my point. If pool school, and practice was all there was to it, everyone would be a pro. Let's say we all go to pool school, and we all practice every day. I know many people who have gone to most of the pool schools around the midwest, myself included. They all practice many hours, so let's put all that in the 'gimme' category.
NOW, what is the one thing that you learned, or stumbled across, or had hit you in the face that makes YOU better than ME? thanks
Click to expand...

I think you are the one missing the point 10,000 hours of focused practice will make virtually anyone a highly rated run out player.

Instruction is fantastic for learning effective ways to practice but it does not replace table time.

the difference between me and you is I practice from 2-10 hours per day 5-6 times a week EVERY week and have done so for going on 5 years now..

most players are not as dedicated as I am they are not willing to put in the hours..

you see it all the time guy gets a lesson practices 3 or 4 times.. and complains because he's not the next Buddy Hall..

I firmly believe the EVERY pool player gets exactly as good as they are willing to get.

and I was willing to get better than you

there is no secret... no magic bullet

just table time.

sorry to disappoint you
 
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softshot said:
I think you are the one missing the point 10,000 hours of focused practice will make virtually anyone a highly rated run out player.

Instruction is fantastic for learning effective ways to practice but it does not replace table time.

the difference between me and you is I practice from 2-10 hours per day 5-6 times a week EVERY week and have done so for going on 5 years now..

most players are not as dedicated as I am they are not willing to put in the hours..

you see it all the time guy gets a lesson practices 3 or 4 times.. and complains because he's not the next Buddy Hall..

I firmly believe the EVERY pool player gets exactly as good as they are willing to get.

and I was willing to get better than you

there is no secret... no magic bullet

just table time.

sorry to disappoint you
Click to expand...

It's not supposed to be something personal! I know a lot of people who take lessons, and practice, some practice more than you. I'm trying to get some insight from some of the better players as to WHAT turned it around for them. I am not REALLY saying that YOU are better than ME or that I am better than YOU. Just saying that a lot of people take lessons, a lot of people practice for hours each day, but it has to be more than just the mechanics. Everyone keeps looking at it like I'm complaining. I have a 9 foot GC IV in my basement, and I practice around 3 hours each day. Some days family gets in the way, but I usually make it up. I have won local tournaments in the past, but don't get out much anymore, but I am quite happy with my game. I have never run 100 balls in 14.1, but I have come close a couple of times. It would be nice to hear from some of the better players as to what, besides the practice, and lessons, turned their game around.
 
tim913 said:
I guess some of you missed my point. If pool school, and practice was all there was to it, everyone would be a pro. Let's say we all go to pool school, and we all practice every day. I know many people who have gone to most of the pool schools around the midwest, myself included. They all practice many hours, so let's put all that in the 'gimme' category.
NOW, what is the one thing that you learned, or stumbled across, or had hit you in the face that makes YOU better than ME? thanks
Click to expand...

OK.

PERFECT PRACTICE ROUTINES.

randyg
 
Practice and instruction can only take a person so far. There has to be a level of hand eye coordination and TALENT to play at the top levels in pool.
People can get to a point X with the best instruction and put in the right practice, etc etc etc. They will play to their ability. They will never reach the same skill level as the pro players. Not saying they wont play better than they would have if they skipped the learning process.
Its like any other game or sport. Not every kid who throws a football can become Joe Montana.
Chuck
 
tim913 said:
I guess some of you missed my point. If pool school, and practice was all there was to it, everyone would be a pro. Let's say we all go to pool school, and we all practice every day. I know many people who have gone to most of the pool schools around the midwest, myself included. They all practice many hours, so let's put all that in the 'gimme' category.
NOW, what is the one thing that you learned, or stumbled across, or had hit you in the face that makes YOU better than ME? thanks
Click to expand...

People are different. Two students in the same classes will usually have different levels of success. Some can easily take what they have learned and implement it in their game. Others aren’t so lucky, and there can be a number of reasons why they only progress as far as they do.

It might be that they don’t fully understand the material. They aren’t determined to put in the time. They don’t know what to do when they can’t perform the drill successfully. They may be practicing the wrong things. They may have a weak mental game. They may still have gaps that they need to work on. They may not set goals or have plans for improvement. The list is endless.

If you're stuck, think about working with a coach.
 
I am a very new player (l've played for less than a year). I've played a great many sports over the years, so I am well aware of the value of expert instruction. So, when I decided to learn how to play pool, I decided to do it right (IMO). I took a lesson from Scott Lee. He spent the day with me having me hit balls and talking about pool and the stroke. He emphasized that the 'perfect stroke' is the stroke that works for me. The key was to keep it simple (he suggested I work to perfect my natural pendulum stroke) and to repeat the same preshot routine, and stroke on every shot.

I wish I could say that that lesson took me from rank beginner to expert in one short east step. Unfortunately, life just doesn't work that way. In order to 'perfect' my stroke I needed to put a lot of table time in (which I neglected for several months as life got in the way). However, I can say that focusing on solid fundamentals has allowed me to beat many players who are much better players than me. Simply because I knew what I is and isn't within my current skill level.

I am confident that my game will continue to improve as I gain experience. I have no doubt that in another years time I will be 2 or 3 balls better than I am now. And I attribute it all to the foundation I learned from Scott.

My moral of the story is:"If you build on a solid foundation you can build as high as you are willing, provided you put in the time necessary to insure the level you build on is rock solid. If it isn't you know you can always go back a level and make the adjustments needed to get it solid."
 
It's the personality of the player that will take them to a higher level than other players. Don't shrug off the self esteem issue. Most people have low self esteem. I see it all the time in students. ALL THE TIME. The problem is that they are in denial about it. When you have low self esteem, you do not want to face what's wrong with your game. You just dance around it superficially because facing the truth is painful, particularly to those who have fragile egos. Oh sure, they think they are facing their issues on the table but they aren't. Not really.

I can spot a winner before he hits a ball. Why? PERSONALITY. I'm not kidding. Ever notice that people who play really well can do a lot of things really well?
 
FranCrimi said:
It's the personality of the player that will take them to a higher level than other players. Don't shrug off the self esteem issue. Most people have low self esteem. I see it all the time in students. ALL THE TIME. The problem is that they are in denial about it. When you have low self esteem, you do not want to face what's wrong with your game. You just dance around it superficially because facing the truth is painful, particularly to those who have fragile egos. Oh sure, they think they are facing their issues on the table but they aren't. Not really.

I can spot a winner before he hits a ball. Why? PERSONALITY. I'm not kidding. Ever notice that people who play really well can do a lot of things really well?
Click to expand...

This explains Earl Strickland. :)
 
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