Some Like it Soft, Very Soft

Tom
No apology required. My point was that many of the early testers really liked the Oinkers I was objecting to the characterization that they were inferior by a poster that failed to include the simple little data point that he had indeed tested them.
So in his humble opinion they are not as good.
So I sort of owe him an apology but I don't like those on the internet who hide behind a screen name and write things like "I heard those were not good" or "That product is cheaper so it must not be as good as this one.". They are propagating hearsay not truth.
You are one of the good guys on here that has developed a better product and taken good care of those of us that have tried your product out.
Thanks!
Gary
 
GBCues said:
I don't understand guys here making value judgments on people's products when they haven't tried them personally
Click to expand...
And what made you assume I have not :confused:
I was objecting to the characterization that they were inferior by a poster that failed to include the simple little data point that he had indeed tested them
Click to expand...
one doesn't have to report anything another person might think of. Instead, you could have asked before going out loud, I think.

I don't want to bust the dust at all but at the same time I have a feeling I need to make things clear. I understand your point but man you are overrecating "just a bit" (actually, way too much). Gary, I log in to AZB not very often, maybe once a week or two, but you seem to be even less frequent user than myself. Otherwise you would have seen me using Tom's sale offers and would have read my experience with his tips too.

Well, had you known all that beofre you would have probably not get that annoyed, so I have no hard feelings about your posts. Now back to the matter. Because I really wish to know the answer.

Since Tom some time ago introduced Oinkers as "tips made of leather which is not good enough to be an UltraSkin" and having tested them said to his feeling they produce less English than UltraSkins - tell me please how would YOU rate Oinkers compared to UltraSkins?
Imagine you describe both tips to your customer who walked from the street. Are they equal? Then why UltraSkin is more expensive? Do they play the same? Then which one would you recommend to the customer?
Keep in mind I never (and actually never ever on AZB or anywhere else) in this post said Oinkers are bad, or whatever. But from two good products one could be better than the other, is anything wrong about that? From my experience UltraSkin tips offer more playability to the player. Oinkers are cheap but still good enough. Though I doubt I will ever offer them to a world pro player, most probably a banger who;s hard on a buck.

I even asked Tom for his opinion how I could position Oinkers because for the time being I offer and sell far more UltraSkin tips than Oinkers. I have some ideas but would be grateful for other views. Like I already said, so far I can't put them on the same level as "the very top tips available on the market".

And again, I don't know why Tom was apologizing for his English, maybe it was not him using the word "inferior" first but it was me. To me "inferior" equals "worse", in comparison of two products on of which is better. I might be mistaken about that, time to check the dictionary then. Please take a note that English is not my native language and be more forgiving, for Lord's sake.

edit: I apologize to everyone for making this thread a bit off-topic, the discussion is supposed to be about new VS tip, and Oinker stuff should go in an Oinkers thread. Maybe the mods could help and transfer some off-topic posts there or to a new thread.
 
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Actualy this has been a good thread and learning experiance for me. Hopefully I can answer some great questions.

The natural color after treatment of the UltraSkins is Black. The reason Oinkers don't cost as much is the treatment is a big expencive process.

IMO do Oinkers grip (?for lack of a better word) the Cue Ball like UltraSkins? NO. Do all players want that grip? All is vast so I believe the answer to be no.

I have yet to have a serious complaint on the Oinkers. My belief in why is simple, I tell people straight up its not the UltraSkin. I also in my FaQ on my Web Site I advise people to use chalk after every shot.

I however have never gotten a WOW on Oinkers. The tips were sent as promised today. Hopefully someone or two will give a good interperatation, my fault, never pushed for it, should have.

I just want to thank everyone who posted or has read for being involved in the Pool Industry. We gotta take our energy and get the game back to its wonder years.

Thanks

Vahmurka said:
And what made you assume I have not :confused:
one doesn't have to report anything another person might think of. Instead, you could have asked before going out loud, I think.

I don't want to bust the dust at all but at the same time I have a feeling I need to make things clear. I understand your point but man you are overrecating "just a bit" (actually, way too much). Gary, I log in to AZB not very often, maybe once a week or two, but you seem to be even less frequent user than myself. Otherwise you would have seen me using Tom's sale offers and would have read my experience with his tips too.

Well, had you known all that beofre you would have probably not get that annoyed, so I have no hard feelings about your posts. Now back to the matter. Because I really wish to know the answer.

Since Tom some time ago introduced Oinkers as "tips made of leather which is not good enough to be an UltraSkin" and having tested them said to his feeling they produce less English than UltraSkins - tell me please how would YOU rate Oinkers compared to UltraSkins?
Imagine you describe both tips to your customer who walked from the street. Are they equal? Then why UltraSkin is more expensive? Do they play the same? Then which one would you recommend to the customer?
Keep in mind I never (and actually never ever on AZB or anywhere else) in this post said Oinkers are bad, or whatever. But from two good products one could be better than the other, is anything wrong about that? From my experience UltraSkin tips offer more playability to the player. Oinkers are cheap but still good enough. Though I doubt I will ever offer them to a world pro player, most probably a banger who;s hard on a buck.

I even asked Tom for his opinion how I could position Oinkers because for the time being I offer and sell far more UltraSkin tips than Oinkers. I have some ideas but would be grateful for other views. Like I already said, so far I can't put them on the same level as "the very top tips available on the market".

And again, I don't know why Tom was apologizing for his English, maybe it was not him using the word "inferior" first but it was me. To me "inferior" equals "worse", in comparison of two products on of which is better. I might be mistaken about that, time to check the dictionary then. Please take a note that English is not my native language and be more forgiving, for Lord's sake.

edit: I apologize to everyone for making this thread a bit off-topic, the discussion is supposed to be about new VS tip, and Oinker stuff should go in an Oinkers thread. Maybe the mods could help and transfer some off-topic posts there or to a new thread.
Click to expand...
 
Also got mine over the weekend. 9-ball tourny on Thursday night, will be installing the VS before then. Thanks again Tom for ALL you do !!!
 
I got mine last week and played league with a VS this past weekend.
Installation was as usual - great! Leather peels right off when shaping with a razor blade, machines nice and smooth on the sides with the lathe.
I didn't feel a whole lot of difference from a medium, but I'm not a great player either. But there is definitely more spin achievable. No mushrooming observed so far.
Another great tip from Tom!
Thanks!
:thumbup:
Gary
 
I have got some VS tips as well. Put on on my z2 and shot about 2 weeks with it every day for 3-4 hours. The tip did show mushroom after about 1.5 weeks but that was expected in my opinion because it's a very soft. Trimmed it again , burnished again and no more mushroom.i believe it's a break in period. The tip
performed very, very , very well. Tons of spin good chalk retention. If you like soft this tip is good.
Tip installs good as well.

Great job Tom.

Now where are those j/b tips that I know you have been working on????
 
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