Somebody HELP me!!!

Mark (8 ball Rat) can make any shot on the table, and banks pretty well. He draws and follows the ball well. He just needs to work on the finesse shots (touch shots) and improve his pattern play. He sometimes makes things harder on himself than they have to be. That will come with just playing. Mark was literally playing at about 55% of his game that night, and I know just how frustrating that can be. Makes you want to start a cue bonfire.

Good instruction can't hurt, but I also recommend watching the Accu-stats matches religiously. I think you can learn so much (this is how I learned really) by studying the good players. Their stance, bridge, grip, stroke, pattern play, etc...copy what you like - and eventually it will click as to the "why" they do it like that (that is when things really get fun). Just my .02 cents.

On another note - Purdman, are you really upset with Myron - or were you joking around (I suspect joking around, although it seemed a bit serious)? I really don't know if you can beat Myron for the cash (....just throwing a little fuel on the fire to see some action..hahaha). If you're seriously upset then disregard my kidding around. I'm having a hard time reading the tone of your post. I would like to see you and Myron match up - that would be a good match. Now, lets play nice.
 
Matt_24 said:
Mark (8 ball Rat) can make any shot on the table, and banks pretty well. He draws and follows the ball well. He just needs to work on the finesse shots (touch shots) and improve his pattern play. He sometimes makes things harder on himself than they have to be. That will come with just playing. Mark was literally playing at about 55% of his game that night, and I know just how frustrating that can be. Makes you want to start a cue bonfire.

Good instruction can't hurt, but I also recommend watching the Accu-stats matches religiously. I think you can learn so much (this is how I learned really) by studying the good players. Their stance, bridge, grip, stroke, pattern play, etc...copy what you like - and eventually it will click as to the "why" they do it like that (that is when things really get fun). Just my .02 cents.

On another note - Purdman, are you really upset with Myron - or were you joking around (I suspect joking around, although it seemed a bit serious)? I really don't know if you can beat Myron for the cash (....just throwing a little fuel on the fire to see some action..hahaha). If you're seriously upset then disregard my kidding around. I'm having a hard time reading the tone of your post. I would like to see you and Myron match up - that would be a good match. Now, lets play nice.
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55% ????? I would have said 60-65%. Thanks for the added credit!!!! :) :)

Thanks for the nice words, Matt. Truth be told, bro....I strive to play at your level. If I can reach that degree of comfort, accuracy, and position play, I could die a happy man!! :)

Now....work on the better half (I find begging, shamelessly, works pretty well), and get your A$$ up to VF!!
 
One note on the SPFF theory.

There are some harder finesse shots that I will not pause on in the backswing, as I find it can mess up the amount of speed or touch I want to put on the cue ball. On those I will take practice strokes with the same amount of pressure I want to put on the cue ball and then just let myself execute when it feels right. Jimmy Reid taught me that at his house...and he happens to do that on every shot. He will just continuously stroke until it feels right and then just shoot....and of course we all know how good that champion plays. Of course, I only have to use that technique on literally probably 20% of the shots. On the majority though, I do pause on the backswing - but I don't really think about it. The only time I "think" about not pausing is when I have a touch shot...but when I'm playing good I won't even have to think about it. Just my personal thoughts on that technique while eveyone is sharing advice and such.
 
8-ball Rat said:
55% ????? I would have said 60-65%. Thanks for the added credit!!!! :) :)

Thanks for the nice words, Matt. Truth be told, bro....I strive to play at your level. If I can reach that degree of comfort, accuracy, and position play, I could die a happy man!! :)

Now....work on the better half (I find begging, shamelessly, works pretty well), and get your A$$ up to VF!!
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I'm going to miss hanging with you at VF, believe me. That will be a blast!

I appreciate your confidence in my game, but you're more of a natural than I am. I've been playing all of my life (off and on) just to get to where I'm at. I do have my good moments, but can't play enough to maintain anything. You've been playing just 4 or 5 years and already playing at a level that took me much longer to reach. I know this is going to be controversial, but you're a natural athlete with good hand-eye coordination. You don't need lessons. You simply need to study some accu-stats matches/focus on better players techniques, etc, and focus on learning the easiest patterns, because even though you're stance can be "different" it works for you - so I wouldn't change it. Everyone plays differently for a reason...and when you're on, you're shot making and movement of the cue ball is good. Just learn the patterns (essentially the angles/lines not to cross to make executing the shots and getting on the next ball easier). Your break is as powerful as anyones...seriously. I'd kill for that break, although mine has improved quite a bit. (I actually turned down a Sledgehammer 'cause I'm breaking so good with just my cue). I say if you keep up consistent play for a solid 2 years, with focus, dedicated practice, and studying the better players....you've got the talent to get up there in ability real fast (better than me, easily).
 
Matt_24 said:
I'm going to miss hanging with you at VF, believe me. That will be a blast!

I appreciate your confidence in my game, but you're more of a natural than I am. I've been playing all of my life (off and on) just to get to where I'm at. I do have my good moments, but can't play enough to maintain anything. You've been playing just 4 or 5 years and already playing at a level that took me much longer to reach. I know this is going to be controversial, but you're a natural athlete with good hand-eye coordination. You don't need lessons. You simply need to study some accu-stats matches/focus on better players techniques, etc, and focus on learning the easiest patterns, because even though you're stance can be "different" it works for you - so I wouldn't change it. Everyone plays differently for a reason...and when you're on, you're shot making and movement of the cue ball is good. Just learn the patterns (essentially the angles/lines not to cross to make executing the shots and getting on the next ball easier). Your break is as powerful as anyones...seriously. I'd kill for that break, although mine has improved quite a bit. (I actually turned down a Sledgehammer 'cause I'm breaking so good with just my cue). I say if you keep up consistent play for a solid 2 years, with focus, dedicated practice, and studying the better players....you've got the talent to get up there in ability real fast (better than me, easily).
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Awww....I'm gonna blush and s#!t..... :) :) (and, for the record, it's been only 3 years!! hee hee hee )

YOUR confidence in my game is stronger than my own, sir (part of my problem, it seems)....but like I mentioned before, it most definitely helps to have an "outside" opinion (since I can't see myself play). Having watched you run several racks last weekend, I most definitely take your opinion seriously.

Since VF is gonna be 4 full days of pool debauchery, I'm hoping to get enough table time in to really focus on some strong fundmentals (like stance, even stroke, and keeping my friggin' head down during and just after the shot).

Maybe when I get back, we'll run some more races to seven???? I might even win one or two games! ;)
 
alpine9430 said:
Mark

The game of pool is a beautiful game to watch and the person who masters the stroke and maintains a consistent stroke is generally the one that will continue to improve. I know you are looking to improve and I too am looking for an answer but there is no quick answer to this.

First thing I would recommend is to have your stroke evaluated by someone who really knows how to evaluate effectively for each person who is out there. From what I have gathered from reading on this forum, Scott Lee may be the best out there who travels through most areas helping people like you and I. Know for a fact that Scott will be up at VF and may have some time available to get a session in with you and get you straightened out. But make the appointment after your matches so as to hopefully go in with an open mind without thinking about the next match.

In the meantime, I am neither an instructor nor claim to be an expert in the game but here my observations based upon playing with you for about 20 hours already.

1) Bridge Length
What I understand is that the length for the bridge should be equal or slightly less than the distance of the upper part of your shooting arm. The measurement is from the ball socket in the shoulder to the elbow joint.
What I observed is that on most shots your bridge length is about 12-14 inches and may be too long for finesse shots. Let Scott Lee evaluate for you.

2) Stance
The stance should be balanced and with generally equal weight distribution on both legs.
I see that you put most of your weight on your rear leg. This may not be a problem but Scott Lee is better to evaluate this.

3) Grip
I believe you and I have the same problem. Inconsistent grip!
When we are shooting well, the grip is loose and the wrist is not locked. On the shots I have seen you miss, your first two fingers were white knuckled and the cue actually rotated in bridge while you were increasing the grip on the cue. Generally what I saw when you gripped harder, the cue rolled in the bridge in a Clockwise direction and your contact point between the cue and the cue ball to the left of your aim point.

4) SPFF (Set-Pause-Finish-Freeze)
In this area, you commented that Hunter saw that you were getting up before the shot was completed.
When Matt completes his stroke, he is always going straight though his contact point. His cue generally does not waiver off his aim point.
What I have observed, is that you either get up before you finish or you are pulling up the bridge hand before you finish. And when you move your bridge hand you are generally pulling it across the table prior to pulling the bridge hand up. If you have not completed the stoke, you may be aiming off the contact area of the cue ball. Only a video recording will show what is going on.​

I would have to say that a class with Scott Lee or Randy G would be money well spent. Take a look at Cue Techs school and I believe they will be coming through Frederick MD in June which may be closest they come to our area.

Hope that you find out what will improve your stroke because it is the fundamentals that will get you over the hump.
Myron
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Thanks, Myron.

Once again, another AZB'er with some sound advice, formed from actually seeing me shoot (or attempt to, at least). There isn't one thing you mentioned that I haven't been told by somebody else...or that you and I haven't spoken about previous to this thread.

Knowing that I've been making some errors in technique should have already front-loaded me with things to work on....but when I get to playing, it's amazing how quickly I'll put those important aspects on the back burner......just because I want to PLAY.

I believe you said it best a couple months back.......taking some time out of my "playing" to work on some no-kidding drills can only amount to some form of improvement.

Thanks for taking the time to explain to me, AGAIN, some of my problem areas. Perhaps seeing it in black and white will cause me to actually focus more on the framework, and less on the window dressing (although, I will ALWAYS love drawing that cueball!!! :) :) )

Looking forward to see ya again at VF this week, sir. Drop me a line when you get into town, okay?

Mark
 
Mr. Rat,

You have received excellent advice from members of this forum, so I just have one thing to ad that may help or may be BS:

Go on a pool date with someone you would like to impress but can't play pool very well, or have a similar person watch you while practicing or while in a friendly game (someone you would like to impress and is no threat to your game), I think you will find you become very fluid and comfortable over the table. How natural it feels, how easy it becomes making a ball & getting shape. You are now Efren! You're following through, keeping your head down, all the things discussed here, but no stress. Just relaxed concentration.

This is what you should video tape. Then have a friend video you during a stressful time where you are not in the zone & compare the two. At the very least, you should remember how you felt during this time.

The message is to relax and play your game, not the opponent or the score. Just concentrate on that one shot at that moment. Focus on one thing, the most important thing for this turn (making the ball, position, safety speed, etc.) & be committed to your decision. If not or you are second guessing yourself, stand up & reset. Once you've decided on a course of action (all your thinking should be done standing up). Hard to do but this will help you become more consistant. If there are outside factors in your life that may distract you from playing your best, don't sweat it, they will pass. You don't have to retool your game because of your temporary emotional state.

Ok, I wrote more than I intended (just wanted to suggest playing on a date) but since I did, I left it in. What the heck.

I would definately take "purdman" up on his offer. It was very generous of him and I'm sure it will help.

Dave
 
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8-ball Rat said:
Thanks, Myron.

Once again, another AZB'er with some sound advice, formed from actually seeing me shoot (or attempt to, at least). There isn't one thing you mentioned that I haven't been told by somebody else...or that you and I haven't spoken about previous to this thread.

Knowing that I've been making some errors in technique should have already front-loaded me with things to work on....but when I get to playing, it's amazing how quickly I'll put those important aspects on the back burner......just because I want to PLAY.

I believe you said it best a couple months back.......taking some time out of my "playing" to work on some no-kidding drills can only amount to some form of improvement.

Thanks for taking the time to explain to me, AGAIN, some of my problem areas. Perhaps seeing it in black and white will cause me to actually focus more on the framework, and less on the window dressing (although, I will ALWAYS love drawing that cueball!!! :) :) )

Looking forward to see ya again at VF this week, sir. Drop me a line when you get into town, okay?

Mark
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Mark

First, had I taken the time to read the entire thread rather than read your initial request for help, I would have included Don Purdy to chase after for some of his table time. But I jumped out there after reading only your post to provide my observations much like you do when you see a cue of interest... :D Fast out the gate!

So take Don up on his offer and watch your game elevate to a new level.
Myron
 
alpine9430 said:
Mark

First, had I taken the time to read the entire thread rather than read your initial request for help, I would have included Don Purdy to chase after for some of his table time. But I jumped out there after reading only your post to provide my observations much like you do when you see a cue of interest... :D Fast out the gate!

So take Don up on his offer and watch your game elevate to a new level.
Myron
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Fast out of the gate on a cue of interest????? MOI????? Surely, you jest!! :) :)

I will be talking with Don, for sure.....but all the other advice/tips/suggestions are very much welcome. Those that have actually seen me play (yourself included, of course) have all mentioned the same basic concepts....and I appreciate your inputs, sir.
 
Purdman said:
The only stupid question is the one that you don't ask. It stands for Set, Pause, Finish and Freeze.
Purd
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Thank you for that, and that is a very true statement.:)
 
Yo Mark,

Getting Don to help out is the best thing you can do. An educated third party can often see what we just can't...

Bad as I hate to say this...find one playing cue and stick with it! Now you and I know each other a little too well to think this is a possibility, but if you can at least find your "go to" stick (like my Nova), then you have a solid base that you can fall back on.

I'm much better at shooting clay pigeons than pool. I also wheeled and dealt guns, just like I'm doing with cues. I stayed at a "B" level for the longest time, and I believe that changing guns every week played a major part in my mediocrity. I finally got a gun I felt comfortable with and haven't changed since (even though I still keep buying guns and own several that are theoretically "better guns"). Now, I'm shooting winning AA class scores...

Last, but not least, you might be at a level where you are over analyzing things and just not trusting what you know. I took a fifteen year layoff from pool and when I came back, lots of things had changed (nine ball instead of straight pool, ball in hand rules, etc.). I thought it would be a great thing to take lessons. While I learned lots of new stuff, it just seemed that everything I did was work, and just didn't feel right. I finally had a guy at a tourney tell me that when I warmed up, it sure looked I knew what I was doing, but when I got in a tourney, I slowed way down and over analyzed everything. That one little tip made me relax and "let things happen" naturally. I seem to finish games much stronger now, and I feel like I'm enjoying the game again...

Hang in there, pal!

Steve
 
Hunter said:
Yo Mark,

Getting Don to help out is the best thing you can do. An educated third party can often see what we just can't...

Bad as I hate to say this...find one playing cue and stick with it! Now you and I know each other a little too well to think this is a possibility, but if you can at least find your "go to" stick (like my Nova), then you have a solid base that you can fall back on.

I'm much better at shooting clay pigeons than pool. I also wheeled and dealt guns, just like I'm doing with cues. I stayed at a "B" level for the longest time, and I believe that changing guns every week played a major part in my mediocrity. I finally got a gun I felt comfortable with and haven't changed since (even though I still keep buying guns and own several that are theoretically "better guns"). Now, I'm shooting winning AA class scores...

Last, but not least, you might be at a level where you are over analyzing things and just not trusting what you know. I took a fifteen year layoff from pool and when I came back, lots of things had changed (nine ball instead of straight pool, ball in hand rules, etc.). I thought it would be a great thing to take lessons. While I learned lots of new stuff, it just seemed that everything I did was work, and just didn't feel right. I finally had a guy at a tourney tell me that when I warmed up, it sure looked I knew what I was doing, but when I got in a tourney, I slowed way down and over analyzed everything. That one little tip made me relax and "let things happen" naturally. I seem to finish games much stronger now, and I feel like I'm enjoying the game again...

Hang in there, pal!

Steve
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Steve, thank you for your generous support. May I make a slight suggestion, get yourself a Purdey shotgun pair. Guarenteed to improve your shooting.;) Yep, that's my familey over in England. My ascestors came over on da boat and removed the "E".
Peace Bro, Purdman
 
What Don said is true...all of us SPF instructors teach essentially the same material the same way. I'm sure he'll do a great job helping Mark, and his offer was genuine and generous. One of the things about instruction, imo, is to take lessons from as many different instructors as you are able. That way you can pick and choose what works best for you, from everything you are exposed to. Oftentimes an idea or concept, that fails to "take root", when described by one person, is all of a sudden clearly understood when explained by someone else...same information, just a little different way of saying it.
The truth is I can only get to people once or twice a year, and when there is someone competent and locally available, I would certainly take advantage of that.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Purdman said:
Steve, thank you for your generous support. May I make a slight suggestion, get yourself a Purdey shotgun pair. Guarenteed to improve your shooting.;) Yep, that's my familey over in England. My ascestors came over on da boat and removed the "E".
Peace Bro, Purdman
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Hey Don,

What kind of family discount do you get at Purdey's? Why am I asking that, it really doesn't make any difference if it's $88,000 or $120,000, as I can't afford either! :D I actually had a chance to drool over a nice one last month. The owner told me if I drooled on the gun, it would cost me $7,000...

Take care, pal!

Steve
 
I used to have that problem back when I was using an "aiming system" if you have one of those then that is part of it. forget all aiming systems and go by feel and memory and using your brain's computer and you will play more consistent.

Also I play way better when I get good sleep. Playing tired is horrible.
 
Hunter said:
Hey Don,

What kind of family discount do you get at Purdey's? Why am I asking that, it really doesn't make any difference if it's $88,000 or $120,000, as I can't afford either! :D I actually had a chance to drool over a nice one last month. The owner told me if I drooled on the gun, it would cost me $7,000...

Take care, pal!

Steve
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The only ones I have ever seen belonged to my fathers friend Auther Goffrey. My dad took me for a visit on to his farm when I was a kid. Now I live about 3 miles from there and 1 mile from the Leesburg Airport he started to park his planes. :D
Purdman:D
PS: You will at least have to pay the guys flight over here to custom fit it for ya!:D Then you only have to wait longer than it takes to get a Gina Cue from Ernie to have it made! ;)
 
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