Something I found out about most Phenolic used for cues...

TheBook said:
The OP way out of his league. He contradicts himself with his stories and thinks a piece of cactus is wood (he has another post showing a dried piece of cactus that he thinks is an exotic wood).


Best to let this thread die.
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I know I said i wouldnt post here but I have to say something about this comment......

I didn't know what it was it was sold to me as wood....
that's why I said a weird piece of wood ....
if I knew it was cactus I would have said cactus....
I never said it was exotic wood either...

best you keep your facts in line.

heres what I said direct from the thread...

post 1
I like alot.
will probably play with it and see what I can come up with.
what do you all think?

post 2
lol.... i think so to but I like it.

post 3
you think it might look good as a cue? I think it has potential. kinda soft and brittle though. the potentials there though....well the way I look at it.

post 4
thanks for the concern. I really appereciate it. I will post a new thread thanking everyone soon and personally pming everyone that was concerned and or looked out for me.

post 5
looks like olive wood? is it?

post6
nope..... not sure yet but got ideas.
I do want to do something really different.

post 7
haha.... thats funny...

post 8
can I get those from you? I would need pictures too.

and heres the link to the whole thing..
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=205736

So from now on before you say that someone is stupid in a indirect way and through suggestion....I'd state the facts first then quote me on something I actually claimed.
I think someone can not read or understand English and I know for the time being, I know what I said, and the kicker is I'm not even full blooded American and English is my second language and I seem to better more proficient in deciphering the language than you are.

where did I post the word exotic?

READ AGAIN

then maybe be a man and apologize for saying. I said it was "exotic"
 
can the world be round?

Alright,
I try to ignore everyone who wants to say things to me about this thread or what I have said.

I am trying to help but of course those who see the world one way will never be open to new ideas even if the new ideas might be right.
I mean a statement that a discernible change of hit doesn't matter and shouldn't matter, to me is fine cause this would be something that could be debatable. to me those little things like that, you know the details, matter to me.

such as if I use rolled and molded and non heat treated vs sheet rod that is heat treated to 250 degrees instead of 300 degrees.
i mean it's just 50 degrees in difference does it matter?... in making phenolic and what your using it for, it does.
do you know what happens to the phenolic in the end product? why it was heat tread to a certain degree? and why it was heat treaded to begin with? are these terms general knowledge to the cuemaking world and or even the people who buy from us?

there is a minut change but it matters.

cause if I take everything that has a minute change into consideration then it will add up to something bigger. like saving pennies. you'll eventually have a dollar.

I know Im young. compared to most everyone here that makes cue, and I have been learning and feeding my self knowledge with everything that concerns cue making and finding my own results. But I never enforced my ides onto anyone I state my opinion and what facts I found yet it can never be someone just simply having a reasonable debate without belittling the opposition. I have come to accept this now.

I know though, in my heart, when I get to most peoples age who makes cues, 40-60, watch out I'll be right behind you or would have exceeded you by the time I reach your age. I am 28 and have been making cues when I was 16 and selling at 18. I got another 10-15 years to get to your age and thats a long time to improve myself.

I respect alot of cue maker here because I know for the most part I started with nothing and no money and I make all my equipment.
I never bought anything that was fully assembled. I got pics of all the machines and jigs I made. and truly, I doubt there are many who can say that.

but for everyone else reading this ....
from now on.......to prevent my blood from boiling,
I WILL try and never start a thread about subjects that deal with construction.
it's not healthy for me.
All my knowledge of how I make wood, to machines ,to the science of wood, to construction, and etc..... will be kept to me and me alone.

The funny thing is, who ever said that the way we are making anything today could never be improved on tomorrow.
I think for more than 50 or more years of making cues one way is today
when will tomorrow come?
by the looks of it and by the way everyone reacts to new ideas , maybe another 50 years? maybe more?

kinda like when I was told I couldn't reinvent the wheel when it came to cue making, but I did make a new construction.

what will it take for people to understand that the evolution of cue making is coming and any information that is being discovered should not be trashed right away. give it a chance.
Like I said I want to do an experiment to see if my theories are correct and I will make sure everyone will have access to it.

What are all the bashers gonna do? are they going to invest money into scientific research to prove me wrong. For the most part I think not. I think that's all it will ever come to is "their" word. People will always say I am wrong. Big words though got data to back up what your saying?

If you do prove me wrong I will freely admit that my theories are wrong. But guess what, I'll still get back up and make more theories and I will improve on myself and what I learn. Cause when you prove me wrong , I LEARN. and once I learn I will evolve, and move on and experiment more.

I am willing to be wrong and fail. just make sure it's through facts and not words.

I am willing to fall down on my face. I want to fall from time to time.
But, I will always get right back up.

please prove me wrong so I know what IS wrong so that I can be right with the right facts and the right instruction.

Marshall Piercy
 
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Looks like stainless steel joints are the way to go. Of course there are grades of that to. :eek:
 
Marshall, I hope you never lose your spirit. Your exuberance and excitement about all things relating to making pool equipment is refreshing.

Someone quite wise once said something to the effect of not letting the naysayers get you down. I believe by now you've learned that on a mostly-anonymous internet forum, you will have plenty of folks slinging mud at you. Please don't let that stop you from posting here. I'm sure there are many others besides myself you enjoy seeing photo's of your work, and hearing you talk about something new you've discovered. Even if it is only new to you, it doesn't matter. You are engaged in your art, and it is a joy to read.

I expect to see great things from you as the future unfolds. Please continue to share that journey with us.

{Gak, I sound awfully Hallmark-card-ish, don't I? :o I do mean it, but boy that was.... I don't know what that was!)

I think some folks might choose their words a little more carefully, so as not to discourage someone too much. Correcting someone that has mis-information is one thing, but disparaging them is a whole other issue. Then again, I think better of people than perhaps they deserve sometimes, too. People disappoint me on a regular basis.
 
Nova Cues and phenolic insert

I corresponded with Nubs Wagner a while back (Im a big Nova fan). I asked him why his cues seemed to hit so much more solid and different than my other cues (I have an extensive collection of what most cue collectors would consider the cream of the crop). He stated it was the phenolic insert he used on his shafts. Im not sure I buy into the "phenolic not having much of an effect on the cue". Anyhow - not looking to start a flame war. Just my 2 cents.
 
McChen said:
ISO is a standards organization, it is not a standard by itself. So when you say ISO 95%, that has no meaning. There may be an ISO standard for phenolic grades, I have no idea whether there is or not. What we need to find is the ISO specification number. It generally is stated like ISO (standard number) : (year published). There is a huge catalogue of ISO specs BTW, not easy to find random things by browsing it.
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This is the reality of ISO standards, thanks for posting.

Note carefully the comment about needing the "ISO specification number". This is what would be needed to order specific grades as based on an ISO standard. Walking into a plastics outfit and asking for "ISO 95% Phenolic rod" will likely just get you a sideways look. With the proper specification number you should get what you expect. Marshall, ask your buddy if he knows the ISO spec number.

Dave
 
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BENFICA said:
I actually participated in a couple of ISO certifications and basically all they care about is policy and procedures and manufacturing processes. Output quality is irrelevant.
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My guess is that you are refering to ISO manufacturing facility standards, such as ISO 9000:2001, ISO 9000:2002, etc. You are right, these are process and procedure documentation certifications and have nothing to do with the properties of materials.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9000

For a quick overview of the depth and breadth of ISO standards have a look at this :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_International_Organization_for_Standardization_standards

Dave
 
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skip said:
Looks like stainless steel joints are the way to go. Of course there are grades of that to. :eek:
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I kind of like the look of SS for it's traditional look. However, I don't care for the 1 ounce + slug of steel stuck in the center of the cue. You can make a cue with a SS, nickel silver, brass, aluminum what ever sleeve type joint maybe 50 to 100 thousandths thick either flat faced or piloted and get the best of both worlds.
 
first the question would be...

what type of le phenolic are we talking about?
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The most commonly used phenolic used on cues.
Linen based roled tubes.

Or to make it simpler, all things being equal, what is the difference between ISO 75 and ISO 90?
 
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Marshall Piercy

I sent your a pm. I can see your too ingrossed - but I know you want to be perfectly understood, and I thank you for going the extra mile. now let me (help you out. ) knowledge is power. mark i'm going to be having Phenloic Nightmares. I want a cue where I tap the butt and the phenolics glow for 20 minutes- kind of like my coca cola cue that lights up when you tap the bumper. (really) thanks for your time in advance!!
 
Piercyexclusive said:
manufacturers certification is the difference
and look ...heres the thing
here where I live the machinists here talk like that. this is the info I am getting
and even the instructors who teach the classification and the how to machine these phenolics also talk like that...
iso this iso that iso grading this iso grading that.
even at the polymer science building they talk like that...
so I guess there's a something to it I just haven't found out yet.
and I never claimed i knew everything about phenolics yet.
I am just trying to rely and channel what I have been hearing.
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Marshall, it's a simple question.
the phenolic I had bought were low grade phenolic.
the iso was about 75-85 percent.
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When you say ISO 75 %, what does that mean?
 
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