Yes I have, they are excellent. But when you say "running" english are you referring to top inside or top outside (depending on the shot)? Or are you using zero top?
Sometimes even the instructors get it wrong
- Thread starter hang-the-9
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Yes I have, they are excellent. But when you say "running" english are you referring to top inside or top outside (depending on the shot)? Or are you using zero top?
I usually specify in the video titles, narrations, or english-diagram illustrations. If it is not specified (e.g., in some of the HSV clips), the outside is usually assisted by draw, and inside is usually assisted by follow. However, the angle the CB first comes off the cushion (before the draw or follow has had time to act) depends only on the sidespin.
Regards,
Dave
After looking again I do see where you label it "stun" with "running english". So I guess that means straight side spin with zero follow.
I'm not disagreeing with anything you're showing about the rail shots. It's all precise and pretty straight-forward instruction. In this clip, http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-141.htm, the hit is so close that the CB reaction is very near what it would be for a ball-first hit, because the CB moves the OB before the rail has any significant influence on the CB. Just like a ball-first rail shot, the OB moves out of way and then the CB rebounds from the cushion. So it can really be considered a ball-first rail shot.
My point is that there seems to be only two types of rail shots that a player needs to think about when it comes to moving the CB around for position on the next shot, but for years it's been treated like a complicated mystery, clouded up with inside spin or hitting ball and rail at the same time, etc.... The two possible rail shots are:
Shot1: Rail first....the CB sinks/hits into the cushion, then rebounds off/out of the cushion and glances off the OB. It doesn't matter how much cushion the CB hits first, as long as the OB is hit as the CB rebounds from the cushion and not before. Too much cushion of course is a missed shot.
Shot 2: Ball first....the CB moves the OB out of the way and then sinks/hits into the cushion and rebounds clear of hitting the OB. This can be a ball-first rail shot or a shot where it looks like the ball and rail are struck at the same time or even the rail getting brushed before the OB gets hit. Like in the "HVSA-141" slow motion clip above, the CB moves the OB before sinking into the cushion, and then it rebounds free of striking the OB, reacting like a ball-first rail shot.
With shot 1, rail first, the only way to get the CB to roll down table following the rail shot is to use either force follow or top running english. Stun or straight side spin will always result in the CB rebounding from the cushion and caroming off the OB, as demonstrated in your slow motion rail shot clips.
For shot 2, ball first, whether the OB is struck too full or at the same time as the cushion (depending on shot angle), straight side spin (running/inside) will send the CB on down the table with ease. The thicker you hit the ball-first rail shot, the sharper down table the CB will go with inside spin, especially when adding top also. But naturally too thick is a miss. The closer you get to hitting rail first, the more the CB glances along the OB tangent line, which means it must be forced with top to go down table if that's where you need it....straight inside won't work.
I've seen some instructors get this wrong, or at the very least they don't explain it well enough for players to understand exactly how the CB reacts on rail shots.
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Agreed. For a player, knowing the effects of "ball first" and "rail first" is enough. I think an instructor should also know and understand the subtleties and effects of cushion compression and OB-hit timing.
Regards,
Dave
Good point. 34 years of playing pool and not until just a few years ago did I ever think about exactly why the cb does what it does on certain rail shots. Thanks for all the info.