SouthWest Knock-offs

classiccues said:
Are you saying that he thought of the 6 point 3 hi and 3 low point layout? Or the segmented backend that splits the material about 3/4 of the length?

It's very easy to look at this cue and see the South West design "element". Which is what the thread is about.

I have also seen a 6 point veneered Manzino with the same traits.

JV
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I never said he thought of it....you are completely missing my point.

This thread is about "knock offs", which is the title. An item that is almost identical to the original, yet selling for much less due to inferior workmanship USUALLY. The Chinese, or whatever it is probably has stickers. The Lee Malakof cue is such a blatant "knock off"...well.

McWorter was voted Cuemaker of the year by his peers in 2009, peers that included Southwest Cues.

If you are going to go down this road then we should start a thread about Titleist "knock offs" and start with Bushka.

You are only correct that the point design is similar. EVERYTHING else is different.

Knockoffs are the 5 dollar Oakleys you see in Tijuana. Let us just not get confused.
 
pescadoman said:
I never said he thought of it....you are completely missing my point.

This thread is about "knock offs", which is the title. An item that is almost identical to the original, yet selling for much less due to inferior workmanship USUALLY. The Chinese, or whatever it is probably has stickers. The Lee Malakof cue is such a blatant "knock off"...well.

McWorter was voted Cuemaker of the year by his peers in 2009, peers that included Southwest Cues.

If you are going to go down this road then we should start a thread about Titleist "knock offs" and start with Bushka.

You are only correct that the point design is similar. EVERYTHING else is different.

Knockoffs are the 5 dollar Oakleys you see in Tijuana. Let us just not get confused.
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Most of the cue's shown in the thread are not true knock off's. They have similar design elements to South West. Because he was voted cuemaker of the year has no bearing on whether he made cues that have a South West look to them, as the cue in the picture does. Let's not get uppity because he is your pal, the fact is this cue has as much of the SW look as any cue shown here.

The only difference is the lower thin rings, and joint design, which is a guess since it's not shown.

JV
 
classiccues said:
The only difference is the lower thin rings, and joint design, which is a guess since it's not shown.

JV
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Since you are guessing, I must assume you know nothing about his cues or didn't bother to check. As I pointed out, the ONLY thing they have in common are the number of points.


I can tell a McWorter from a SW from a 100 feet away.

It is LUDICROUS to include him in this thread of junk and ripoffs. Bottom feeder? Have a look at his website and see for yourself.

Ernie, Tad, Szamboti, Tim Scruggs, aren't my friends, but if you put him in a list of Titlist "knock offs", I would probably say something about it as well. If you ask them if Jerry makes knock offs I will bet you money they ALL say NO. Care to take that bet? You have their numbers, call for yourself.

I am somewhat disappointed in you though. As a dealer of fine cues, you should appreciate the amount of work a full time maker invests to support his family. I would have also thought you would know more about his cues, even though you don't sell them.
 
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pescadoman said:
Since you are guessing, I must assume you know nothing about his cues or didn't bother to check. As I pointed out, the ONLY thing they have in common are the number of points.


I can tell a McWorter from a SW from a 100 feet away.

It is LUDICROUS to include him in this thread of junk and ripoffs. Bottom feeder? Have a look at his website and see for yourself.

Ernie, Tad, Szamboti, Tim Scruggs, aren't my friends, but if you put him in a list of Titlist "knock offs", I would probably say something about it as well. If you ask them if Jerry makes knock offs I will bet you money they ALL say NO. Care to take that bet? You have their numbers, call for yourself.

I am somewhat disappointed in you though. As a dealer of fine cues, you should appreciate the amount of work a full time maker invests to support his family. I would have also thought you would know more about his cues, even though you don't sell them.
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That cue has not only the points but the separated backend that SW does. Anyone can see that in the pictures.

The thread is for South West knock offs and cues that use their design elements. The McWorter clearly has these. I can't see this particular joint, and neither can you, so I can't comment on the rings. It's probably the double silver but regardless, the cue shows a clear attempt at the SW style of cue.

If you can't separate your friendship with him to see this is clearly a cue that has SW influence, you are BLIND.

No one is saying that's a bad thing, BTW. But it is, what it is. You are also someone that has not chimed in, on the many cue design theft threads, but are picking this one because one of Jerry's SW style cues have shown up. You'll see I have no issue with this being the case, I am just showing that a lot of people have done this style of cue.

No place did I infer he was a bottom feeder, or made junk knock offs. The fact is this particular cue has SW influence, period.

BTW Bushka did not knock off titlists.. he used them as blanks. There is a big difference and is banter for another thread.

JV
 
classiccues said:
That cue has not only the points but the separated backend that SW does. Anyone can see that in the pictures.

The thread is for South West knock offs and cues that use their design elements. The McWorter clearly has these. I can't see this particular joint, and neither can you, so I can't comment on the rings. It's probably the double silver but regardless, the cue shows a clear attempt at the SW style of cue.

If you can't separate your friendship with him to see this is clearly a cue that has SW influence, you are BLIND.

No one is saying that's a bad thing, BTW. But it is, what it is. You are also someone that has not chimed in, on the many cue design theft threads, but are picking this one because one of Jerry's SW style cues have shown up. You'll see I have no issue with this being the case, I am just showing that a lot of people have done this style of cue.

No place did I infer he was a bottom feeder, or made junk knock offs. The fact is this particular cue has SW influence, period.

BTW Bushka did not knock off titlists.. he used them as blanks. There is a big difference and is banter for another thread.

JV
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Maybe you should read an entire thread to see the direction it is heading before you contribute. The term "knock off" is durogatory. Jerry's, and the cues included here have SW influence yes, but not all of them are knock offs. A knock off is a cheap imitation that is basically identical except for inferior workmanship. I don't need to see that cues joint ect, because I have one and know what it looks like.... 3/8-10 stainless with two silver rings, just like all his other cues.

Had this thread been "SW influenced", then I would agree.

I know Bushka used blanks, but by your definition that would be a knock off as well. I mean, if he wasn't smart enough to make his own........Christ he used lag bolts in his cues....what a hack!!!!! Just kidding.

If I haven't made my point now and we still can't agree, then there is no hope I can convince you.....

Oh and I'm not blind, just short.... :(
 
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pescadoman said:
Maybe you should read an entire thread to see the direction it is heading before you contribute. The term "knock off" is durogatory. Jerry's, and the cues included here have SW influence yes, but not all of them are knock offs. A knock off is a cheap imitation that is basically identical except for inferior workmanship. I don't need to see that cues joint ect, because I have one and know what it looks like.... 3/8-10 stainless with two silver rings, just like all his other cues.

Had this thread been "SW influenced", then I would agree.

I know Bushka used blanks, but by your definition that would be a knock off as well. I mean, if he wasn't smart enough to make his own........Christ he used lag bolts in his cues....what a hack!!!!! Just kidding.

If I haven't made my point now and we still can't agree, then there is no hope I can convince you.....

Oh and I'm not blind, just short.... :(
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Dude, you need to reread all the posts, are you telling me you think that Mottey is a "knock off"? No infact it's less a knock off than the McWorter I posted. The thread includes design elements, so yes, the picture belongs there and that's that.

No my definition would not make Bushka's a knock off. But if the thread was about Bushka design elements, then we could put a load of cuemakers in that discussion. However this discussion is about SW knockoffs AND CUES THAT USED DESIGN ELEMENTS FROM SW CUES. See post #4 (design qualities) by the OP.

JV
 
classiccues said:
Dude, you need to reread all the posts, are you telling me you think that Mottey is a "knock off"? No infact it's less a knock off than the McWorter I posted. The thread includes design elements, so yes, the picture belongs there and that's that.

No my definition would not make Bushka's a knock off. But if the thread was about Bushka design elements, then we could put a load of cuemakers in that discussion. However this discussion is about SW knockoffs AND CUES THAT USED DESIGN ELEMENTS FROM SW CUES. See post #4 (design qualities) by the OP.

JV
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I give up...dude, you win. You WIN!!!!

Have to cut up a titlist now...... :)
 
I've never been fortunate enough to play with a Southwest, but I sure do hate to look at them. I just don't think they are pretty. I've seen plenty of 6 point cues that I liked, but none from SW. I absolutely love Tim Scruggs' style.
 
My question on the subject would be... who was building 6 point high/low cues before 1982? I can't imagine SW being the first company to make this style of cue, so who did they "knock-off"?
 
no one made cues that looked like southwest before them
and no one makes them as nice to this day

the cues play fantastic,players voted them the best playing cues at the poll and at the cash register

with a 10 year waiting list and people standing in line to pay $500 to $1500 the day you get one,it seems most people want one
dealers know this is true because they are taking them in trade whereas nothing else sells so fast

never duplicated, but often imitated

I like south west cues,call me if you want to sell one
 
So there was not one 6pt hi/low cue in existence before SW... I find that hard to believe.

I'm not knocking their cues... just asking the question.
 
phoenixrising said:
When I talked to the seller about it he said that often SouthWest ringwork doesn't line up. I don't know since I have never owned a SouthWest and never held one either. So when I got this cue I checked it very carefully and the rings all line up perfectly when the cue is put together. Only the joint protector's rings don't line up perfectly but I can live with that. Everyone who has seen this cue has complimented me on how nice it is.

So count me as a happy owner of a SouthWest style cue.
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If Im not mistaken the rings dont line up with the ring set above it. They alternate. Every other one line up. You would have to be a snapperhead to pay that much for a cue where the rings arent aligned.
 
I have seen several threads on cue knock offs over the few years i have been around this forum.
I personally believe that cue can be termed knock only if it is being sold to decieve customers that they are originals.
for eample 6 point high/low cues have been made i dont know how many years and they will be made till people are playing pool and so on for many other designs.

I personally prefer South West design so much, but imagine a 10 years wait or a 2500+ price tag, lets be honest everyone cannot afford one or can wait for one. So this directs me or anyone else to go to another cuemaker to make a similar design and for a cheaper price tag. not neccasarily that cuemaker wants to do it but thats how i want my cue to look like. Not because it will look like South West and make people believe that i am playing with a South West but because i like that design.
Look at the similarities between Szamboti and Tascarella cues, is that Knocking off? I dont think so.
If cue is not being made to cheat anyone representing it to be something else, it should not rather it cannot be called a knock off.

Just my Humble Opinion.

Lets hear yours.

I posted this in main forum as well, lets take the disscussion over there:thumbup:
 
Monto P2 said:
I have seen several threads on cue knock offs over the few years i have been around this forum.
I personally believe that cue can be termed knock only if it is being sold to decieve customers that they are originals.
for eample 6 point high/low cues have been made i dont know how many years and they will be made till people are playing pool and so on for many other designs.

I personally prefer South West design so much, but imagine a 10 years wait or a 2500+ price tag, lets be honest everyone cannot afford one or can wait for one. So this directs me or anyone else to go to another cuemaker to make a similar design and for a cheaper price tag. not neccasarily that cuemaker wants to do it but thats how i want my cue to look like. Not because it will look like South West and make people believe that i am playing with a South West but because i like that design.
Look at the similarities between Szamboti and Tascarella cues, is that Knocking off? I dont think so.
If cue is not being made to cheat anyone representing it to be something else, it should not rather it cannot be called a knock off.

Just my Humble Opinion.

Lets hear yours.

I posted this in main forum as well, lets take the disscussion over there:thumbup:
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"Tap" "Tap" Monto P2. Your thoughts make perfect sense to me. As long as it's not made to be passed off as a SW, I think it's perfectly fine, JMO.
 
Most people couldn't find their own butt if they used both hands . The pacific rim cues , like J&J are great for the price and are hard to tell the difference at a glance . Some were touted as the real thing . You know who you are !!! SouthWest isn't anything special . People all the cues are made of wood and Laurie doesn't have any magic dust . Their setup is really kind of mickey mouse ... I liked them in the early 80's but they're not worth it now ... :cool:;):confused:
 
Another line of thought...

What will you call a cue ordered to look like a SW (or any other cue) cue?
(Person comes to a cuemaker and says "Make me a cue just like this?". Cuemaker obliges with the request.)

It's not being passed on as a SW (insert any other cue name) cue.
 
BlowFish said:
Another line of thought...

What will you call a cue ordered to look like a SW (or any other cue) cue?
(Person comes to a cuemaker and says "Make me a cue just like this?". Cuemaker obliges with the request.)

It's not being passed on as a SW (insert any other cue name) cue.
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I would call it a "Custom Cue - South West Style".
 
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