Speed Control: The Secret Ingredient

K

ktrepal85

Banned
Why doesn't anyone ever talk about speed control? I think it's the most overlooked aspect of the game. Most people purposely leave themselves long so they have a shot.

The really good players roll the cue ball right up next to the object ball to a position where they can't miss and can easily get perfect on the next ball.

How would you normally play shape on the 9? Position A or B? A is obviously better but would you try for perfection or settle for a longer shot?

Forget all these crazy aiming conversations and get your speed control right!
 
About a year ago I posted a thread called "Speed: The Last Frontier" because as a new player I was so focused on aiming/english/etc, but then I realized speed control was actually the most difficult aspect of the shot.

In answer to your question I'd try for a spot between A and B. As you said, I'm typically very reluctant to try for A since I'd probably go long and leave myself a bank into the side pocket.

DallasHopps said:
What keeps the shooter from just rolling the 8 in the side and keeping the cueball there?
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Nothing. In the table diagram I guess you'd label that B-.
 
ktrepal85 said:
Why doesn't anyone ever talk about speed control? I think it's the most overlooked aspect of the game.
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It is not just speed control, it is energy control where the difference incorporates the spin on the CB as well as the velocity of the CB. A spinning CB will roll farther than a CB with exactly the same forward velocity but without the spin.

But, I also agree with the other person in a soft roll of the CB into the 8 leaves "just as good" position as the long 2 rail roll after contact.
 
MitchAlsup said:
It is not just speed control, it is energy control where the difference incorporates the spin on the CB as well as the velocity of the CB. A spinning CB will roll farther than a CB with exactly the same forward velocity but without the spin.

But, I also agree with the other person in a soft roll of the CB into the 8 leaves "just as good" position as the long 2 rail roll after contact.
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Well, for the sake of this post, assume the cut is thinner and a soft hit will send the cue ball further down table near the corner pocket.
 
ktrepal85 said:
Why doesn't anyone ever talk about speed control? I think it's the most overlooked aspect of the game. Most people purposely leave themselves long so they have a shot.

The really good players roll the cue ball right up next to the object ball to a position where they can't miss and can easily get perfect on the next ball.

How would you normally play shape on the 9? Position A or B? A is obviously better but would you try for perfection or settle for a longer shot?

Forget all these crazy aiming conversations and get your speed control right!
Click to expand...

It's not that easy. The same shot will not result in pocketing at any speed. And most players don't know how to adjust for different strokes and speed. Anyone who thinks that one aiming line for a specific angle pockets the object ball at any speed, is not aware of the physics of the game. And if he thinks he does this, he is not aware of subconscious adjustments.

Dealing with throw is maybe the toughest part of this game.
 
A wise player once told me that you can only impart three things to a CB: spin, direction and speed and speed is the most important. Speed control is the toughest part of the game to master. The better you get at it the more nuance there is to getting shape.
 
Personally I would do neither of your choices. I'd slow roll the eight & have the 9 straight in or a slight back cut on the 9. You don't need to use speed to get position when you already have it. Speed kills. Use as little as is necessary.
 
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philly said:
A wise player once told me that you can only impart three things to a CB: spin, direction and speed and speed is the most important. Speed control is the toughest part of the game to master. The better you get at it the more nuance there is to getting shape.
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He was right
 
ktrepal85 said:
Why doesn't anyone ever talk about speed control? I think it's the most overlooked aspect of the game. Most people purposely leave themselves long so they have a shot.

The really good players roll the cue ball right up next to the object ball to a position where they can't miss and can easily get perfect on the next ball.

How would you normally play shape on the 9? Position A or B? A is obviously better but would you try for perfection or settle for a longer shot?

Forget all these crazy aiming conversations and get your speed control right!
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying but the diagram is a poor example. In that case just roll the 8 in and you will have an easy shot on the 9. Anything else is over thinking it.
 
It looks to me like slow-rolling the 8 will leave the CB on the rail around the 2nd diamond. Maybe it's just my inexperience but I find shots "along" the rail (just off of parallel to the rail) to be difficult.

I know I just need to practice those shots more, but they freak me out much more than a long shot like position B.
 
philly said:
You laugh at Mr. Johnson but there is something to what he states. A better player knows when to take what the table is giving him rather than to force shape.
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There is nothing to what he said. A player who has mastered his speed control is not forcing anything. He is just comfortable enough with the shot that he knows he can land the cue ball up close. A weaker player such as Patrick Johnson does not have confidence in his speed control so he would leave himself a long shot because he is too scared of over rolling position.
 
ktrepal85 said:
There is nothing to what he said. A player who has mastered his speed control is not forcing anything. He is just comfortable enough with the shot that he knows he can land the cue ball up close. A weaker player such as Patrick Johnson does not have confidence in his speed control so he would leave himself a long shot because he is too scared of over rolling position.
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kt, I think your missing something and your game is probably over aggressive. I believe he is saying that if you have confidence in your shot making you take what the table gives you in some circumstances, not all circumstances. It's the same mental approach when playing against a very good run out artist that when the shot is very difficult or you know you cannot get shape on the next ball you play safe. I have the feeling you don't play very many safeties.
 
philly said:
kt, I think your missing something and your game is probably over aggressive. I believe he is saying that if you have confidence in your shot making you take what the table gives you in some circumstances, not all circumstances. It's the same mental approach when playing against a very good run out artist that when the shot is very difficult or you know you cannot get shape on the next ball you play safe. I have the feeling you don't play very many safeties.
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Keep shooting the same way and you'll keep getting the same results...
 
Feel

ktrepal85 said:
Why doesn't anyone ever talk about speed control? I think it's the most overlooked aspect of the game. Most people purposely leave themselves long so they have a shot.

The really good players roll the cue ball right up next to the object ball to a position where they can't miss and can easily get perfect on the next ball.

How would you normally play shape on the 9? Position A or B? A is obviously better but would you try for perfection or settle for a longer shot?

Forget all these crazy aiming conversations and get your speed control right!
Click to expand...

The answer to your question is quite simply that there are formulas for pocketing balls and applying spin. There are no formulas for speed. I can't simply tell a student to hit the next shot at 11 miles an hour, or even to hit it at "medium speed", because that's a subjective term.

Speed control comes from developing "feel", and "feel" comes mostly from experience.
 
ktrepal85 said:
A player who has mastered his speed control is not forcing anything. He is just comfortable enough with the shot that he knows he can land the cue ball up close. A weaker player such as Patrick Johnson does not have confidence in his speed control so he would leave himself a long shot because he is too scared of over rolling position.
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In reality it's just the opposite. The stronger player is more confident of his shotmaking ability so doesn't need to risk selling out for "perfect" shape.

And btw, I forgive you for the knee-jerk insult - with time and experience you'll come to learn from corrections instead of letting them make you defensive.

pj
chgo
 
Donny Lutz said:
The answer to your question is quite simply that there are formulas for pocketing balls and applying spin. There are no formulas for speed. I can't simply tell a student to hit the next shot at 11 miles an hour, or even to hit it at "medium speed", because that's a subjective term.

Speed control comes from developing "feel", and "feel" comes mostly from experience.
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You are correct Donny. Speed control comes from experience. I have a feeling and I can't be sure, but it sounds as if the OP doesn't have much experience.
 
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