Speed Control: The Secret Ingredient

[fastone371]

I frequently do speed drills on my table at home. Almost every table I play on I lag and shoot a couple 3 rail shots to get an idea of how fast the table plays. When I am setting up a shot I find myself telling myself that this shot will require a 3 speed or a 5 speed according to my speed drills that I do. I try to get shape with center ball and speed whenever possible. I am not afraid of english, in fact in the last year I have become very comfortable using it. This will be the start of my 5th year playing pool so I am a late bloomer.

 

[ktrepal85]

In reality it's just the opposite. The stronger player is more confident of his shotmaking ability so doesn't need to risk selling out for "perfect" shape.

And btw, I forgive you for the knee-jerk insult - with time and experience you'll come to learn from corrections instead of letting them make you defensive.

pj
chgo

There is risk in shooting a long shot just like there is risk playing for close position. The point that you're not getting is that the risk is very minimal to someone who has mastered speed control. It's automatic. Long shots are not automatic and playing perfect position after a long shot is definitely not automatic.

Great players do not want to rely on their shotmaking ability to win. They want the cue ball nice and close to the object ball so the shot is simple and it's not something they have to worry about. They are only concerned about getting perfect position on the next shot.

As soon as you start settling for longer harder shots you are taking focus off positioning and putting it on shotmaking. Because of this, your positional play on the next shot will suffer. Eventually these minor imperfect positional shots will snowball and catch up with you and you'll be way out of line. This is where guys like Philly will play a safe and give up the table.

 

[philly]

{Great players do not want to rely on their shotmaking ability to win. They want the cue ball nice and close to the object ball so the shot is simple and it's not something they have to worry about. They are only concerned about getting perfect position on the next shot.}




In a perfect world yes. I play imperfectly. I am a solid B player that can elevate to an A game on any given session. I play only on 9 footers usually with double shimmed pockets and yes in a perfect scenario you always want a shorter shot. It doesn't always work out that way though, so I, and I believe Mr. Johnson takes what the table gives us so we may move on to the next ball. Safeties are an integral part of the game from 9ball to one pocket especially when you play against opponents that can get out from anywhere.

 

[ktrepal85]

{Great players do not want to rely on their shotmaking ability to win. They want the cue ball nice and close to the object ball so the shot is simple and it's not something they have to worry about. They are only concerned about getting perfect position on the next shot.}




In a perfect world yes. I play imperfectly. I am a solid B player that can elevate to an A game on any given session. I play only on 9 footers usually with double shimmed pockets and yes in a perfect scenario you always want a shorter shot. It doesn't always work out that way though, so I, and I believe Mr. Johnson takes what the table gives us so we may move on to the next ball. Safeties are an integral part of the game from 9ball to one pocket especially when you play against opponents that can get out from anywhere.

Now take your comment and match it up with the comment that started this whole debate:

I believe this is backward - better players tend to go for longer, safer shape. It's the inexperienced player that tries to get too perfect.

pj
chgo

And this is why I laughed at Patrick's comment...it makes no sense. You're saying that if you play perfect you'll end up close to the object ball(which makes sense). Patrick is saying that if you play perfect you'll lay up for the long shot(which makes no sense). Yet you guys are sticking up for one another...hmmm

 

[philly]

kt, I see what you are saying but I interpreted what Patrick was saying differently than you as in take what the table allows you. Of course the shorter shot is optimal. In a perfect world I want all short shots.

 

[ENGLISH!]

It looks to me like slow-rolling the 8 will leave the CB on the rail around the 2nd diamond. Maybe it's just my inexperience but I find shots "along" the rail (just off of parallel to the rail) to be difficult.

I know I just need to practice those shots more, but they freak me out much more than a long shot like position B.

Slow rolling the 8 should not get the cue ball past the 3rd diamond even on a fast table especially if you cheat the pocket.

As to shooting back cuts from off the side rails I think you really should shoot them until you loose that fear.

One needs to get 'comfortable' from all positions. Shoot'em til you get over your fear.

I'd rather be closer to the OB on almost all shots. Closer is almost always better but I also agree with PJ going for perfect shape when not needed can at times bite you in the butt. It's more important to stay on or get on the correct side of the shot, unless it's the last shot, then to me closer is better.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

 

[pt109]

In reality it's just the opposite. The stronger player is more confident of his shotmaking ability so doesn't need to risk selling out for "perfect" shape.

And btw, I forgive you for the knee-jerk insult - with time and experience you'll come to learn from corrections instead of letting them make you defensive.

pj
chgo

I agree about staying back...experienced players play percentage shape....
...where you get a shot ALL the time.
I watched a money match in 2006 where Alcano lost hill/hill...he was in that out-Efren Efren
stage and three times he he almost froze on a ball trying to get "ball-in-hand position"
...he had to play safe...any player could've got better position jacked up with one hand.

...and I like your response to his disdainful post....you are becoming a guru.

 

[ENGLISH!]

The answer to your question is quite simply that there are formulas for pocketing balls and applying spin. There are no formulas for speed. I can't simply tell a student to hit the next shot at 11 miles an hour, or even to hit it at "medium speed", because that's a subjective term.

Speed control comes from developing "feel", and "feel" comes mostly from experience.

:thumbup:

Some, perhaps many, never get 'feel' because they are too mechanical, contrived, or scientific formula based. It's almost as though 'feel' has no place in their nature.

 

[garczar]

It's comparable to trajectory control for a golfer: it's the key ingredient that makes you a player. Making balls comes pretty quickly but speed takes serious table time to develop. Over the years i've been lucky to watch BuddyHall play/practice a lot and it was always his sense of speed that left me near speechless. At BoulderBilliards in Tulsa we used to call it 18"shape because he always got on the correct angle and 18" away from the next shot. Buddy's surgical precision left many a opponent feeling kinda helpless.

 

[Poolmanis]

Why doesn't anyone ever talk about speed control? I think it's the most overlooked aspect of the game. Most people purposely leave themselves long so they have a shot.

The really good players roll the cue ball right up next to the object ball to a position where they can't miss and can easily get perfect on the next ball.

How would you normally play shape on the 9? Position A or B? A is obviously better but would you try for perfection or settle for a longer shot?

Forget all these crazy aiming conversations and get your speed control right!

Too bad but secret formula to superb speed control is ability to pocket ball really accurately. Too thin and you probably overrun position and vice versa...

 

[ENGLISH!]

There is risk in shooting a long shot just like there is risk playing for close position. The point that you're not getting is that the risk is very minimal to someone who has mastered speed control. It's automatic. Long shots are not automatic and playing perfect position after a long shot is definitely not automatic.

Great players do not want to rely on their shotmaking ability to win. They want the cue ball nice and close to the object ball so the shot is simple and it's not something they have to worry about. They are only concerned about getting perfect position on the next shot.

As soon as you start settling for longer harder shots you are taking focus off positioning and putting it on shotmaking. Because of this, your positional play on the next shot will suffer. Eventually these minor imperfect positional shots will snowball and catch up with you and you'll be way out of line. This is where guys like Philly will play a safe and give up the table.

I tend to agree with you here & that good close shape became more important to me after my eye accident & I developed an astigmatism. But... that does not mean one should go all fancy when there is no need to do so. Get the best shape with the least amount of effort. There were many times when I went for prefect shape only to role that 1/2 or 1/4 ball roll to far or too short & was on the wrong side of the ball to get shape on the next ball. Then one is working hard for that next one when a little less perfect would have been much better then 'perfect'.

I think some of us are saying the same thing just in different ways & maybe leaving out parts of the big picture.

I think the reason 'speed' is not talked about is because as Mr. Lutz said, it is something that is learned by experience & the feel for it can not really be taught, especially in a text format such as this.

Now style of play or plan of play is another story.

Best 2 Ya & like Sinatra said, 'Do it your way' or something like that.:wink:
Rick

 

[ps611846]

Too bad but secret formula to superb speed control is ability to pocket ball really accurately. Too thin and you probably overrun position and vice versa...

Exactly !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Patrick Johnson]

As soon as you start settling for longer harder shots you are taking focus off positioning and putting it on shotmaking.

Speak for yourself. Top players choose a pinpoint position target that also gives them room for error. They weigh the odds of missing position against the odds of missing the next shot and play accordingly - they don't play for the best possible position every time.

pj
chgo

 

[ENGLISH!]

Too bad but secret formula to superb speed control is ability to pocket ball really accurately. Too thin and you probably overrun position and vice versa...

Yes, & that is partly why I had to mention cheating the pocket to keep the cue ball from going too far & all the way to the rail when slow rolling it.

It looks like you already know this but I'm just mentioning it for others.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

 

[accustatsfan]

What comes first the chicken or the egg?
Better players are experts at coming with the first shot and controlling both cueball direction and speed.

Once they are in line they are expert at controlling cueball direction and leaving a shot

I remember a number of accustat tapes where the commentator thought amateurs made mistakes by trying to get to close to the next ball when they should focus more on maintaining shot angles.

Of course everything depends on leaving a makeable shot while leaving an angle for cueball position.

 

[ceebee]

Speed is a critical component in playing good Pool. But so is Aiming. Both are required. Adding in some spin to the equation gives the player more to think about. Practice & experience gives a player some good feel for the shot, to accomplish the task at hand.

I like to practice the "L" Drill, the "Circle" Drill & the "Long String" Drill when practicing, I find they are good for speed, aiming & needed spin. I have a copy of Bob Hemming's Pro Book. I like to shoot some of his "pattern Shots", but either extend the shot to another stopping place or shorten the shot to a different stopping place. That's my way of practicing the speed component of a shot.

Good Luck to all...

 

[Matt]

Speak for yourself. Top players choose a pinpoint position target that also gives them room for error. They weigh the odds of missing position against the odds of missing the next shot and play accordingly - they don't play for the best possible position every time.

pj
chgo

I believe that the concept of playing to a position zone is what you are getting at here. Because you have to allow some room for error, the center of the position zone you are shooting for is in a different place than ideal, BIH position; it is usually further away from the next object ball. Better players can play to smaller zones, and therefore be closer to the object ball, but you are right in saying that they still maintain a buffer in case they get the speed or angle wrong. I would almost always prefer to be 2 feet from my object ball over 2 inches from it.

The other related concept that I think it important is playing position along the shot line when possible. Since the acceptable position zone is usually oval-shaped, playing along the shot line allows for more error in speed control than playing across it. Most good players automatically choose to play position along the shot line when given the option.

 

[HawaiianEye]

If you hit all the balls at a "somewhat" consistent speed, it isn't such a major adjustment from shot to shot.

I hit almost every ball with some "pace", even if they are close to the pocket. I also try to keep my angles somewhat constant...not too thin...not too thick. That way, I can keep the same speed on the shot and control the motion of the cue ball better because almost every shot is similar, until I get out of line.

If you get out of line, you do whatever you have to do to get back in line...then you start over.

Buddy Hall supposedly said, "Don't play position if you already have it".

 

[Straightpool_99]

Too bad but secret formula to superb speed control is ability to pocket ball really accurately. Too thin and you probably overrun position and vice versa...

THIS.

Only when truely accurate pocketing has been learned does the position play learning truely begin. I'm talking about shooting into the correct third of the pocket, not merely making the ball any way. When you are slopping balls in, the position will be hit or miss and seemingly for no good reason. I hate to be one of those guys talking about snooker in a pool thread, but the one thing you learn from snooker is to play the angle that you have. In order to do that you have to be able to hit it, and know how to use the whole cue ball, in very small increments. In pool you have a bigger pocket and more angles into the pocket to choose from. You can do certain shots with other englishes than you would use at the snooker table, by just shooting into a different part of the pocket. You still need to hit your chosen angle to get your position, though. Lots of people I know who play pool at an ok league level (not world beaters obviously, lol) use "on-or-off" english. They either use max draw, center or max follow....Doing that you obviously have to hit different parts of the pocket and you will have a reduced margin for error in your pocketing, while the position play will rarely be accurate neither in speed or direction.

 

[philly]

If you hit all the balls at a "somewhat" consistent speed, it isn't such a major adjustment from shot to shot.

I hit almost every ball with some "pace", even if they are close to the pocket. I also try to keep my angles somewhat constant...not too thin...not too thick. That way, I can keep the same speed on the shot and control the motion of the cue ball better because almost every shot is similar, until I get out of line.

If you get out of line, you do whatever you have to do to get back in line...then you start over.

Buddy Hall supposedly said, "Don't play position if you already have it".

Buddy was right. This is what I meant earlier in the thread by "taking what the table gives you." It's not a difficult concept but sometimes takes a while to realize.