SPF Poll
- Thread starter JoeW
- Start date
And, Joe, while you're walking down the aisle rapping knuckles, don't miss this guy either.
Lou Figueroa
still, can't quite
picture Joe as a nun
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Guess I am missing something - I thought it was funny, actually. I realize it's at the expense of Lou but you have to admit it was funny.
I made one plea for everyone to refrain from a flame war. That does not make me a monitor. My request was in the interest of a reasonable poll.
My conclusions
This poll is for anyone who has ever taken a lesson with any SFP instructor. It lumps them all together. Comparing the responses to your particular numbers is probably not useful until there are many more responses. We need about 300 responses to have good population estimates that could be used for individual comparison.
This poll includes first time instructors with every other SPF instructor. There are statistical tests (such as the Z-Test) that could be used for comparing your set of 30 or so respondents assessed roughly three months later by a third party with the current poll. For those with a background in statistics this is a Likert scale and you would need to use the same scaling procedure.
In the helping professions there is what is known as the hello – good bye effect. Essentially when you go to see someone and you have a problem, after they help you and you pay them money for the help you have a tendency to say that their “treatment” worked, especially if the person who provided the treatment is asking about their efforts. This is also known as the resolution of dissonance: there must be a reason I paid you money and it is best (for my own well being) to say that you helped. That is I can justify my time and expense by saying that you helped.
A poll that gathers evaluative information by an independent party at some time after the treatment can be expected to be more objective in that it is more likely to include those who, later, decide they were not pleased.
There is also the tendency for people who were not satisfied with their instruction to refrain from voting: If one can’t say something good, don’t say anything. In addition, many people are not sure if their dissatisfaction is their personal problem or the instructor's and the respondent does not want to in some way obstruct another’s work.
If anything, the poll is biased in terms of those who liked what they received. Given that perhaps thousands of people have taken lessons, at least that is what I have been told, the turn out is not too bad. Apparently 7 or 8 out of ten people who seek out SPF instructors are satisfied with their experience. It is reasonable to conclude (from this small study) that their customers are usually satified. Apparently, there is little deception in advertising or the satisfaction estimates would not be this high. This is, of course, a hypothesis for further testing. As it stands the poll leads to the idea that their work is well accepted by their customers regardless of the advertising methods.
My conclusions
This poll is for anyone who has ever taken a lesson with any SFP instructor. It lumps them all together. Comparing the responses to your particular numbers is probably not useful until there are many more responses. We need about 300 responses to have good population estimates that could be used for individual comparison.
This poll includes first time instructors with every other SPF instructor. There are statistical tests (such as the Z-Test) that could be used for comparing your set of 30 or so respondents assessed roughly three months later by a third party with the current poll. For those with a background in statistics this is a Likert scale and you would need to use the same scaling procedure.
In the helping professions there is what is known as the hello – good bye effect. Essentially when you go to see someone and you have a problem, after they help you and you pay them money for the help you have a tendency to say that their “treatment” worked, especially if the person who provided the treatment is asking about their efforts. This is also known as the resolution of dissonance: there must be a reason I paid you money and it is best (for my own well being) to say that you helped. That is I can justify my time and expense by saying that you helped.
A poll that gathers evaluative information by an independent party at some time after the treatment can be expected to be more objective in that it is more likely to include those who, later, decide they were not pleased.
There is also the tendency for people who were not satisfied with their instruction to refrain from voting: If one can’t say something good, don’t say anything. In addition, many people are not sure if their dissatisfaction is their personal problem or the instructor's and the respondent does not want to in some way obstruct another’s work.
If anything, the poll is biased in terms of those who liked what they received. Given that perhaps thousands of people have taken lessons, at least that is what I have been told, the turn out is not too bad. Apparently 7 or 8 out of ten people who seek out SPF instructors are satisfied with their experience. It is reasonable to conclude (from this small study) that their customers are usually satified. Apparently, there is little deception in advertising or the satisfaction estimates would not be this high. This is, of course, a hypothesis for further testing. As it stands the poll leads to the idea that their work is well accepted by their customers regardless of the advertising methods.
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Trigger:
Yes, I guess you did miss something. Poolplayer2093 earlier made a comment that appeared to be anti-SPF, and Joe felt it might start another flame war so he told poolplayer2093 that inflamatory comments were not welcome in this thread. While I agree with you that the "figueroa" barb was funny (well, at least clever), there is absolutely no doubt that it was intended to inflame. So, fair is fair.
And now that I'm thinking about it, in the interest of conducting truly unbiased polls, should comments on the subject, either pro or con, be allowed before the termination of the poll? I mean, could there be any chance that people's votes might be influenced by what they read before voting?
Roger
I agree Roger that any comments can influence the poll. However, under the current conditions that can not be avoided. There was and there are pro and con comments. In a sense they randomize out, much like a political poll conducted prior to an election. Some comments are / would be, more influential than others. Hence my request to refrain. This request may have helped -- a little.
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Respectfully, I didn't miss anything. It was my way of saying the comment was funny/clever. I read the other thread as it was going on so I knew the background and still thought he should not be "warned" for being clever. That's all.
I fully admit I don't see it as flaming. I'm prolly completely in the norm though.
Back to voting people!
I find "satisfied" misleading
Joe,
The weakness of any poll of this nature, and as you mention, I find "satisfied" misleading. Many people feel obligated to poll "satisfied" when they aren't really pleased but aren't strongly dissatisfied or feel rightly or wrongly that their dissatisfaction may be partially their own fault. This isn't a comment directed at this poll but all polls of this nature.
Addressing this poll, if my cyphering is correct about seventeen percent of people that have taken SPF instruction that have also taken the poll admit dissatisfaction with the SPF instruction. I find that a disturbingly high number of unsatisfied customers. We condemn many a cue maker or supplier for two or three percent unhappy customers.
Not exactly apples to apples but I would be very unhappy if any of my businesses had over 5% unhappy customers and even that was very bad. By rule of thumb(mine) I figure that one unhappy customer does you as much harm as twenty happy customers do you good. My businesses were for local trade so they lived or died by word of mouth. I felt that my goal was maybe one in a hundred or less unhappy customers and that this was an achievable goal.
Hu
Joe,
The weakness of any poll of this nature, and as you mention, I find "satisfied" misleading. Many people feel obligated to poll "satisfied" when they aren't really pleased but aren't strongly dissatisfied or feel rightly or wrongly that their dissatisfaction may be partially their own fault. This isn't a comment directed at this poll but all polls of this nature.
Addressing this poll, if my cyphering is correct about seventeen percent of people that have taken SPF instruction that have also taken the poll admit dissatisfaction with the SPF instruction. I find that a disturbingly high number of unsatisfied customers. We condemn many a cue maker or supplier for two or three percent unhappy customers.
Not exactly apples to apples but I would be very unhappy if any of my businesses had over 5% unhappy customers and even that was very bad. By rule of thumb(mine) I figure that one unhappy customer does you as much harm as twenty happy customers do you good. My businesses were for local trade so they lived or died by word of mouth. I felt that my goal was maybe one in a hundred or less unhappy customers and that this was an achievable goal.
Hu
umm, so what you're saying is: no one is going to get their pee pee whacked, right?
Lou Figueroa
thought AT LEAST someone would be told
to go stand in the corner for a time out
It could also indicate that you have very good communication skills. Keep up the good work. :thumbup:
p.s. This is not meant as a pro-SPF statement, so please don't think it is inflamatory.
Roger
It was funny.
Lou Figueroa
just not THAT funny
"clever" should have been the word I used instead then.
It is very unusual for any group to obtain scores much higher than what were obtained here, when an objective third party evaluation is conducted.
If I were consulting with the SPF group (as I have with many different professional groups) I would tell them that their efforts are currently highly successful and that there is no need to pay too much attention to a few unsatisfied customers.
It would be good to determine exactly what the problems were with some of the unsatisfied customers to address any potentially hidden issues. The results obtained are supportive of their current approach.
For what it is worth I taught graduate classes in program planning and evaluation and have consulted with many groups over the years.
It has been my experience that people involved in the same occupations who find fault with their colleagues do themselves more harm than good. There are usually official or semi-official ways to work with improper conduct.
With regard to bias, I admire the work of RandyG. I think he is an excellent teacher with a commendable approach to teaching others to play pool. I think that SPF is probably one of the better ways to address fundamental issues.
I do not hold all SPF instructors in high esteem nor do I think that SPF is the "best" of several approaches though it is among the best of approaches.
I do believe in fairness and think that some acrimonious debates can be addressed with more objective procedures.
Hu, while there are problems with the word "satisfied" it is a standard term used in evaluations research and is thought to be somewhat useful though it has limits. Such terms are often used in conjuncton with several other items and together allow one to construct a better assessment. There is a time and money trade off. Different people use different terms each carries excess baggage.
If I were consulting with the SPF group (as I have with many different professional groups) I would tell them that their efforts are currently highly successful and that there is no need to pay too much attention to a few unsatisfied customers.
It would be good to determine exactly what the problems were with some of the unsatisfied customers to address any potentially hidden issues. The results obtained are supportive of their current approach.
For what it is worth I taught graduate classes in program planning and evaluation and have consulted with many groups over the years.
It has been my experience that people involved in the same occupations who find fault with their colleagues do themselves more harm than good. There are usually official or semi-official ways to work with improper conduct.
With regard to bias, I admire the work of RandyG. I think he is an excellent teacher with a commendable approach to teaching others to play pool. I think that SPF is probably one of the better ways to address fundamental issues.
I do not hold all SPF instructors in high esteem nor do I think that SPF is the "best" of several approaches though it is among the best of approaches.
I do believe in fairness and think that some acrimonious debates can be addressed with more objective procedures.
Hu, while there are problems with the word "satisfied" it is a standard term used in evaluations research and is thought to be somewhat useful though it has limits. Such terms are often used in conjuncton with several other items and together allow one to construct a better assessment. There is a time and money trade off. Different people use different terms each carries excess baggage.
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I agree
Joe,
I do agree with what you are saying here. "Satisfied" is a pretty standard choice and one I have often struggled with making myself as if I respond to a poll I try to do it fairly. Without a lot of follow up with every single responder "Satisfied" responders should probably be tossed out in my opinion. The response is neutral enough that I suspect half or more of the people given better choices and only rating their experience as "satisfied" aren't really satisfied. The phrase "damning with faint praise" comes to mind.
I'm not a professional pollster although I have conducted a few besides on the internet. Polls that were related to my businesses. From a business owner's standpoint poll results such as I am reading here would have me making immediate and major changes in the way I conducted my business. Since this poll is concerning multiple businesses it isn't an indication that any particular business has a problem or that the SPF system itself is flawed. In my opinion it is a very strong indication that all is not well in the SPF world however.
One thing that wasn't asked was which level of class the people had taken. Were they dissatisfied with basic, advanced, or expert level classes? I believe three levels are taught if I remember correctly.
Hu
Joe,
I do agree with what you are saying here. "Satisfied" is a pretty standard choice and one I have often struggled with making myself as if I respond to a poll I try to do it fairly. Without a lot of follow up with every single responder "Satisfied" responders should probably be tossed out in my opinion. The response is neutral enough that I suspect half or more of the people given better choices and only rating their experience as "satisfied" aren't really satisfied. The phrase "damning with faint praise" comes to mind.
I'm not a professional pollster although I have conducted a few besides on the internet. Polls that were related to my businesses. From a business owner's standpoint poll results such as I am reading here would have me making immediate and major changes in the way I conducted my business. Since this poll is concerning multiple businesses it isn't an indication that any particular business has a problem or that the SPF system itself is flawed. In my opinion it is a very strong indication that all is not well in the SPF world however.
One thing that wasn't asked was which level of class the people had taken. Were they dissatisfied with basic, advanced, or expert level classes? I believe three levels are taught if I remember correctly.
Hu
Hu, a good survey is supposed to make you think and perhaps even struggle with arriving at an honest opinion. To that extent the word satisfied is often a reasonable choice of words. The neutral point was intentionally left out.
In general, when people do not want to think too much about their opinion they simply select the neutral opinion. In this sense the “satisfied” option take on more, not less significance. Studies have been conducted to determine if a survey is more or less useful and reflective of the sample under consideration by including and excluding a neutral point. It is my opinion that the exclusion of the neutral point forces a data set that is more reflective of the underlying phenomena. Of course people have different opinions and I can appreciate your thoughts. There are others who agree with your point of view.
To some extent there is an art and a science of conducting polls. In the real world the results of surveys can also be evaluated with how well they contribute to decision making over some period of time and in comparison to other methods. Results of these studies, like many others, lead to the “it depends” conclusion and so there continues to be an art and a science for conducting surveys. I think it is more science than art but …
In general, when people do not want to think too much about their opinion they simply select the neutral opinion. In this sense the “satisfied” option take on more, not less significance. Studies have been conducted to determine if a survey is more or less useful and reflective of the sample under consideration by including and excluding a neutral point. It is my opinion that the exclusion of the neutral point forces a data set that is more reflective of the underlying phenomena. Of course people have different opinions and I can appreciate your thoughts. There are others who agree with your point of view.
To some extent there is an art and a science of conducting polls. In the real world the results of surveys can also be evaluated with how well they contribute to decision making over some period of time and in comparison to other methods. Results of these studies, like many others, lead to the “it depends” conclusion and so there continues to be an art and a science for conducting surveys. I think it is more science than art but …
Why are there so many inflammatory commemts about SPF? Is it the message or the messengers?
Not saying there aren't things to be learned from this or almost any "system"
But some of you folks are a little scary with your manic devotion.
Like ya'll's souls have been saved and you are born again... "I SEE THE LIGHT!!!"
Ya'll should start a "Church of SPFology"...
LULZ... All in fun guys.
*edit* BTW; I can put this on T-Shirts for anyone interested.
LOL dog good 1!