spliced construction & Balance Point???

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King Kong

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Hello!

I have been wondering why snooker cues have a slice out of the back of the butt? I noticed older one piece & 2 piece cues from the 1900's were sliced on the butt as well. But, Why????

It just dawned on me that with no bolts in the constrution of the cues the cue maker had no way of changing the balance point of the cue. So, shaving off peices of the butt end containing the heavier wood, heavier then the maple or ash, would result in the balance point moving forward to a position more desireable. EUREKA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am amazed that the master cue makers were that slick and smart!!!! They must have known the balance point was important back in the 1900's. It's the only logical explaination for trimming the material off!

I just thought about some thing. All the sneaky pete's and house cues are typically back heavy due to the heavier woods used in construction. Plus. viganaux allows you to have one piece construction and no weight bolts or joining pins while allowing the cue maker to control the balance point if you shave or slice the back. I assume that slicing little by little and checking its balance point for comfort until it is right for the player is the approach they used?

Have any cue makers experimented with this concept? If so how did it come out? Is my assumption silly and inaccurate and if so I would love to here the explaination for why the back ends of snooker cues and old 1900's were done that way?

I thought this topic was some good food for thought! Love to here from others???


King Kong
 
King Kong said:
Hello!

I have been wondering why snooker cues have a slice out of the back of the butt? I noticed older one piece & 2 piece cues from the 1900's were sliced on the butt as well. But, Why????

It just dawned on me that with no bolts in the constrution of the cues the cue maker had no way of changing the balance point of the cue. So, shaving off peices of the butt end containing the heavier wood, heavier then the maple or ash, would result in the balance point moving forward to a position more desireable. EUREKA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am amazed that the master cue makers were that slick and smart!!!! They must have known the balance point was important back in the 1900's. It's the only logical explaination for trimming the material off!

I just thought about some thing. All the sneaky pete's and house cues are typically back heavy due to the heavier woods used in construction. Plus. viganaux allows you to have one piece construction and no weight bolts or joining pins while allowing the cue maker to control the balance point if you shave or slice the back. I assume that slicing little by little and checking its balance point for comfort until it is right for the player is the approach they used?

Have any cue makers experimented with this concept? If so how did it come out? Is my assumption silly and inaccurate and if so I would love to here the explaination for why the back ends of snooker cues and old 1900's were done that way?

I thought this topic was some good food for thought! Love to here from others???

King Kong
Click to expand...
I recall reading on that subject, but cannot remember where. fwiw, what I read was the snooker cues were made like that to coincide with the smaller snooker balls. Them being smaller, the cues were cut flat on the butt to allow the cue to be held closer to level and to the table.
 
TellsItLikeItIs said:
I recall reading on that subject, but cannot remember where. fwiw, what I read was the snooker cues were made like that to coincide with the smaller snooker balls. Them being smaller, the cues were cut flat on the butt to allow the cue to be held closer to level and to the table.
Click to expand...

New rules I don't think allow it but for years and years when a cue-ball could not be reached in the standard way the cue could be reversed and held by the tip. The bumpers were round and that wedge made the bumper the right height to be used as a tip for shooting the cue-ball.

The main reason that many house-cues are so but heavy is that a peice of concrete re-bar is in the back of the butt to increase weight.

Dick
 
King Kong said:
Hello!

I have been wondering why snooker cues have a slice out of the back of the butt? I noticed older one piece & 2 piece cues from the 1900's were sliced on the butt as well. But, Why????

It just dawned on me that with no bolts in the constrution of the cues the cue maker had no way of changing the balance point of the cue. So, shaving off peices of the butt end containing the heavier wood, heavier then the maple or ash, would result in the balance point moving forward to a position more desireable. EUREKA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am amazed that the master cue makers were that slick and smart!!!! They must have known the balance point was important back in the 1900's. It's the only logical explaination for trimming the material off!

I just thought about some thing. All the sneaky pete's and house cues are typically back heavy due to the heavier woods used in construction. Plus. viganaux allows you to have one piece construction and no weight bolts or joining pins while allowing the cue maker to control the balance point if you shave or slice the back. I assume that slicing little by little and checking its balance point for comfort until it is right for the player is the approach they used?

Have any cue makers experimented with this concept? If so how did it come out? Is my assumption silly and inaccurate and if so I would love to here the explaination for why the back ends of snooker cues and old 1900's were done that way?

I thought this topic was some good food for thought! Love to here from others???


King Kong
Click to expand...

Originally the Qs were made with a flat on the butt & a piece of leather, covering the end of the butt. Then on a long shot the player held the tip end in his hand & laid the cue down on the flat. Then he would hit the ball with the butt end similar to shuffle board...JER
 
Actually, I believe the flat edge dates back to the old history of the game when it was played with a Mace and a player was allowed to slide the "Que" on the table to strike the ball. The flat edge allowed the "Que" to be slid with greater precision than a round end.
Mike
 
rhncue said:
New rules I don't think allow it but for years and years when a cue-ball could not be reached in the standard way the cue could be reversed and held by the tip. The bumpers were round and that wedge made the bumper the right height to be used as a tip for shooting the cue-ball.
Dick
Click to expand...

That sounds more logical than the story I read.

rhncue said:
The main reason that many house-cues are so but heavy is that a peice of concrete re-bar is in the back of the butt to increase weight.
Click to expand...
Never seen one with rebar in it. Interesting!
 
TellsItLikeItIs said:
That sounds more logical than the story I read.


Never seen one with rebar in it. Interesting!
Click to expand...



I've seen rebar, hunks of steel, and squares of wood jammed in on top of them to screw the bumper to. Never know what you might find in the back of one :rolleyes: :p If you ever have one that feels like something is sliding around in the back of the cue, then that may be what it is, as they sometimes come loose inside. Whenever I do a conversion, all that crap comes out of there, or is cut off, a new sleeve is added, and weight bolt if needed.
 
The reason are :

1. Sliced butt is to guide the cue to be played at the exact same position.
I mean you can place the sliced section facing upward,sideward or
downward.
It's something like a meucci red/black - dot cue. But the spliced
method enable to to trace the point faster than a dot. In Snooker,
player shoots by gripping on the same side of the cue every time.
2. Snooker and most billliard cues were shorter back in the old days. Some
players used this spliced to guide them in playing english. If you plays
lots of english or side spin you know what i mean. The spliced will be
aiming towards the object ball, and the cue shaft aiming as it is going
to miss the object ball (i don't how to put in words but i guess you
know what i'm saying)
3. Playing a power shot with spliced facing upward and the splice section
in your grip/hand will guide the cue to travel parallel to the playing
surface, especially draw shot.(something like holding the handle of the
rifle - it has a slight descending angle.)

I personally don't think that it is used for balancing the cue. A way to do
that without using a weight bolt or cutting away wood to reduce the
weight is by using butterfly point(different density wood) at the rear end
of the cue. I know it a difficult method but it is acheivable.



p/s- sorry for anything that you don't understand.. cos i'm half asleep... ZZZzzzz!!
 
King Kong said:
Hello!

I have been wondering why snooker cues have a slice out of the back of the butt?
Click to expand...

Billiards evolved from lawn croquet and likewise cues evolved from the mace. These were originally held completely in reverse The flat side of the slightly curved head sat flat on the bed of the table and the balls were shoved around. Some bright spark turned it round to play with the pointy end once and got good results. It caught on. The leather tip was added some time later to protect the wood, and chalk later still. The curve quickly disappeared but the traditional flat edge has stayed. It serves absolutely no purpose but makes a handy reference point. I just dont' feel comfortable holding it any other way but to the outside. Everyone has their own preference though. It really a makes no difference.

Given that the rules were changed long ago to prevent difficult shots being defeated by novelty cues (ie cues must be of minum length and traditional design), you could make a case that the design needs to include the flat. I've never seen it argued though.

Boro Nut
 
Purdman said:
Is Palmer the only cuemaker who used the shaved butt?
Purdman
Click to expand...

The Palmer H cue, shown here:

http://www.palmercollector.com/Model-H-page.html

Was made in the design of the original Brunswick 26 1/2, which dates back to about 1910 shown here:

http://www.proficientbilliards.com/cues/brunswick/fancy/thumbnails/index.htm

What happened was, Palmer's first styles like this were actually made from 26 1/2 Brunswicks. When those became harder to get, Palmer built their own, sometimes from Szamboti forearms.

On these particular Brunswick cues, the MOP wedge was used as a name plate for the owner. Otherwise, it was just for looks.

Chris
 
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