Sportsmanship
- Thread starter NewStroke
- Start date
I guess you pretty much summed up why I choose who I play with. Those people treat me with the same respect I give them. There are a lot of honest people out there and those people deserve much more credit than you are giving them.
Its always easy to say I would do this or I would do that, but until your living their life and have your rent depending on a win your really cant answer that question.
Some call it cheating, some call it playing by the rules. I ALWAYS call my own fouls, but I dont play with a ref so it is on me to do so. When I call someone over to watch a hit, they become the ref and what they call is final.
Playing league we had someone come over to watch a hit, I made the ball but the person called bad hit. After the game my opponent came over to me and said "I cant believe he called that bad". We both agreed to let him call it, so nothing was ever said.
I couldnt say he called it wrong and change the outcome, so if he had called it good but I knew it was bad whats the difference?
For those of you that want to single Earl out and say he is no longer on your list, you need to keep your pencil out and scratch off a few more names. If you study Straight Pool for any length of time you will mark names like Mizerak, Sigel, Varner, Archer, and most any other player that has double hit a ball while the ref was watching but never said anything. Often when they were in or close to the pack it would be an obvious double hit, but the Ref was either untrained or didnt want to call the foul on such a big name.
Im not saying what Earl or any of the others is right or wrong, Im saying until we have had to live their lives and depend on pool and rolls for our paycheck then we will never know what we will do.
Some call it cheating, some call it playing by the rules. I ALWAYS call my own fouls, but I dont play with a ref so it is on me to do so. When I call someone over to watch a hit, they become the ref and what they call is final.
Playing league we had someone come over to watch a hit, I made the ball but the person called bad hit. After the game my opponent came over to me and said "I cant believe he called that bad". We both agreed to let him call it, so nothing was ever said.
I couldnt say he called it wrong and change the outcome, so if he had called it good but I knew it was bad whats the difference?
For those of you that want to single Earl out and say he is no longer on your list, you need to keep your pencil out and scratch off a few more names. If you study Straight Pool for any length of time you will mark names like Mizerak, Sigel, Varner, Archer, and most any other player that has double hit a ball while the ref was watching but never said anything. Often when they were in or close to the pack it would be an obvious double hit, but the Ref was either untrained or didnt want to call the foul on such a big name.
Im not saying what Earl or any of the others is right or wrong, Im saying until we have had to live their lives and depend on pool and rolls for our paycheck then we will never know what we will do.
I used to play baseball. How about the times you get called out stealing and don't complain or create a scene when you know you were out? There were also plays where I could not tell you what happened because it was so close or happened so fast, so I couldn't argue one way or another.
I was raised to play to the best of my ability, not to my manipulation skill. I have always enjoyed every sport I played and sleep well at night knowing that I did it the right way.
DISCLAIMER: I have plenty of other flaws, but this is not one of them
I remember that.....
I remember seeing this little incident when it was first televised. Personally, I was very disappointed in Earl when he did this. I wouldn't want to win like this. It was poetic justice that Charlie did, indeed, win that game. It's just another black mark against Earl. Shame, shame, shame.....
I remember seeing this little incident when it was first televised. Personally, I was very disappointed in Earl when he did this. I wouldn't want to win like this. It was poetic justice that Charlie did, indeed, win that game. It's just another black mark against Earl. Shame, shame, shame.....
It is a lot easier to pick on Earl, especially since he seems to be under the microscope more than the other Hall of Famers currently still playing competitively.
What ever some may think about this particular situation it isn't as bad as some of the other so-called Gentlemen players still competing.
Just recently in Vegas, Rodney Morris acted like a raging idiot getting into the face of the UPA's current president Franky Alverez so bad, during the tournament, that Rodney was DQ'd and had to publicly apologize (see AZ bulletins).
Cheating is just one of the Unsportsmanlike conduct violations. But Earl did not Cheat, he just played by the rules. The ref is there to call the fouls not the shooter or the opponent.
What ever some may think about this particular situation it isn't as bad as some of the other so-called Gentlemen players still competing.
Just recently in Vegas, Rodney Morris acted like a raging idiot getting into the face of the UPA's current president Franky Alverez so bad, during the tournament, that Rodney was DQ'd and had to publicly apologize (see AZ bulletins).
Cheating is just one of the Unsportsmanlike conduct violations. But Earl did not Cheat, he just played by the rules. The ref is there to call the fouls not the shooter or the opponent.
Newstroke, this topic has come up before, but it's always worth a good discussion 
A good, professional example I like to provide is women's tennis in the 80's.....the top competitors, like Martina, Graf, and Everet, they would often make the right call in spite of the chair or the line judge.....ie, Martina would hit a ball down the line, and the line judge would call the ball in, although Martina and her opponent both saw it was out.....she would clearly state the ball was out, giving the point to her opponent.....and this was often in the finals, with large $$$ on the line, and prestigious titles like Wimbledon and the US Open in the balance....true sportsmanship....
And there is no reason we can't take these ideals in the pool hall.....so many people say that the future of pool is getting kids interested and playing.....well, their parents would be much more apt to let them play if they knew they were getting the right message....much like the huge support the first tee gets because of the honor/lessons learned in golf....
A good, professional example I like to provide is women's tennis in the 80's.....the top competitors, like Martina, Graf, and Everet, they would often make the right call in spite of the chair or the line judge.....ie, Martina would hit a ball down the line, and the line judge would call the ball in, although Martina and her opponent both saw it was out.....she would clearly state the ball was out, giving the point to her opponent.....and this was often in the finals, with large $$$ on the line, and prestigious titles like Wimbledon and the US Open in the balance....true sportsmanship....
And there is no reason we can't take these ideals in the pool hall.....so many people say that the future of pool is getting kids interested and playing.....well, their parents would be much more apt to let them play if they knew they were getting the right message....much like the huge support the first tee gets because of the honor/lessons learned in golf....
OK that was for $16k sorry to admit it but if the ref was incompetent who am I to do his job for him. In the NBA when a ref misses a foul have you ever once seen the player who got away with the foul stop the play and send a guy to the line. No he doesn't, know why because the calls go both ways, maybe Charlie didnt get that call, but bet your ass he got one along the way. In no other sport where there is a ref or umpire present can a player even call a foul on themselves, pool is no different IMO. If it's two guys playing, get someone to watch the hit.
What does it say of Charlie to wanna get ball in hand to run the last 5 balls in that type of pressure situation on a foul that most pros go years without making? It was one of those things where I think the better sportsmanship is to not take ball in hand for moving a 5 ball while doing a super tough bridge after Charlie donked a ball and got lucky to have done that.
Sometimes I am amazed, how bout this...put 20 top pros in that situation and I guarantee most of them say something like "Really I moved the 5" "Are you sure" "I honestly couldnt tell I was focused on the shot" and all that type of stuff. You wanna blame someone, blame the ref...blame the format of the Skins tourney...dont blame the player though because it has no representation on what type of man he is. In order to understand someone you need to put yourself in their position.
Here's a test...take $16k out of the bank and foul the way Earl did and see if you want your opponent with ball in hand...if you wouldnt then please dont pass judgment on a great player.
What does it say of Charlie to wanna get ball in hand to run the last 5 balls in that type of pressure situation on a foul that most pros go years without making? It was one of those things where I think the better sportsmanship is to not take ball in hand for moving a 5 ball while doing a super tough bridge after Charlie donked a ball and got lucky to have done that.
Sometimes I am amazed, how bout this...put 20 top pros in that situation and I guarantee most of them say something like "Really I moved the 5" "Are you sure" "I honestly couldnt tell I was focused on the shot" and all that type of stuff. You wanna blame someone, blame the ref...blame the format of the Skins tourney...dont blame the player though because it has no representation on what type of man he is. In order to understand someone you need to put yourself in their position.
Here's a test...take $16k out of the bank and foul the way Earl did and see if you want your opponent with ball in hand...if you wouldnt then please dont pass judgment on a great player.
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I tend to be the type that would and have called it myself when I've fouled when nobody else has seen it, AND I truly wish that I could say the same for the whole pool playing community.
However, on the other side of the coin, I've never heard of a defensive back running over to the ref at the end of a play and saying "hey man, I was all over that guy..................definitely pass interference on my part.".
Or a tennis player calling his/her own serve "out" when the official didn't see it.
dave
However, on the other side of the coin, I've never heard of a defensive back running over to the ref at the end of a play and saying "hey man, I was all over that guy..................definitely pass interference on my part.".
Or a tennis player calling his/her own serve "out" when the official didn't see it.
dave
Crooked Stick
Registered
You should call a foul on yourself if you committed one.......plain and simple. Earl is a turd and i wouldn`t expect anything else from him.
Tom,
I agree completely. That is the ref's jobs to make the call. Once a ref is asked to call a shot, the opposing player is suppose to return to his or her chair and await the outcome. In this case, the ref was out of sight of the shot (his mistake).
Having said that, Earl still should have called a foul on himself. My guess is in the heat of the moment, he forgot the match was televised. We were the beneficiaries of the replay. It has always been my feeling Earl could hardly care what you and me think about him. Some players and promoters will always adore him regardless of his antics!
Lyn
Foul!
I would have negated whatever the ref's call was and turned over ball in hand myself. Ya see, I can't sit in judgement of Earl, but I've still gotta get up tomorrow and face myself in the mirror. So if you wanna know what I personally would have done...lost 16,000 and kept my self respect because it's priceless. There's nothin' worth more than the man you have to face each day in the mirror.
I would have negated whatever the ref's call was and turned over ball in hand myself. Ya see, I can't sit in judgement of Earl, but I've still gotta get up tomorrow and face myself in the mirror. So if you wanna know what I personally would have done...lost 16,000 and kept my self respect because it's priceless. There's nothin' worth more than the man you have to face each day in the mirror.
Lyn,
Do you think Earl was just trying to get CW's goat a little? I don't think they are on each others Christmas card list.
Remember Earl getting resigned by the UPA (under CW's regime) when CW wouldn't pay out the winnings when Earl wanted to leave the venue and CW took it as his resignation? then sent Earl a letter saying the UPA accepted his resignation? and Earl couldn't play in any UPA sanctioned events?
Do you think Earl was just trying to get CW's goat a little? I don't think they are on each others Christmas card list.
Remember Earl getting resigned by the UPA (under CW's regime) when CW wouldn't pay out the winnings when Earl wanted to leave the venue and CW took it as his resignation? then sent Earl a letter saying the UPA accepted his resignation? and Earl couldn't play in any UPA sanctioned events?
Damn Tom.
I never looked at it from that point of view. Really interesting concept! Wouldn't put it past Earl. A little nose tweek eh?
Lyn
Strickland is unique, thankfully. (didn't he have a crack problem or something?)
Most pool players that I've seen and/or played are honest and intelligent people.
Most pool players that I've seen and/or played are honest and intelligent people.
Yes, and I can't think of any sport where that would happen, except snooker where you'll see players call fouls on themselves on the rare occasions where the referee hasn't seen it. It probably happens at least once a tournament, and they play for a lot more money than pool players do.