Stalling as an art form

[BillPorter]

I was watching two guys playing 9-ball yesterday; one of them played about my speed (C+ or B-) and one of them a road player in dead stall stroke. It had been a while since I had witnessed a game like this and I found it fascinating to observe how well the road player disguised his true speed. He never ran more than 3 or 4 balls, missed easy shots now and then, "accidentally" banked balls into pockets, and got really "lucky" by leaving tough shots when he missed. He was winning more than losing, but not by much. Now I really don't want to start a debate about the morality of hustling pool, and I'll admit that if the weaker player had been a close friend of mine I might have tried to tip him off in some way, but I just had to admire the level of skill involved in the road player's performance.

 

[Varney Cues]

Best I've seen was Ian Costello. He just looked like a young kid with no skill. Made lots of games with the C & under crowd before his true speed was known. Honorable mention goes to Jr...aka Doug Young.

 

[Blackjack]

I was watching two guys playing 9-ball yesterday; one of them played about my speed (C+ or B-) and one of them a road player in dead stall stroke. It had been a while since I had witnessed a game like this and I found it fascinating to observe how well the road player disguised his true speed. He never ran more than 3 or 4 balls, missed easy shots now and then, "accidentally" banked balls into pockets, and got really "lucky" by leaving tough shots when he missed. He was winning more than losing, but not by much. Now I really don't want to start a debate about the morality of hustling pool, and I'll admit that if the weaker player had been a close friend of mine I might have tried to tip him off in some way, but I just had to admire the level of skill involved in the road player's performance.

Bill,

It is definitely an art form. FWIW, it is wise to miss position more than you miss easy shots. If you choose to miss a shot, make sure its a tough rail shot - and always miss it on the sucker side. There is also a lot that you can do by "missing" your target on safeties, position, bank shots, etc, and if its done the right way, even the sharpest railbird will be betting against you in no time.

 

[Matt_24]

When I was working at a pool room in Nashville (I was about 18 at this time) a young Vietnamese kid started coming in. We had a large crowd of all races, but on certain nights a large group of Vietnamese guys came in and they had some very good players/gamblers among them. Anyhow, this kid comes in and starts at the bottom of the Vietnamese group....playing with a house stick and JUST good enough to win. Slowly he is working his way up. Heck, one night he told me he would play me if I gave him the 7 and "I" was tempted......he was that good. He just seemed so lucky.

One night it was dead, and he came in with a case and got a back table. I went back there, and he had a break cue and a fancy Schon cue - and was breaking/running out racks of 9 ball, playing like a CHAMPION. He saw me watching him and stuck his finger up to his lips and went, "SHHHHHH...". I just smiled.

He went on to beat just about everyone in the Vietnamese pool playing ladder and many others. Finally he wanted to play my friend Brian who was the best player in the room by a longshot - BUT - they played even. He approached him one night when I was off, and said he would play if Brian gave up the 7 and the breaks. I looked at Brian and said, "You don't have to win playing even." He looked at me and said, "Why did you say anything?". I told him that I had not knocked any of his action, but he wasn't going to hustle my friend.

I ended up taking him to a weekly JOB's bar table 9 ball tournament which he snapped off EASILY. He left soon afterwards and I never heard of or saw him again. He was a really great player.

 

[PoolSponge]

First let me start by agreeing that it is an art form. Now let me also say that it can be very easy for stalling to effect the stallers speed down the line. A local player who has since stopped playing due to life changes once was a fantastic staller and got many players playing on much less of a spot than would normally be required. That said, after a while when he finally roped in the "big money" games it was obvious that his top gear had slipped down a notch or two. Because he was to used to not running out consistantly and hadn't made true efforts at a number of shots including his break, when the time came to deliver the top class game, it wasn't there.

So in closing, while stalling is an artform, being able to also have that upper gear remain unaffected is but another piece of the artform that can easily be over looked. So to all aspiring stallers out there I would be very careful that you do not let that gear slide or the stall will be reversed on to you in the end.

 

[Snapshot9]

Yes

it is an Art form sometimes, and the stop for a second, puzzling looks that come afterward, that sends them away to think about it for a month or so.

And the lessor player thinks he 'weak points' are much less than they really are when someone that has edged out 5 sets in a row on them, like 7-5, 7-5,
7-6, 7-4, and 7-5 has just shown them every weak point in their game.

1 weak point in your game can lose you, thousands and thousands of dollars over time, just 1. It can be an execution or logic weak point, just as long as it is reliable (read consistent) to your opponent.

Case in point: The players that break, usually don't have a shot on the 1 ball, and push out to the very hardest place on the table. The opponent knows he, mostly likely, will not make the 1 ball, but he also knows the player that pushed out can not either, and that a good safety can not be played, so he simply turns the shot back, waiting for the originating player to sell out the 1 ball, so he can run the table.

If that one logic flaw can be relied upon, the opposing player will usually win given their skill sets are pretty close. Certain types of players display a propensity towards this type of logic flaw, like totally offensive minded players.

This is just one of the many many reasons why you should be able to evaluate a potential opponent's game accurately and realistically, as well as your own, especially before playing them.

 

[BillPorter]

another element of the stall

One thing I forgot to mention was how the road player handled the break. I had seen him playing another top player a few days before and noticed that he had a killer break, squatting the cue ball near the middle of the table on almost every break and almost always making a ball on a tough, shimmed 9 foot Gold Crown. While playing the weak player, he NEVER parked whitey in the middle of the table. He would routinely hit the one ball slightly off center and the cue ball would run around the table totally out of control.

 

[Flex]

One thing I forgot to mention was how the road player handled the break. I had seen him playing another top player a few days before and noticed that he had a killer break, squatting the cue ball near the middle of the table on almost every break and almost always making a ball on a tough, shimmed 9 foot Gold Crown. While playing the weak player, he NEVER parked whitey in the middle of the table. He would routinely hit the one ball slightly off center and the cue ball would run around the table totally out of control.

This has to be one of the hallmarks of an effective staller, losing control of whitey at the right moment. Another one is taking a tougher path to a runout, which more easily can be dismissed as a mental error, and not stalling.

Flex

 

[JoeyA]

Best I've seen was Ian Costello. He just looked like a young kid with no skill. Made lots of games with the C & under crowd before his true speed was known. Honorable mention goes to Jr...aka Doug Young.

Is that THE Doug from Mobile, Al?
JoeyA

 

[poolpro]

First let me start by agreeing that it is an art form. Now let me also say that it can be very easy for stalling to effect the stallers speed down the line. A local player who has since stopped playing due to life changes once was a fantastic staller and got many players playing on much less of a spot than would normally be required. That said, after a while when he finally roped in the "big money" games it was obvious that his top gear had slipped down a notch or two. Because he was to used to not running out consistantly and hadn't made true efforts at a number of shots including his break, when the time came to deliver the top class game, it wasn't there.

So in closing, while stalling is an artform, being able to also have that upper gear remain unaffected is but another piece of the artform that can easily be over looked. So to all aspiring stallers out there I would be very careful that you do not let that gear slide or the stall will be reversed on to you in the end.

Absolutely true!! I know firsthand what you are talking about. I used to do that pretty much on a daily basis to varying degress. Back then I always had the confidence that I could "turn it on" at will. Let me tell you it is a terrible feeling when you lay all the groundwork, set it up just right, and the moment to step it up arrives........ and nothing. I have taken small breaks from pool before and bounced back easily, but I took a longer break ( over a year and a half) and am still struggling with my game after playing for a few months.

It looks like I ended up hustling myself! Oh well, at least I got beat by a decent player (or used to be ).

 

[jrhendy]

First let me start by agreeing that it is an art form. Now let me also say that it can be very easy for stalling to effect the stallers speed down the line.

So in closing, while stalling is an artform, being able to also have that upper gear remain unaffected is but another piece of the artform that can easily be over looked. So to all aspiring stallers out there I would be very careful that you do not let that gear slide or the stall will be reversed on to you in the end.

I think any player who gambles with strangers has an automatic stall included in their game when they play. I was a terrible tournament player for years because I just couldn't play my top speed out of the gate. I am talking about playing 9 Ball, which I don't play much anymore, and while I never was a champion, I could hold my own with good players. I think a habit developed (stalling) that I couldn't get out of, and yes, sometimes you can't get off the stall at all. I got a call one night in the 60's that some rich kid was betting the rail at the pool room and going off big. I went down to the room and the "Rich Kid' was Ritchie Florence, playing a local bookmaker who would bet it up. Ritchie was probably the five out better than this guy and when I got there he had several hundred a game bet. The Bookie got out after Ritchie missed a fairly easy out (trying to come of the stall), then he made the 9 on the break, and then he broke and ran a few balls and had an easy combo on the nine. Ritchie had it set up perfectly but couldn't come off the stall when he needed to, and blew a few thousand. Everybody thought he was a sucker, but when he came back he got knocked (not me) and didn't get a chance to win back his money. John Henderson

 

[BillPorter]

First let me start by agreeing that it is an art form. Now let me also say that it can be very easy for stalling to effect the stallers speed down the line. A local player who has since stopped playing due to life changes once was a fantastic staller and got many players playing on much less of a spot than would normally be required. That said, after a while when he finally roped in the "big money" games it was obvious that his top gear had slipped down a notch or two. Because he was to used to not running out consistantly and hadn't made true efforts at a number of shots including his break, when the time came to deliver the top class game, it wasn't there.

So in closing, while stalling is an artform, being able to also have that upper gear remain unaffected is but another piece of the artform that can easily be over looked. So to all aspiring stallers out there I would be very careful that you do not let that gear slide or the stall will be reversed on to you in the end.

Nice post! I am thinking that one way to keep a stall from knocking out your higher gears is to try to control the OB and CB just as much as when you are playing your top game. In other words, you don't just miss position, but you play to miss position by putting the rock in an exact spot on the table. And you don't just miss a shot, you miss a shot by having the OB hit the rail at an exact spot. I think the road player I saw yesterday was doiing a lot of that, moving the balls with precision even though appearing to be inept.

 

[huckster]

Best I've seen was Ian Costello. He just looked like a young kid with no skill. Made lots of games with the C & under crowd before his true speed was known. Honorable mention goes to Jr...aka Doug Young.

Jack Cooney, Will Peay, Gary Abood, and Doug Young. I just talked with a kid the other day who played Doug some, and this kid is very solid Jr. National very high finisher, and he still thinks that Doug got lucky to beat him. All he kept saying is that guy jumps up every shot, and he will never be a champion. Doug got the cash and the kid is chomping at the bit to play him some more.

 

[Varney Cues]

Is that THE Doug from Mobile, Al?
JoeyA

I'm not sure of his original home...I was thinking Texas. He travels far & wide though so maybe. He looks like some young kid (early 20's but looks younger) who'd be more comfortable with a skateboard. Often his hair hangs down over one eye. I know he has had long stays in Atlanta & Charlotte.

 

[Varney Cues]

Jack Cooney, Will Peay, Gary Abood, and Doug Young. I just talked with a kid the other day who played Doug some, and this kid is very solid Jr. National very high finisher, and he still thinks that Doug got lucky to beat him. All he kept saying is that guy jumps up every shot, and he will never be a champion. Doug got the cash and the kid is chomping at the bit to play him some more.

Thats Doug indeed. I've seen him take off some real champs before. It took me slipping Mad Max on him in a long ahead set to get into his pockets. He beat everyone in Charlotte.

 

[JoeyA]

I have always admired the stealth of a good hustler, the way he grimmaces to himself, when he hits the ball too hard, barely misses the pocket and it goes to the other side of the table leaving his opponent "safe" alternately acting a bit surprised but slightly satisfied as to his good fortune in leaving his opponent safe.

The occasional getting out of line on shape, missing the two ball but leaving an easy shot on the two (knowing that when he misses his opponent can't run eight balls); believable because it doesn't happen too often. The opponent runs his usual 6 balls and misses the eight. The stealthy hustler jumps to the table like a banshee making the easy 8 but getting only mediocre shape on the 9 ball but alas, still pocketing the 9. When he is ahead and running away with the set because of his "luck", he makes the 7 ball going three rails with the cue ball and either scratches or gets snookered behind the 9 ball, forcing a kick in which he misses the 8 ball by mere inches giving the opponent cue in hand.

The reservation he shows in raising the bet even after winning the first set 9-7 only increases the smell of blood in the water (greed level in his opponent,) as the opponent "knows" this guy has a weakness for raising the bet.

The infrequent self-deprecation and mocking laments are a sight and sound to behold. It is acting at its best. Fortunately, I no longer choose to do any of these things.
JoeyA

 

[JoeyA]

I'm not sure of his original home...I was thinking Texas. He travels far & wide though so maybe. He looks like some young kid (early 20's but looks younger) who'd be more comfortable with a skateboard. Often his hair hangs down over one eye. I know he has had long stays in Atlanta & Charlotte.

Nah, that's not the same Doug. This one is old, heavy set, lots of children plays golf and occasionally a little one pocket. Can hardly play at all.
JoeyA

 

[dimes33]

I was watching two guys playing 9-ball yesterday; one of them played about my speed (C+ or B-) and one of them a road player in dead stall stroke. It had been a while since I had witnessed a game like this and I found it fascinating to observe how well the road player disguised his true speed. He never ran more than 3 or 4 balls, missed easy shots now and then, "accidentally" banked balls into pockets, and got really "lucky" by leaving tough shots when he missed. He was winning more than losing, but not by much. Now I really don't want to start a debate about the morality of hustling pool, and I'll admit that if the weaker player had been a close friend of mine I might have tried to tip him off in some way, but I just had to admire the level of skill involved in the road player's performance.

all of this will be correct assuming you knew the road player right? kinda hard to clock speed when you dont really know a player.about lil doug (aka jr.) who happened to be in the house last night puts it down so well because in reality hes just playing how he plays......jumpy,fast,slightly weird to watch but gets the job done.

 

[BillPorter]

all of this will be correct assuming you knew the road player right? kinda hard to clock speed when you dont really know a player.about lil doug (aka jr.) who happened to be in the house last night puts it down so well because in reality hes just playing how he plays......jumpy,fast,slightly weird to watch but gets the job done.

Yeah, I know the road player could give the other guy the five and it would be no contest. I don't want to use his name, but it would be recognized by many on this forum.

 

[Pushout]

Nah, that's not the same Doug. This one is old, heavy set, lots of children plays golf and occasionally a little one pocket. Can hardly play at all.
JoeyA

Ahhh.....Smorgie??