Stan Shuffet Challenge

[Colin Colenso]

To be perfectly fair to Gerry I know he doesn't use manual pivots. All his videos are using visual sweeps except this one. If my memory serves me correct this video was done in response to someone asking whether a different bridge distance was necessary for different shots. Gerry feels it doesn't but I do recall there being a graphic on the second DVD about bridge distances for manual pivot.

I think the general idea is to understand the manual pivot then move on to visual sweeps. Like Gerry, I find it a more natural movement, you're not moving your line after you are down on your shot and certainly you're not concerned with bridge distances.

So if you think you've found some "secret adjustment" I think you'll find it's just a quirk of Gerry's pivot. Since he really doesn't use manual pivots I'm not sure you want to build your case on his manual pivots. He's moving his head as well as his bridge when he pivots which is not what you want to do.

My bridge or head doesn't move when I pivot and neither does Stan's.

Look at the first 2 shots in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWUc1gm9gjI

So we can't assume Gerry is performing the manual pivot properly?

And Stan's video shows no noticeable pivot adjustment, but the shots he plays, I could reproduce easily making a guestimate of a visual and then pivoting purely. That's not a critique, because it wasn't his purpose in that video to prove no bridge adjustment. I'm just saying, that video doesn't disprove that some CTE proponents don't keep the bridge in a set position after original alignment.

I'm curious why CTE proponents rarely if ever pick up on their fellow enthusiasts erroneous application or claims.

 

[mista335]

I'm curious why CTE proponents rarely if ever pick up on their fellow enthusiasts erroneous application or claims.

Maybe because there isn't anybody else like you with the enthusiasm and zeal to apply all this forensic analysis on a few frames of video when you know you can shoot the shot yourself.

Anyway nice to see somebody else at home on a Saturday night.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Maybe because there isn't anybody else like you with the enthusiasm and zeal to apply all this forensic analysis on a few frames of video when you know you can shoot the shot yourself.

Anyway nice to see somebody else at home on a Saturday night.

Some truth to that for sure! And this whole discussion is not helping my viewing of family guy re-runs.

 

[Gerry Williams]

Are you accusing me of making erroneous claims?

So we can't assume Gerry is performing the manual pivot properly?

And Stan's video shows no noticeable pivot adjustment, but the shots he plays, I could reproduce easily making a guestimate of a visual and then pivoting purely. That's not a critique, because it wasn't his purpose in that video to prove no bridge adjustment. I'm just saying, that video doesn't disprove that some CTE proponents don't keep the bridge in a set position after original alignment.

I'm curious why CTE proponents rarely if ever pick up on their fellow enthusiasts erroneous application or claims.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Are you accusing me of making erroneous claims?

No, I've no idea of any claims you've made.

I'm accusing your second shot of having an erroneous visual or execution thereof.

I suspect you're intuitively adjusting and not aware of it. I'd never question your honesty.

Is that not reasonable, based on what has been presented?

 

[BeiberLvr]

I have tried it on the table & found it to have holes. Since I had seen that it works I attributed them to the fact that perhaps I was not performing it correctly.

I've been away from these forums for a year.

3 hours not 3 weeks.

It's certainly not the money but I lost some interest when seeing the 5 shots video.

It also made me question whether or not I wanted to invest the time & effort in what I & others perceive as a more complex method when what we are using is much more simple & works quite well.

You haven't even seen the DVDs so of course you're going to have problems with it.

In that year you could have purchased the DVD and actually made some effort in learning the system. Instead, here we are, back at square one.

You are correct.

Didn't mean to imply you couldn't afford to buy your own copy. Just stating the fact that if I believed you really wanted to learn, I'd offer my help.

Finally, if what you're doing works for you so well than why the F do you care so much about CTE? Stop wasting our time.

 

[Colin Colenso]

You haven't even seen the DVDs so of course you're going to have problems with it.

In that year you could have purchased the DVD and actually made some effort in learning the system. Instead, here we are, back at square one.

You are correct.

Didn't mean to imply you couldn't afford to buy your own copy. Just stating the fact that if I believed you really wanted to learn, I'd offer my help.

Finally, if what you're doing works for you so well than why the F do you care so much about CTE? Stop wasting our time.

Passive aggressive much? LOL

 

[BeiberLvr]

Passive aggressive much? LOL

Hey I said he was correct about something.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Hey I said he was correct about something.

Congrats, and duly added to my "occasional facts CTE proponents make" notepad file.

 

[8pack]

On top of that small adjussent, even a tiny (unnoticeable) difference in where we drop in (even with a manual pivot) will change the outcome of a shot. #subconsciousmiracles

Correct.


With any type of system, once your visuals give you the perception on where the pocket is , it starts trying to get you inline with the shot. The subconscious is at work before you know it. Some probably don't realize this. And your right , it doesn't take much adjusting to be on or off and add the subconscious to the equation.... bingo.

 

[Neil]

Hi Gerry,
Appreciate your friendly response!

On the second shot, a movement in your bridge is quite clear from my screen grabs. I'd estimate this movement to be beyond 1mm which I estimate equates to about a full pocket width undercutting from what you would have hit the OB to, had the bridge not moved.

I'm not suggesting you were aware of this, but that you intuitively adjusted during the pivot, as you turned your attention to the OB.

That's my guess based on what I can see and my experience of how my own brain works during alignment over the years. You may have a better explanation based on your knowledge of your technique and conscious decisions when using the method.

I should ask, if you think it is possible that you make intuitive adjustments during the pivot, or if you don't base your pivot on a fixed bridge V?

Colin, you are clutching at straws here. That is not an "intuitive" movement. That is a natural result that happens when your thumb is not planted on the table. The exact same thing happens on all pivots that you don't even realize. It happens in the web of the thumb, which is flexible and moves along with the cue. Happens on every single stroke that is not dead straight.

You are claiming that he is adjusting his aim. That is very far from the actual truth.

 

[Neil]

So we can't assume Gerry is performing the manual pivot properly?

And Stan's video shows no noticeable pivot adjustment, but the shots he plays, I could reproduce easily making a guestimate of a visual and then pivoting purely. That's not a critique, because it wasn't his purpose in that video to prove no bridge adjustment. I'm just saying, that video doesn't disprove that some CTE proponents don't keep the bridge in a set position after original alignment.

I'm curious why CTE proponents rarely if ever pick up on their fellow enthusiasts erroneous application or claims.

I'll say it again, since you are so convinced that you are right (which you aren't), go to Stan and take his challenge. You could make a bundle if you are right. But, you won't do that, because you know you are standing on a false premise. But, you have clearly shown your true intentions here. You aren't here to learn a thing, just nitpick and you do so making any false claim you feel like while accusing others of false claims.

 

[ENGLISH!]

You haven't even seen the DVDs so of course you're going to have problems with it. I did not read Cranefild's book on ghost ball & had no trouble with it. I did not see Jimmy Reed's fractional aiming video & had no trouble with that method. Hell at 13, I thought I had invented it. I had no real trouble using english to fill in the gaps, yet read no books nor saw no videos.

In that year you could have purchased the DVD and actually made some effort in learning the system. Instead, here we are, back at square one. The key word there is could but why should I if am not yet convinced that it would be better & especially since I'm competing. If it were a quick change perhaps I would but from what I'm hearing it takes quite some time & maybe even for some a special lesson from Stan or Stevie to actually get that Ah Ahh moment.

You are correct. Thank you for admitting your simple mistake.

Didn't mean to imply you couldn't afford to buy your own copy. Just stating the fact that if I believed you really wanted to learn, I'd offer my help. Thanks again, but Stan & others can't seem to explain the how never mind the why that 5 completely different angled shots are pocketed from the same visual. Until there is a legitimate answer to me the answer is subjectivity.

Finally, if what you're doing works for you so well than why the F do you care so much about CTE? Stop wasting our time.

First, thanks for civil post even it was a bit spiked. If we can keep it civil & respectful maybe we can continue to communicate but I doubt that that will happen.

Why do you ask questions in the instructor's forum?
Why don't you take Fran's advice regarding the elbow drop in a stroke?

To the second question, I'd say you are not 'sold' on it.

To the first question, like so many, I too am always looking for something that might be better than what I'm doing or if not better more simple, or more consistent, or simply another weapon.

I guess you missed the part where I lost some interest when it was basically said that so many shots (the 5 shots) can be made from the same visual. To me that puts the system in the realm of subjectivity. I do not mean that the edge & center are not objective visuals & I am not saying that the A & C points are not 'reasonably' visually obtainable.

I've been playing & am not interested at this point to make the investment in time to attempt to move to a whole different method. I took a break during part of the TOI try.

If I could 'see' that CTE is totally objective I am positive that I would take the time off from playing & give it a good go. I'm not sold there & there seems to be no explanation to prove that it is other than Stan saying that it is but not being able to explain why it is because it is a 3D dimensional visual system.

Well geometry & physics still govern in the 3D visual world.

I'm sorry for the small rant & I'm sorry if you & others don't like the answers to the questions that you ask.

You see, you pulled this out of me with your post, but I will not be pulled back into the foolishness of past times by others. I don't think you are quite in that realm but only time will tell & the answer could come as quickly your next post to me. That said, you have been disingenuous with me in the past.

Best Wishes to You & Success in Both Your Pool & Life's journey.
Rick

 

[Colin Colenso]

Colin, you are clutching at straws here. That is not an "intuitive" movement. That is a natural result that happens when your thumb is not planted on the table. The exact same thing happens on all pivots that you don't even realize. It happens in the web of the thumb, which is flexible and moves along with the cue. Happens on every single stroke that is not dead straight.

You are claiming that he is adjusting his aim. That is very far from the actual truth.

Simply laughable. Open your eyes and switch on your math brain if you have one!

Allowing one's bridge to open outward a mm or so changes the pocketing line substantially. Only a fool would argue that it doesn't, hence the deafening silence that has overcome this thread, apart from yourself.

 

[stan shuffett]

Simply laughable. Open your eyes and switch on your math brain if you have one!

Allowing one's bridge to open outward a mm or so changes the pocketing line substantially. Only a fool would argue that it doesn't, hence the deafening silence that has overcome this thread, apart from yourself.

What is laughable is your real knowledge about CTE PRO ONE.

You can not explain it or demonstrate it.

You have no understanding of its perceptual nature.

But yet you can dissect it??? What a joke!!

You are a left brainer that is threatened because you longer can be as important as you would like to be with your 2D misinformation.

Stan Shuffett

 

[Neil]

Simply laughable. Open your eyes and switch on your math brain if you have one!

Allowing one's bridge to open outward a mm or so changes the pocketing line substantially. Only a fool would argue that it doesn't, hence the deafening silence that has overcome this thread, apart from yourself.

Thanks for proving once again that you do not understand pivots at all. Also, noticed no apology for the "intuitive" nonsense. If you understood the CTE and 90/90 pivot in the least, you would know that that movement means absolutely nothing. It's not where you pivot from, it's all about where you pivot to.

 

[nobcitypool]

Colin, you should stick to back hand english. What are you trying to accomplish with your posting? It simply escapes me how people who don't understand how the system functions are so ready to dissect it with their "technical" analysis. If you don't care enough to actually learn the system, why do you care in the least to post all this crap? Honestly, it destroys your technical credibility completely.

If this is what you're all about, go back to drawing diagrams and dissecting BHE. I guarantee you I won't be critiquing you for that. I lack the technical acumen to do so but more importantly, I could care less. You people talk about Professionals not caring or thinking about aiming? I'll bet though they really take your BHE analysis to heart. LMAO! Next you should work on something really important, like analyzing the affect of chalk dust on draw as seen from a pocket angle. Or something like that. And look, I promise not to post on that and attempt to shoot holes in your theory.

 

[Colin Colenso]

What is laughable is your real knowledge about CTE PRO ONE.

You can not explain it or demonstrate it.

You have no understanding of its perceptual nature.

But yet you can dissect it??? What a joke!!

You are a left brainer that is threatened because you longer can be as important as you would like to be with your 2D misinformation.

Stan Shuffett

So moving the bridge during the pivot makes no difference Stan?

Perhaps you have a 3D way of explaining how a bridge shift doesn't affect the potting line?

Why not just admit that one stroke was not executed as per system recommendations? Instead of making a personal attack against someone who made the effort to show an inconsistency.

Are you saying bridge movement during the pivot is part of the system you recommend?

Colin

 

[8pack]

Thanks for proving once again that you do not understand pivots at all. Also, noticed no apology for the "intuitive" nonsense. If you understood the CTE and 90/90 pivot in the least, you would know that that movement means absolutely nothing. It's not where you pivot from, it's all about where you pivot to.

In 90/90 where you pivot from on the ob determines where you pivot to . The placement on the cb is always the same . Left or right side of cb. And bridge lenght matters from person to person....meaning longer bridges cut less.

 

[stan shuffett]

So moving the bridge during the pivot makes no difference Stan?

Perhaps you have a 3D way of explaining how a bridge shift doesn't affect the potting line?

Why not just admit that one stroke was not executed as per system recommendations? Instead of making a personal attack against someone who made the effort to show an inconsistency.

Are you saying bridge movement during the pivot is part of the system you recommend?

Colin

Real CTE is a visual system....the bridge follows perception.

Back up and learn CTE perception...

Then you CAN begin to understand bridge placement and the slight rotation that occurs to CCB.

Stan Shuffett