Stance.

jdsons said:
I did a search and was unable to find anything on stance.

Stance for me is a BIG struggle for two years. I have tried several and can not get confortable. I am open to any suggestions from ball bangers to pros. If this subject has been posted in depth, please post a link to the information.

If there are websits, videos, ect...that helped you and you think it could help me (others) let us know.

thanks for your time,
jdsons
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What is stance?? It's being balanced once you lay your bridge hand on the table, meaning, if I were to lift up your bridge hand your body doesn't want to fall forward, backwards, or to either side, I should also be able to push you from the side (not a body slam) and you would not fall over.
Try this, stand straight up, with your arms along your sides (your in balance), much like I would guess in the military when your at attention. Next, take any part of your body and extend it away from your body, you become immediately OUT of BALANCE, to get back in balance you must extend another opposing part of your body outward to offset your imbalance. So in pool, as you get down on the shot and bring forward weight towards the table, one must also offset that weight with body parts sticking out rearward, I hope this way of thinking will help and simplify your dilemma.
 
Thanks everyone.

Thanks for the reply everyone,

I have a lot to think about with the fundamentals of stance.

I have been evaluating my stance and why it has been an issue. I am beginning to think it is my aiming. I am right eye dominate (and right handed). I perfer the cue under my chin (snooker style) but physically can't get confortable with an open stance, and it inhibits my stroke. So, I try a more closed stance, and need to tilt my head, and see a different point of aim, so I move my shaft toward my left eye, to compensate. I like the way it losings up my stroke and I am able to run a few balls; however, my point of aim becomes a problem again. I than put the cue under my right eye, tilt head, run a few balls - eventually same problem.

I am just going to pick an athletic stance, cue position and stick with it. I just want to fundamentally correct, but I don't think there is one best way to do it. I have 25 years before I turn pro:D :D :D

jdsons
 

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jdsons said:
According to a friend, Kinister had an early DVD on stance. He can't remember which one it is. Can anyone help me???

jdsons
Bert covered the stance in one of his earlier tapes-- Fundamentals. He steps back but the way he explains it makes sense.
 
I've followed this thread a bit and I've been trying to 'step-into' my stance as mentioned above.

Lining my body with the center of the shot before stepping into the stance has (I belive) imrpoved my aiming and stroke. I had no idea how often I was forcing myself to stroke uncomfortably just because my stance was incorrect.
 
Stance ....

An instructor saying it isn't important, just be comfortable??? Since when does comfort guarantee excellent results? The main reasons people take it upon themselves to modify from the correct form and stance is:

1) They are shorter than normal, quite shorter.
2) They are extraordinarily tall.
3) The person has a physical handicap.
3) They are not in good physical shape, and usually badly out of shape, and overweight to the point that their body mass prevents them from maintaining the correct form.

The 4th one is correctable, the first 3 have to be dealt with. People have a tendency to want to be good, but they don't want to put out the effort it takes to be good. And that includes doing things away from the table as well as on the table. After all, it's just a game .... LOL (wish I had a dollar for everytime I have heard that).

People that say stance doesn't matter haven't played Pool sessions over 24 hours at a time. Stance and form do matter because Pool is a building block sport of knowledge and skill, just like any other sport. Think of it as a house you're building, and the stance and form is the foundation. How good is your house going to be if the foundation is just 'comfortable', but not aligned and structured properly? How long before that foundation starts to crack, and you start to have problems in the rooms upstairs (certain shots you never can make consistently)?

To achieve excellence in a sport, everything matters, every single thing.
Ask Daryl Peach, who won the WPC this year? If Daryl hadn't had the mental toughness he has, and answered Gomez's safeties back with excellent safeties of his own, Gomez would have won. I have played 46 years, and I was highly impressed with Daryl's mental toughness in the final match of the WPC.

Upon being exposed to Pool as a teenager, I knew I would love the sport, and I wanted to be good at it before ever picking up a cue. I was also smart enough to recognize that I needed information and training to get good at it. I studied Pool intensely for 6-7 months before ever picking up a cue, watching the best money players in town play, read 3 of the best books on Pool at the time, and other things. In otherwords, I set goals for myself before I ever started, and I took them seriously even though I had a lot of fun playing.

Hey Tommy, just get up and hit the ball, batting form doesn't matter.
Hey Spike, my defensive tackle, just get comfortable on the line however you can, but don't blame me if you get knocked on your butt.

Yes, form and stance matter ..... Why, because it sets the stage for your stroke. Most 'stroke problems' are a result of 'improper' stance and form.
Like the guys that put too much weight on their front foot, and end up looking down over their stick and shot and not through it, and they never can figure out why those high right long english shots are never consistent for them. What do you think a Hustler does when he sizes up competition in a strange city, form and stance is the first thing he looks at. That tells him whether a player will be prone to making certain mistakes on a certain type of shot or not, and whether the player will breakdown over time.
 
The other day I tried putting my upper body more over the cue with a wider foot-stance (more front/back instead of side/side) and got RIGHT down on top of the shaft with my chin... I was deadly accurate after that. Might want to give that a shot. I find just trying different things while practicing alone helps a lot. Just imagine yourself shooting from a 3rd person perspective.
 
stance unimportant

Stance-unimportant ---AIMING-LIKE HAL HOULE--- JUST WACK IT---goggle hal houle he's in there. mark
 
Surprised I haven't been arrested or ... molested

:eek: Depending on the shot and the cue ball being up close on the rail, I have noticed I occasionally end up in a Larry Craig stance with feet wide apart trying to get low on the table. I have even occasionally bumped feet withthe player standing behind me. OMG!:eek: Does this mean I gay?????:eek:

Actually that stupid stance is when I end up buried on the end rail close to the wall with little room between me the other player and the wall. When someone says something about it, I apologize and tell them, Sorry, I just have a really w-i-d-e stance.:D
 
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Here's what we teach about stance in pool school:

Your stance should be comfortable, balanced, and a tripod, allowing free movement of the cuestick. Your eyes should be positioned over the cue such that what you perceive is a straight line. Pretty simple and straightforward. There is no one stance that is right for everyone.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

jdsons said:
Good point,

That has been part of my struggle. textbook verses "what feels good." I alway thought textbook was the best, I have been wrong in the past.

jdsons.
 
Scott Lee said:
Here's what we teach about stance in pool school:

Your stance should be comfortable, balanced, and a tripod, allowing free movement of the cuestick. Your eyes should be positioned over the cue such that what you perceive is a straight line. Pretty simple and straightforward. There is no one stance that is right for everyone.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott I know what tripod means, but when you say that word on the forum, do you think the beginning players understand how that word is incorporated into their game? You can't knock over a three legged chair thats for sure.
 
For those that don't understand the concept of tripod: Your weight should be pretty evenly balanced between both feet, with some measure of weight on your bridge hand (creating the 'tripod'). My recommendation is about 45%/45%/10%. That's enough to allow for a solid bridge (but not too much, which gives you shoulder and neck pain), and creates a 'forward throwing' stance for your stroke. Of course, if you're 300-400 lbs. 10% may be too much weight on your bridge hand. :D Like all throwing sports, you can't stand with your weight on your back foot, and stroke the CB very accurately.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Island Drive said:
Scott I know what tripod means, but when you say that word on the forum, do you think the beginning players understand how that word is incorporated into their game? You can't knock over a three legged chair thats for sure.
 
Scott Lee said:
For those that don't understand the concept of tripod: Your weight should be pretty evenly balanced between both feet, with some measure of weight on your bridge hand (creating the 'tripod'). My recommendation is about 45%/45%/10%. That's enough to allow for a solid bridge (but not too much, which gives you shoulder and neck pain), and creates a 'forward throwing' stance for your stroke. Of course, if you're 300-400 lbs. 10% may be too much weight on your bridge hand. :D Like all throwing sports, you can't stand with your weight on your back foot, and stroke the CB very accurately.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott for years I've used the three legged tripod/chair expression to get students to understand and conceptualize stability, but I've always taught the "third element" meaning the tripod was actually your torso weight, with the hand laying on the table like an octupus on a Red Wings ice rink.
 
Stance

Let me first say that Scott Lee thinks he and I differ more on stance than we really do. Although my approach may sound more rigid, I do make some minor backend adjustments, but prefer to do it in person so I can see who I am dealing with.

And more weight is on the back leg because it is supposed to be locked and the front leg is slightly bent. You can support your weight longer with your skeletal frame than you can with your leg muscles, therefore reducing fatigue over long periods of time.

Granted, what I learned was from the best Pool books during the early 60's.

It stated a 60-40 rule, but about 2-5% of pressure normally on your bridge hand. 10%, I believe, is too much, for example, I weigh 160 lbs, and 10% would be 16 pounds of pressure, and would cause me to be overly front loaded, and not able to sight properly, and would have to be higher on my cue, looking down over it, with too much emphasis on the front end, which would throw certain shots off. 16 lbs of pressure is a lot, considering most of the time you just rest your bridge hand on the cloth.

Now, this is just my own personal analogy, so take it for what is worth, but
about the easiest transition for going into a Pool stance, I think, is from a standing Rifle position, and taking your rifle (cue) down into a Pool stance over a table of some kind. Bend at the waist, keep your back straight, and be at a 45 degree angle to your cue, so that you maintain straight lines with body, and your chin falls right over your cue.

A snooker stance is not at a 45 degree angle, but beside your cue, and you have to bend your upper body shoulders and neck to get your chin and eyes over the cue. This will play hell with your body over time, since you are not maintaining straight lines with your skeleton, and contort muscles, which results in body pain, or worse. One of the reasons Allison has such pain in her shoulders and neck.

Take my example of a standing rifle position, would you fire a rifle standing with both legs even? No, you wouldn't, and really a Snooker stance is reducing a tri-pod stance down to 2 actual points. You ask what is the big deal, but consider this. If you had an ear infection that throws balance off, could you maintain yourself better with a 2 pod stance or a tri-pod stance? Well, I know, and the answer is a tri-pod stance although not easy in that condition.

In a standing rifle postion, more weight is on the back leg than the front, and Pool is not a throwing sport, but a stroking one, but the principal is the same, although the difference between the back and front legs is narrowed some.
 
Scott...I'm not trying to be confrontational, but...No...we pretty much disagree on everything you posted here! Try standing with more weight on your back foot then your front foot (in a somewhat sideways stance like pool), and throw ANYTHING...or swing any kind of club/stick/bat/racquet etc. It just doesn't work accurately. Your weight may begin on the back foot, but it is definitely not there in the execution and/or followthrough/release. In pool, like other forward throwing sports, the weight needs to be mostly equal, but a little bit forward. Basketball is one exception where you are dead equal...but shooting (especially jumpshots) is initiated from the toes, which means you are somewhat forward.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Snapshot9 said:
Let me first say that Scott Lee thinks he and I differ more on stance than we really do.
 
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