State Associations of Pool Players

[336Robin]

I've thought that it would be cool to have State Associations of Pool Players for all the States that wanted to get involved in it. It would be open to all players wanting to be members.

How could it work? What could they do? How would it benefit Pool? Inquiring Minds want to know!!!!
Fire Away!

 

[West Point 1987]

What would a State Association do? Who would run it? How would the funds be used? Would there be a National Association to feed into?

What would be nice would be a National Governing Body (BCA could be a starting point) that is NOT run by players but has player reps. This body would designate the top 100 players as "pro tour players" complete with player cards, fees and automatic spots in the designated pro stops (TBD, but think U.S. Open, Tunica, SBE, DCC, etc.). Then designate 5 regional tours (like Tiger, APT, Joss, etc.) as "farm tours". At the end of each season, the bottom 25 pros are "relegated" back to farm status and the top 5 players from each regional tour are invited to join the pro tour for the next season. You could allow the Pro Tour to hold 10 at large spots for Hall of Famers or other players the Governing Body deem would promote pool by playing on the tour, but couldn't qualify. It's all there, somebody just needs to put the pieces together.

 

[doitforthegame]

Yes. More people controlling an individuals life. And another class of "elites" to tell you what you can and cannot do. What tournaments you can play in. Etc, etc. That's just what we need. (hasn't this already been tried in various forms?)

Bob

 

[336Robin]

Well its an idea

What would a State Association do? Who would run it? How would the funds be used? Would there be a National Association to feed into?

What would be nice would be a National Governing Body (BCA could be a starting point) that is NOT run by players but has player reps. This body would designate the top 100 players as "pro tour players" complete with player cards, fees and automatic spots in the designated pro stops (TBD, but think U.S. Open, Tunica, SBE, DCC, etc.). Then designate 5 regional tours (like Tiger, APT, Joss, etc.) as "farm tours". At the end of each season, the bottom 25 pros are "relegated" back to farm status and the top 5 players from each regional tour are invited to join the pro tour for the next season. You could allow the Pro Tour to hold 10 at large spots for Hall of Famers or other players the Governing Body deem would promote pool by playing on the tour, but couldn't qualify. It's all there, somebody just needs to put the pieces together.

WestPoint,

Well I think if you hit ground running with tons of cash and able to tell people what to do then maybe what you are saying would be feasible.

I was thinking more along the lines of a start up organization. What would make people want to be a part of it before we took off in other directions. Id be more concerned myself with what could be done for Amateur Pool than Pro Pool at the moment. Sort of like you cant do anything without some support was what I was thinking.

Pool in my state is falling off so I think I would be more inclined to focus on membership and creation of new players instead of a Pro Pool Point System.

So what would cause you to want to be a member where you got together with other members to play, talk, meet and discuss what could be done to help Pool?

 

[SKUNKBOY]

There already exists many State level organizations throughout the US. Most are affiliated with one of the National Organizations...BCAPL, ACS, VNEA, etc and most have a State level Tournament for the affiliated Leagues.

I believe Iowa has the only Independent State Level Association...not affiliated with any National Association. We allow any organized League to join our Association. We put on an Annual State Level Pool Tournament for our players. I believe we host the largest State Level Pool Tournament in the US...or at least we did.

It takes a lot to get started but it can be done. We started with half dozen guys that wanted an alternative to the existing State Tournament that was in Iowa. These guys got hooked up with the BCA in the beginning for some guidance, put up thier own money and never looked back.

The ISPA is Non Profit, only some of the Officers (that require some skill such as Secretary and Treasurer) get paid...and that's only a nominal fee for thier time. The ISPA offers is League Membership a free web site to keep scores and report info to the main offices for thier players.

We are coming up on our 20th year and we will be looking at nearly 3000 players at our Tournament. It was and is a lot of work.

If you would like to have a State Level Organization, I would suggest starting with one of the National Organizations. They would show you the 'ropes' and get you started. If you can make it 5 years with them and show growth, maybe you could try the Independent route and get other leagues involved.

Good luck...Ken

 

[336Robin]

State Level Org

There already exists many State level organizations throughout the US. Most are affiliated with one of the National Organizations...BCAPL, ACS, VNEA, etc and most have a State level Tournament for the affiliated Leagues.

I believe Iowa has the only Independent State Level Association...not affiliated with any National Association. We allow any organized League to join our Association. We put on an Annual State Level Pool Tournament for our players. I believe we host the largest State Level Pool Tournament in the US...or at least we did.

It takes a lot to get started but it can be done. We started with half dozen guys that wanted an alternative to the existing State Tournament that was in Iowa. These guys got hooked up with the BCA in the beginning for some guidance, put up thier own money and never looked back.

The ISPA is Non Profit, only some of the Officers (that require some skill such as Secretary and Treasurer) get paid...and that's only a nominal fee for thier time. The ISPA offers is League Membership a free web site to keep scores and report info to the main offices for thier players.

We are coming up on our 20th year and we will be looking at nearly 3000 players at our Tournament. It was and is a lot of work.

If you would like to have a State Level Organization, I would suggest starting with one of the National Organizations. They would show you the 'ropes' and get you started. If you can make it 5 years with them and show growth, maybe you could try the Independent route and get other leagues involved.

Good luck...Ken

Thanks Ken,
You know Im not so sure I want to get so in depth. I used to belong to Chess Clubs and it was more like we would get together and play. This built a comradarie and we always looked forward to our meetings each week and no one came every week. It became a very large group of people who attended occasionally.

I would like to see some things of higher purpose come out of it, were it to happen. Pool could use some help in my area and no one seems to want to do anything so I guess anything would help some but those are some great ideas....thanks. Maybe several area organizations, then a state organization.

 

[Mr. Bond]

Ironically state associations were once the standard.
And there was an intact amateur association to provide the means for players to legitimately work their way up to pro status. It seems silly that this is not the way its done today because it makes the most sense.

 

[336Robin]

Really?

Ironically state associations were once the standard.
And there was an intact amateur association to provide the means for players to legitimately work their way up to pro status. It seems silly that this is not the way its done today because it makes the most sense.

Mr. Bond,
That's interesting sure enough. Yes I agree it does make a lot of sense to me as well. If I were a young player and I sort of worked my way through the players in the Amateur organizations I would figure I was ready go forward with it. I agree it makes too much sense.

Were I to do anything like that, I guarantee there would be an easy way to do it. I'm not getting involved in something so complicated that no one wants to run it. Sort of keep it simple stupid is the way I live my life.

Thanks.

 

[bdorman]

The only purpose I can see (and IMHO it's a biggy) is to organize and run a statewide tournament. The advantage is that it's a lot easier for players to get to an in-state location rather than travel half way across the country.

For most states the tournament location would be within driving distance (CA, TX and AK excepted).

The problem is organizational overreach: Form an organization to perform one task, and next thing you know it's expanding its purpose and becomes a bureaucracy that drives everyone nuts with its politics and in-fighting.

 

[hang-the-9]

I've thought that it would be cool to have State Associations of Pool Players for all the States that wanted to get involved in it. It would be open to all players wanting to be members.

How could it work? What could they do? How would it benefit Pool? Inquiring Minds want to know!!!!
Fire Away!

So we can all be SAPPs?

 

[336Robin]

Sapps

So we can all be SAPPs?

Hang9,

Yeah State Association of Pool Players...NC,SC,VA etc.

any other suggestions?

 

[hang-the-9]

Hang9,

Yeah State Association of Pool Players...NC,SC,VA etc.

any other suggestions?

Ahrm..

1. sap

Sad And Pathetic
You are a SAP

2. sap

A fool; someone who is prone to being taken advantage of, or who has been taken advantage of, usually in a situation that is easily perceived by others as foolhardy.
This is the third time Joe bought vanishing cream off the internet; what a sap!


.. I don't want to be a SAPP!

 

[Mr. Bond]

The IL state association was formed in Aug of 1919 with instantly over 100 members, and it wasnt actually the first one. Several other states did it first, Arkansas was one of them. By the time IL joined in the ranks there were about 6 states involved if I'm not mistaken. Michigan followed suit shortly thereafter.

The associations (primarily made up of, but not only, room owners) were formed for several reasons. To have a membership body which could speak up on behalf of the room owners when it came to laws and legislation, to prevent the manufacturers (ie Brunswick) from dictating who could and couldnt participate at the pro level, to keep the reputation of pool and billiards out of the gutter by discouraging open and blatent public gambling, and of course to promote the game in a structured way, as opposed to willy-nilly tournaments and championships here and there that didnt amount to much.

Unlike today, as I mentioned before, there was a known structure that players were able to adhere to, to earn their status as a pro. This was beneficial to the rooms, players and fans alike because they all knew what to expect, and they all understood what it took to become a pro. Because of this, the word "pro" actually meant something and was a title to be proud of.

 

[336Robin]

Quiet Interesting

View attachment 295177

The IL state association was formed in Aug of 1919 with instantly over 100 members, and it wasnt actually the first one. Several other states did it first, Arkansas was one of them. By the time IL joined in the ranks there were about 6 states involved if I'm not mistaken. Michigan followed suit shortly thereafter.

The associations (primarily made up of, but not only, room owners) were formed for several reasons. To have a membership body which could speak up on behalf of the room owners when it came to laws and legislation, to prevent the manufacturers (ie Brunswick) from dictating who could and couldnt participate at the pro level, to keep the reputation of pool and billiards out of the gutter by discouraging open and blatent public gambling, and of course to promote the game in a structured way, as opposed to willy-nilly tournaments and championships here and there that didnt amount to much.

Unlike today, as I mentioned before, there was a known structure that players were able to adhere to, to earn their status as a pro. This was beneficial to the rooms, players and fans alike because they all knew what to expect, and they all understood what it took to become a pro. Because of this, the word "pro" actually meant something and was a title to be proud of.

Mr. Bond,
All of this is quite interesting. I cant help but wonder why it slipped to way side...at least in my state as I assume other states have them. It makes me wonder how pool is faring in states with strong associations....Anyone?

 

[fathomblue]

We have the Arkansas Pool Players' Association in this state that's celebrating it's 30th year of existence. The 2013-2014 season Kickoff tourney is actually tomorrow at Beezer's in Russellville, AR.

This will be my 3rd year as a member.

The first year I just got my feet wet, as I had taken 15 years off from the game and had never played by any BCA-type rules.....ever. We had about 225 members state-wide and about 10 satellite locations at that time.

The second year, I joined the league board as a "Board Member-At Large". Our participation dropped to around 175 or so. Lost a satellite location or 2. Most people tell me that it's the economy, tough to budget for the travel that it requires, or that simply other things such as family, etc. got in the way. I've also been told that it goes in cycles.

Due to an officer stepping aside, I am now the Vice President of the APPA, as I enter my 3rd season. We've made some format and handicap changes, not to mention added some variety with more 10B, plus some Banks, 1P, and Scotch Doubles.

I'm a bit nervous, but excited, for the new season. It technically started about 3 weeks ago at local satellites, so players buying memberships and such, would be out of the way, in an effort to save time.....instead of everyone trying to join at once tomorrow.

As is, my goal is 250-300 state members, as a starting point. Our Kickoff entries won't be nearly that many, but I'm hoping we have a good day, nonetheless.

Our state's problem is geography. Personally, I'm smack dab in the middle of 4 different satellites. They are all an hour.....to an hour and 15 minutes away.....one way. I'm dedicated enough to hit 2 of them regularly and the other 2 when my schedule permits. I'll hit another 2 or so, maybe a couple of times each for money added events.....as the season progresses.

But, I'm a diehard pool junkie. Some people won't drive to a tourney if it's more than 20 minutes away.

Being rural with a depressed economy is a killer here.

 

[336Robin]

Appa

We have the Arkansas Pool Players' Association in this state that's celebrating it's 30th year of existence. The 2013-2014 season Kickoff tourney is actually tomorrow at Beezer's in Russellville, AR.

This will be my 3rd year as a member.

The first year I just got my feet wet, as I had taken 15 years off from the game and had never played by any BCA-type rules.....ever. We had about 225 members state-wide and about 10 satellite locations at that time.

The second year, I joined the league board as a "Board Member-At Large". Our participation dropped to around 175 or so. Lost a satellite location or 2. Most people tell me that it's the economy, tough to budget for the travel that it requires, or that simply other things such as family, etc. got in the way. I've also been told that it goes in cycles.

Due to an officer stepping aside, I am now the Vice President of the APPA, as I enter my 3rd season. We've made some format and handicap changes, not to mention added some variety with more 10B, plus some Banks, 1P, and Scotch Doubles.

I'm a bit nervous, but excited, for the new season. It technically started about 3 weeks ago at local satellites, so players buying memberships and such, would be out of the way, in an effort to save time.....instead of everyone trying to join at once tomorrow.

As is, my goal is 250-300 state members, as a starting point. Our Kickoff entries won't be nearly that many, but I'm hoping we have a good day, nonetheless.

Our state's problem is geography. Personally, I'm smack dab in the middle of 4 different satellites. They are all an hour.....to an hour and 15 minutes away.....one way. I'm dedicated enough to hit 2 of them regularly and the other 2 when my schedule permits. I'll hit another 2 or so, maybe a couple of times each for money added events.....as the season progresses.

But, I'm a diehard pool junkie. Some people won't drive to a tourney if it's more than 20 minutes away.

Being rural with a depressed economy is a killer here.

Justin,
Just from what I am reading this is exactly what North Carolina needs. We have some players but mostly in the larger towns. What I see is that we have a few rooms with Pool Specials but no one playing them largely because they don't know about them..sounds crazy but that is the way it is. There is no communication between the Rooms and nothing to polarize the players together on much of anything except a few mid week and weekend small tournaments.

We have a little Action but its not much. The most pleasure I get out of playing is a Friday and Sunday game that I've been playing during a pool special Weve played 9 ball so long that we are going into other games. Ive also got a friend 45 minutes away and he and I go places to play One Pocket.

What you are doing from the way it sounds is way above what my imagination can muster at this point. I used to play chess and we would meet at a specific time and play each week and that is the way I envision things happening.

I see Pool Clubs like Chess Clubs getting together and people playing the different disciplines and hopefully from time to time the Pool Clubs playing each other in those disciplines and not so much Open Tournaments.

Open Tournaments are good but its puts people out late at night and some people just don't want to be out late at night and lets face it the Pool crowd is getting older so I think we could benefit from the Club Concept. It might just catch on with the youth as well.

We might be a ways from the Private Billiard Club Concept but within Sports Bars I think Pool Clubs and eventually some sort of Association put together in which to manage the competition would greatly help this area.

Right now Amateur Players are grossly mismanaged and when you go somewhere unless you're going to Greensboro you never know if you will see someone to play.

Its not funny a friend of mine saw this thread and texted me and he said we had talked about this sort of thing before and I knew we had but I guess I was having trouble grasping what he was saying. I heard him understood him but I've never seen anything like an Association and what it actually does in reality so it was like speaking Greek to me.

No speaka da Greekish. Now I know why pool is so broken in this area and falling apart absolutely no organization what so ever.