***STICKY? "The Final Rule" Ivory***

[Bavafongoul]

Brandon.....you are okay transporting your cues anywhere within the USA.
Possession of ivory is not a crime and so your cues cannot be confiscated.
It is the offer of selling or buying that ivory that presents the criminal offense.

As far as using ivory, if you have legal ivory with supporting evidence of how
you acquired it, and you furnish that ivory to a cue-maker to use building you
a cue, that is legal since there is no transfer of ownership of the ivory. It is
owned by you and the cue-maker did not buy it since you provided it for free.

The problem is the cue-maker now inherits the nuisance and risks associated
with building a cue with ivory and selling it. It means that the cue-maker has to
document and substantiate how he acquired that ivory and that he never sold
or charged for the ivory except ofr his labor to mill and install the ivory in the cue.

A lot of cue-makers will think it's just not worth the risk and nuisance of doing that
and may be inclined to pass up that arrangement and just build the cue using other
material to substitute for ivory to avoid the potential of any problems building the cue.

 

[CollCues]

In California... Also Illegal to gift, have with intent to sell, and have where previous sales have occurred.

 

[runscott]

Re-reading the information I previously quoted in this post, I'm a bit confused by it and so I've removed it.

 

[jay helfert]

Did I just get lucky, buying a 50 year old Gina? Seller was in Washington and I live in California. You can figure out the rest.

 

[runscott]

I get it - you were being clever.

 

[Rtoron]

What about trading cues with Ivory across state lines wheras no money changes hands?

 

[Bavafongoul]

One More Time.......Just Read, Learn & Comply Or Get Caught.

Trying to be clever, like swapping cues, will only get you in trouble if one of the parties lives in any
state that has enacted an ivory ban. Barter is selling since ownership changes hands.....the fact that
no money is exchanged is a moot point. If you do business with anyone that lives in a state that has
enacted an ivory ban, or if you reside in one of those states, you are screwed....plain and simple.

You must transact all business, including any advertising, from the inception of the sale or any efforts
to purchase the cue right down to the finalization and acceptance of the actual cue outside the
physical geography of the states involved for both the buyer and seller if either of those two states
have any ivory restrictions enacted.......you need to just adhere to the law and stop trying to figure out
how to get around it......you can't barter, you can't gift, you can't offer for sale or offer to buy a pool cue
if it contains ivory unless the pool cue has a CITES certificate attached when either the buyer or
seller lives in one of the affected states........NUF CED.....there are no loopholes folks.......if you get
caught, don't come back on the Forum crying crocidile tears or protesting it is not right...Just own it.


Matt B.

 

[runscott]

If it is across state lines, federal laws take precedent. State laws only apply to intrastate activity.

 

[runscott]

I quoted some information earlier from a site by 'Fitz Gibbon Law,LLC'. There were some inconsistencies, so I removed it.

I'm as confused as anyone else.

 

[Floyd_M]

I'm not an Ivoryologist.
What if...
"I found this cue stick in the garbage... "

.

 

[derblur]

Glad I do not live in a state with ivory bans...

 

[derblur]

Interesting...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...lled-5-000-elephants-totally-unrepentant.html

 

[scdiveteam]

Can someone make a "sticky" or pinned post at the top regarding "The Final Rule" about Ivory?

I'm getting a lot of calls and messages regarding it and I'm sure it would help others sell legally here on AZBilliards. ***I am not a lawyer so please take the time to read the link yourself***

From what I and a few others have taken from the documentation not a whole lot changes IF the cue was made before 7/7/16. THIS IS ONLY IF NOT SELLING/SHIPPING TO CA WA NJ NY. Ivory can't be sold and or shipped to and from those states or even within those 4 states if I read it all correctly.

If made after 7/6/16 it's technically illegal to ship or sell to anyone other than a resident of your state IF NOT IN CA WA NJ NY.

There's a few other considerations like the item can not be more than 200 grams of Ivory (7 some ounces) and the ivory's value can't be more than 50% of the item sold. So it can't be a large piece of Ivory with a booger on it for sale. An Ivory handle cue is most likely going to be cored and even if it had an Ivory butt cap and joint I'm not sure it would be that much Ivory by weight.


ADDED NOTE: I believe Hawaii has been added to the list of not to sell within or to with items containing ivory. 1/23/2017


Below is the link in PDF from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service regarding "The Final Rule".

https://www.fws.gov/international/pdf/questions-and-answers-african-elephant-4d-final-rule.pdf


Thank you,

Bill Lister
Cell/text- 239.823.0408
PayPal- Billiardbills@gmail.com
www.billiardbills.com
www.facebook.com/billiardbills

Shouldn't Nevada be included on that list??

 

[WilleeCue]

Avoid all the mess ... dont use Ivory. The only reason I can see people wanting it in their cue is because the old cue masters put it in their cues and now their cues are worth a lot of money. Not because of the ivory ... but because of the cue maker. As far as the material goes there are much better choices than Ivory today. Ever see Ivory in a museum? Ever see a piece there that wasn't cracked? Back when ... Ivory had qualities that made it logical for cues ... today that is not the case and IMHO you are using an inferior product if you have it in your cue. Bragging rights to your friends are about the only valid reason for Ivory in a cue today.