Stiff shafts & small tips...

[Bob Callahan]

I can't wait for the lewd replies to this one!

But, seriously, in snooker, where accuracy is very important, the game is usually played with very small tips and stiff shafts. In carom, where lots of controlled English is very important, it's small tips and very stiff shafts.

So...in pocket pool, where accuracy is important for making balls, and spin is important for shape, why isn't it small tips and stiff shafts?



P.S.: My shaft is stiff...and my tip is small--but not as small as the typical snooker player's....

 

[maestro de pool]

Small tip stiff shaft

I can't wait for the lewd replies to this one!

But, seriously, in snooker, where accuracy is very important, the game is usually played with very small tips and stiff shafts. In carom, where lots of controlled English is very important, it's small tips and very stiff shafts.

So...in pocket pool, where accuracy is important for making balls, and spin is important for shape, why isn't it small tips and stiff shafts?



P.S.: My shaft is stiff...and my tip is small--but not as small as the typical snooker player's....

Actually look closely players from U.K. see the cues and the way they bend over the shots thats why they play better than us players

 

[Bob Callahan]

---

Hey! Welcome to AZ. It's a privilege to have started the thread where you made your first post.

 

[Ratta]

Earlier all of the shafts were 13.00 to 13.25 mm . But it changed. So i couldn t aggree with your posting.
If you watch out now, you will see that there is a very high number of players shooting from 11.75 to 12.75 -
This is not that *thick* if you see the masse of snooker balls and pool balls. The snooker balls are much smaller than the pool-balls-and now look at the pool-balls. And then the tip/ferrule sizes. think both are most equal now (if you compare ball-tip size for both).

The stiffness is another theme. And in snooker there is not that many times you re using english-especially on longer shots you won t see players using english. So they try to not to fight with squirt etc.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Bob Callahan:
in pocket pool, where accuracy is important for making balls, and spin is important for shape, why isn't it small tips and stiff shafts?

I think it's just custom and habit - and it's changing.

pj
chgo

 

[Tramp Steamer]

I think the dimensions of a snooker cue has more to do with the size of the table the game is played on and the sizes of the balls.
I could be wrong on this, but I've only been wrong one time before, and then I only thought I was wrong.

 

[Maniac]

Post deleted. Mis-read the title . Damn, I gotta get me some stronger reading glasses :sorry:!!!

Maniac

 

[Bob Jewett]

... If you watch out now, you will see that there is a very high number of players shooting from 11.75 to 12.75 -
This is not that *thick* if you see the masse of snooker balls and pool balls. The snooker balls are much smaller than the pool-balls-and now look at the pool-balls. And then the tip/ferrule sizes. think both are most equal now (if you compare ball-tip size for both). ...

I think it's reasonable to expect the "best" shaft diameter to somehow match the size of the ball, but that's not what we see. I think 10mm is typical for snooker tips, and 12mm for carom tips (roughly). Those two are nearly in the same proportion as the diameters of the balls used in those games. If pool tips followed the same proportion, they would be about 11mm. (52.4mm, 57.1mm and 61.5mm for ball diameters)

I think far more important than the diameter of the tip is the amount of squirt the shaft has. That consideration seems to have changed pool cues a lot more than the others in the past 10 years, and squirt-reducing technology tends to remove any direct connection between tip and ball diameter.

If there is a "best" tip diameter for each ball size, it is sure to depend at least partly on the masses involved rather than the diameters, which implies that a simple ratio of diameters is not the whole story.

 

[Petros Andrikop]

Most important reason for pool usually played with thicker shafts is the elevation of the cue that is very often needed to perform several shots.

This is a fact that cannot be avoided due to the position of the balls at the table and leads to increased danger of of squirt overuse (thus missing the target) since 3rd axis effect takes place.

In simple words, many times the layout does allow you to keep your cue parallel and deliver a straight stroke parallel to the playing surface. A thicker tip diameter prevents the cueball from doing too much, along with the proper speed inolved in the hit (that "medium" one, not too soft..)

Besides, more important is to get the proper angle each time you position the cueball for the next shot so you don't have to use excessive spin and "force" the object ball into the pocket which usually leads to miss.

Smaller tip diameters in Pool appeared mainly in Europe first, World champion Oliver Ortmann being among the first to apply them, influencing a lot of players towards this direction. They have their advantages but you have to be more precice in each shot, and generally practice more in order to achieve constant results in long shots.

Two final things which are very important for young players to remember are:

1. Thicker shafts usually apply more deflection and less squirt. Vice versa for thinner ones. This is not absolute since other material factors of the cue play their role...

2. At "medium" speed stroke squirt "balanced" by deflection!!! Usually that kind of speed allows the cueball to reach the object ball sliding, not rolling and so cueball paths after pocketing the object ball are easier to determine using the 90 degree principle. Here too thicker shafts prevent the cueball from doing too much..

 

[Siz]

I think it's reasonable to expect the "best" shaft diameter to somehow match the size of the ball, but that's not what we see. I think 10mm is typical for snooker tips, and 12mm for carom tips (roughly). Those two are nearly in the same proportion as the diameters of the balls used in those games. If pool tips followed the same proportion, they would be about 11mm. (52.4mm, 57.1mm and 61.5mm for ball diameters)

I think far more important than the diameter of the tip is the amount of squirt the shaft has. That consideration seems to have changed pool cues a lot more than the others in the past 10 years, and squirt-reducing technology tends to remove any direct connection between tip and ball diameter.

If there is a "best" tip diameter for each ball size, it is sure to depend at least partly on the masses involved rather than the diameters, which implies that a simple ratio of diameters is not the whole story.

I agree. Further evidence is found from looking back to the time when english billiards was the main game played on 12' tables. The balls were still 2 1/16" back then, but the most common tip size was 11mm compared with a typical modern snooker tip size of 9-9.5mm. So it is not just ball size.

What has happened as the game changed is that players realised that they needed lower deflection cues, which meant lower end mass, and so smaller diameter tips.

It seems likely that the same thing has happened in pool as the dominant game has changed from 14.1 to 9 ball.

But I also think that there is a lot in what PJ says (as usual). It took many years for the tips in snooker to reduce from 10mm (common 20 years ago) to the current preferred diameter. I can think of nothing that has happened in the game to explain this. I suggest that most likely it is a form of intertia caused by people not knowing what they want when they start off playing, and later them wanting what they have become used to.