Stolen Cue Question

Billyard

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There was a post here which confirmed that a cue that a prominent AZ member is selling is stolen property.

Here is the post.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=316919&highlight=prewitt

Even though the AZ member rightfully paid for the cue; is it still OK to sell stolen property?

Based on the post, Ed confirmed it was stolen.

I know that noone wants to be out a lot of money for a high end cue but I dont know if that makes it right.

What are other members thoughts?
 
There was a post here which confirmed that a cue that a prominent AZ member is selling is stolen property.

Here is the post.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=316919&highlight=prewitt

Even though the AZ member rightfully paid for the cue; is it still OK to sell stolen property?

Based on the post, Ed confirmed it was stolen.

I know that noone wants to be out a lot of money for a high end cue but I dont know if that makes it right.

What are other members thoughts?


The only situation where this works out good is that the guy he bought it form gives back the money, the guy THAT guy bought it from (who is probably the thief), gets caught and that money is also recovered. Otherwise the last guy holding the cue is screwed.
 
I might be missing something, but the OP points to the guy who originally sold the cue apologizing. Where is the thread of the "prominent AZ member" offering to sell the cue?

The solution is quite straightforward (although sometimes a bitter pill for one man to swallow), but every honest guy involved unwinds and refunds until they get to the guy that stole it (if that guy exists) and he gets reported to the police. The last honest man is out the money and the cue is returned to the owner.

Thanks

Kevin
 
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I might be missing something, but the OP points to the guy who originally sold the cue apologizing. Where is the thread of the "prominent AZ member" offering to sell the cue?

The solution is quite straightforward (although sometimes a bitter pill for one man to swallow), but every honest guy involved unwinds and refunds until they get to the guy that stole it (if that guy exists) and he gets reported to the police. The last honest man is out the money and the cue is returned to the owner.

Thanks

Kevin

Here is the post with the stolen cue.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=315983&highlight=prewitt

The poster in the original thread sold this cue before he checked with Ed and realized it was stolen. Per Cleiton; he received the cue from a friend in California which is where the cue was stolen from.

Here is the Ebay listing for the cue... it was being sold for $1300 now it is being sold for over 4k....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ed-Prewitt-...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
 
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Here is the post with the stolen cue.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=315983&highlight=prewitt

The poster in the original thread sold this cue before he checked with Ed and realized it was stolen. Per Cleiton; receieved the cue from a friend in California which is where the cue was stolen from.

Here is the Ebay listing for the cue... it was being sold for $1300 not it is being sold for over 4k....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ed-Prewitt-...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Does "Per Cleiton" mean you spoke with him about this cue, showed him how he could verify that he was attempting to sell stolen property and he has decided to still offer the cue for sale?

Thanks

Kevin
 
Does "Per Cleiton" mean you spoke with him about this cue, showed him how he could verify that he was attempting to sell stolen property and he has decided to still offer the cue for sale?

Thanks

Kevin

No; here is the thread that started the discussion.. Cleiton posted here that he got the cue from California..

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=316064

Furtermore.. the OP said he sold the cue to a guy with a phone number of: 562-205-6278... when I do a google search I see that this number belongs to ANOTHER AZ member (itzel0101) from California and he has several cues currently for sale.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=3978579

So.. it sounds like the cue was stolen.. the OP got it from a local person.. who in turn sold it to itzel0101 who in turn sold it to Cleiton.. who in turn is trying to sell it on AZBilliards.
 
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No; here is the thread that started the discussion.. Cleiton posted here that he got the cue from California..

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=316064

Furtermore.. the OP said he bought the cue from a guy with a phone number of: 562-205-6278... when I do a google search I see that this number belongs to ANOTHER AZ member (itzel0101) from California and he has several cues currently for sale.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=3978579

Sorry I don't see where any of what I see shows he knows the cue is stolen? Has anybody told him?

PS I just talked to Cleiton who seems like a pretty nice guy and my call was the first he had heard about this. So we will see.

Kevin
 
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I don't know if anyone has told him yet. I was just wondering people's thoughts on ethics.
 
I don't know if anyone has told him yet. I was just wondering people's thoughts on ethics.

The ethics of selling a cue you don't know is stolen?

Seems to me to be the same ethics as selling any cue.

While we are discussing ethics, perhaps you you like to discuss the ethics of going to the trouble of starting a thread about the situation without bothering to contact the seller and see if he was aware/make him aware? His phone number was in the For Sale listing. I called him and he seemed very concerned about the situation and quite willing to to the right/ethical thing and is contacting Prewitt to confirm as we speak. I mean really, you are cross-directory detecting rather than calling the seller?

Cleiton asked me for Prewitt's number, I have him 310 305 9202, which is the number in my version of the Blue Book. Anybody know if this is his current number?

Kevin
 
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In the case of Pawn Shops that have bought stolen property by mistake. They are out money not the seller. They have to give the item back and eat the mistake.

I imagine this is the same case and as the seller didn't know it was stolen he did nothing ethically wrong. The buyer of the cue is likely legally obligated to turn over the cue and would have to file a case to get the money back from the seller but would likely never see the money again.
 
nobody wants to take the decision i offer, but here goes ...

if the current holder of the cue bought the cue in good faith and this appears to be the case, then offer to split the $1300 and return the cue to it's rightful owner who i'm pretty sure he would have paid $650 to get his cue back no questions asked.

this way the owner get's his prize possession back, and the holder of the stolen cue learns a $650 lesson. the owner's happy and the guy with the expensive lesson gets to know he did the right thing.

the guy that stole the cue, well i would make sure he "gets his."
 
I contacted ED PREWITT to find out all about this. As soon he calls me back ill let you all know what's going on...

Thanks for your concern. Now leave this post alone because some AZERS think they cann make anyone look like a thief ......
I'm a super honest person who sells cues and play pool because I love this game.

If re cue is really stollen it will be resolved ASAP


Thanks
CLEITON ROCHA
781-837-0117
 
I contacted ED PREWITT to find out all about this. As soon he calls me back ill let you all know what's going on...

Thanks for your concern. Now leave this post alone because some AZERS think they cann make anyone look like a thief ......
I'm a super honest person who sells cues and play pool because I love this game.

If re cue is really stollen it will be resolved ASAP


Thanks
CLEITON ROCHA
781-837-0117

Cleiton

Seems to me you are doing the ethical and right thing. If it turns out the cue is stolen, I'm sorry it happened to you. Good luck with it and keep us informed please.

Thanks

Kevin
 
Ed prewitt cue

I'm the original guy who both this cue from ebay. Obviously I would not be buying stolen property if I would have known. Billyard you could have contacted me or rocha instead of doing a post first:angry:!!!!! I got this cue from this guy Leo here in California here's his cell phone # (818) 967-8240 I hope this helps on getting more info on where the cue came from. I've tried contacting him to get some of these questions answered, but I haven't heard back from him.
 
In the case of Pawn Shops that have bought stolen property by mistake. They are out money not the seller. They have to give the item back and eat the mistake.

I imagine this is the same case and as the seller didn't know it was stolen he did nothing ethically wrong. The buyer of the cue is likely legally obligated to turn over the cue and would have to file a case to get the money back from the seller but would likely never see the money again.

Not 100% correct. If the seller is convicted Pawnshops get paid just a big hastle.
 
Update

Hello to all fellow Azer’s .
I was not aware that this cue was stolen when I bought it .
I just got off the phone with Ed Prewitt , He confirmed that this cue was stolen 12 to 15 years ago .
(Here’s the twist ) the cue was Insured and the man got paid in full for his loss .
I will have possession of this cue as of tomorrow I don’t want stolen property .
but now knowing what I know I will not take a $1300.00 loss and have the original owner get paid twice .
So If the original owner wants to step up to the plate with proof of sales receipt I have no problem giving back the cue for the $1300.00 I’m in it .
Thanks to all, I hope this issue gets resolved quick and let this be a lesson learned to all of us . :sorry:
 
Hello to all fellow Azer’s .
I was not aware that this cue was stolen when I bought it .
I just got off the phone with Ed Prewitt , He confirmed that this cue was stolen 12 to 15 years ago .
(Here’s the twist ) the cue was Insured and the man got paid in full for his loss .I will have possession of this cue as of tomorrow I don’t want stolen property .
but now knowing what I know I will not take a $1300.00 loss and have the original owner get paid twice .
So If the original owner wants to step up to the plate with proof of sales receipt I have no problem giving back the cue for the $1300.00 I’m in it .
Thanks to all, I hope this issue gets resolved quick and let this be a lesson learned to all of us . :sorry:
interesting development. you come across as very motivated to act in a moral manner. thumbs up.

please do update us with new developments
 
Hello to all fellow Azer’s .
I was not aware that this cue was stolen when I bought it .
I just got off the phone with Ed Prewitt , He confirmed that this cue was stolen 12 to 15 years ago .
(Here’s the twist ) the cue was Insured and the man got paid in full for his loss .
I will have possession of this cue as of tomorrow I don’t want stolen property .
but now knowing what I know I will not take a $1300.00 loss and have the original owner get paid twice .
So If the original owner wants to step up to the plate with proof of sales receipt I have no problem giving back the cue for the $1300.00 I’m in it .
Thanks to all, I hope this issue gets resolved quick and let this be a lesson learned to all of us . :sorry:

Stolen 12-15 years ago??? Must have gone around the block a bit, how did people figure out it was stolen so fast? Sounded like it was JUST stolen. We'll need an FBI style chart to link people to this cue, seems like it changed hands 3 times in the last few days alone.
 
Hello to all fellow Azer’s .
I was not aware that this cue was stolen when I bought it .
I just got off the phone with Ed Prewitt , He confirmed that this cue was stolen 12 to 15 years ago .
(Here’s the twist ) the cue was Insured and the man got paid in full for his loss .
I will have possession of this cue as of tomorrow I don’t want stolen property .
but now knowing what I know I will not take a $1300.00 loss and have the original owner get paid twice .
So If the original owner wants to step up to the plate with proof of sales receipt I have no problem giving back the cue for the $1300.00 I’m in it .
Thanks to all, I hope this issue gets resolved quick and let this be a lesson learned to all of us . :sorry:

itzel0101,

Clearly, you are taking steps to do the right thing and straighten this out by the book. No question about that.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I don't want you to get into any kind of trouble, so I'm just going to chime in here and let you know how this is supposed to play out. This is good information for all of us to become familiar with.

This is none of my business, and I certainly will not be getting involved. With that being said, I work for a police department and I want to make sure that none of my AZB friends get in any legal trouble. I am not a cop nor a lawyer. I'm just a computer guy that works closely with cops and lawyers.

Here's the thing: The cue technically belongs to the insurance company.

The insurance company became the owner the moment they wrote the insurance check to the original victim. Now that you know it was stolen (and the insurance company paid on the policy), it is your responsibility to *attempt to* (see note below) return it to the insurance company.

I just checked with my property crimes Lieutenant, and in response to the "hypothetical" situation that I presented to her, she said that if you don't return the cue, criminal charges "could" be brought against you. If you sell the cue (even to the original owner), it is called Theft by appropriation (which, at that price point, is a Class A Misdemeanor in Texas). And with these posts being publicly available on this thread, it wouldn't be hard to prove that you now know it is stolen. If you keep it, it would still be Theft (possession of stolen property).

Like I said, I hate to ruin your day, but at this point, even though it is years after the actual theft, it is as if the original thief has stolen the cue/cash from you.

The Lieutenant did mention that it is common for the last purchaser and the last seller to split the loss, but by no means mandated or required.

*Note*:
She also said that surprisingly often, the insurance company will not want it back, especially if it is a very old theft/policy, and if the item is considered to be a specialty or otherwise unpopular item. I sincerely hope that is what happens in this case. It would be the best possible outcome for all involved.

To be clear, I'm not getting involved in this in any way (unless you want to PM me for clarification or advice). I'm not filing any reports, naming any names, or otherwise taking any action.

I am certainly not judging, criticizing, censuring, reprimanding, blaming, or anything like that. I respect everything about what you've said so far, how you've acted responsibly, and how you've expressed a desire to make things right.

Let me know if I can help. PM would be best.

Sincerely,

-Blake
 
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I have also had a situation like this occur about 10 years ago.

I ended up contacting the insurance company and set all the information to them. i ended up having to hold onto the item for over 4 months while I talked to like 16 people within different departments and employees of the insurance company.

But, luckily, karma was on my side and the insurance company waived their rights to the item and I was able to sell the item, legally.

One thing I will give you advice on, is this, if the insurance company does waive its ownership rights, make sure that you get them to send this waiver to you in writing and let them transfer ownership rights to you. With this document, you are totally covered, now and in the future and even if the insurance company changed their mind in the future because the item became worth 1 million dollars, they would have no recourse, since they had assigned ownership rights to you, in writing.

If you need the legal/technical name of the document, I cant remember what it was called, but if you contact anyone in the legal world or a legal advocate, they should be able to direct you properly.

I have done multiple transactions with ITZLE0101 and I have bought a number of cues from him and have had no issues, and I hope that he does the right thing, but whatever he does, atleast he is getting all the facts and potential ramifications of a situation like this.

There is nothing worse than thinking you are doing everything right and then you still get in trouble.

All the best

Mike 'acedonkeyace' kennedy
 
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