straight pool "balls settling" rule

M

mestar

Registered
Can somebody please help with this ruling:

One ball sits deep inside left pocket touching the short rail. Players hits another object ball in the other pocket on the same short rail. He hits it with some speed, and with a stop shot, and both the object ball and the ball sitting in the pocket drop at almost the same time. Does the settling rule apply in this situation? Does the first ball stay in the pocket or is it restored back on the table?


Relevant rules:

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1.7 Balls Settling
A ball may settle slightly after it appears to have stopped, possibly due to slight imperfections in the ball or the table. Unless this causes a ball to fall into a pocket, it is considered a normal hazard of play, and the ball will not be moved back. If a ball falls into a pocket as the result of such settling, it is restored as closely as possible to its original position. If a settling ball falls into a pocket during or just prior to a shot, and this has an effect on the shot, the referee will restore the position and the shot will be replayed. The shooter is not penalized for shooting while a ball is settling. See also 8.3 Ball Pocketed.
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8.3 Ball Pocketed
A ball is pocketed if it comes to rest in a pocket below the playing surface or enters the ball return system. A ball near the brink of a pocket partly supported by another ball is considered pocketed if removal of the supporting ball would cause the ball to fall into the pocket.
If a ball stops near the edge of a pocket, and remains apparently motionless for five seconds, it is not considered pocketed if it later falls into the pocket by itself. See 1.7 Balls Settling for other details. During that five second period, the referee should ensure that no other shot is taken. An object ball that rebounds from a pocket back onto the playing surface is not a pocketed ball. If the cue ball contacts an already pocketed ball, the cue ball will be considered pocketed whether it rebounds from the pocket or not. The referee will remove pocketed object balls from full or nearly full pockets, but it is the shooter’s responsibility to see that this duty is performed.
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mestar said:
Can somebody please help with this ruling:

One ball sits deep inside left pocket touching the short rail. Players hits another object ball in the other pocket on the same short rail. He hits it with some speed, and with a stop shot, and both the object ball and the ball sitting in the pocket drop at almost the same time. Does the settling rule apply in this situation? Does the first ball stay in the pocket or is it restored back on the table?


Relevant rules:

---
1.7 Balls Settling
A ball may settle slightly after it appears to have stopped, possibly due to slight imperfections in the ball or the table. Unless this causes a ball to fall into a pocket, it is considered a normal hazard of play, and the ball will not be moved back. If a ball falls into a pocket as the result of such settling, it is restored as closely as possible to its original position. If a settling ball falls into a pocket during or just prior to a shot, and this has an effect on the shot, the referee will restore the position and the shot will be replayed. The shooter is not penalized for shooting while a ball is settling. See also 8.3 Ball Pocketed.
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8.3 Ball Pocketed
A ball is pocketed if it comes to rest in a pocket below the playing surface or enters the ball return system. A ball near the brink of a pocket partly supported by another ball is considered pocketed if removal of the supporting ball would cause the ball to fall into the pocket.
If a ball stops near the edge of a pocket, and remains apparently motionless for five seconds, it is not considered pocketed if it later falls into the pocket by itself. See 1.7 Balls Settling for other details. During that five second period, the referee should ensure that no other shot is taken. An object ball that rebounds from a pocket back onto the playing surface is not a pocketed ball. If the cue ball contacts an already pocketed ball, the cue ball will be considered pocketed whether it rebounds from the pocket or not. The referee will remove pocketed object balls from full or nearly full pockets, but it is the shooter’s responsibility to see that this duty is performed.
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I think I see the problem. The rule should not dwell on why the ball might settle, and if it does it should include possible subsequent vibration of the table due to shots or traffic.

If a ball moves without having been struck by another ball (or the cue stick, or a hand, etc.) it is considered to have settled. The settling rule applies to the situation you describe. Put the ball back on the lip of the pocket.
 
What if after pocketing another ball in another pocket, cueball hits the rail very close to the "settling ball", and this compression wave in the rails moves the ball and it falls in? This would look very similar to the case where you actually hit the ball very thin and pocket it.

Would you restore the ball in this case?

We are talking about the same situation as in the first post, just the lengths of the "path" that the vibrations have traveled are different.

What if you are actually shooting at the ball deep inside the pocket, touching the rail. You miss by one centimeter, but the object ball still pockets, because you, again, compressed the rail. Do you replace it and shoot again, because the ball moved without having been struck by another ball?
 
mestar said:
What if after pocketing another ball in another pocket, cueball hits the rail very close to the "settling ball", and this compression wave in the rails moves the ball and it falls in? This would look very similar to the case where you actually hit the ball very thin and pocket it.

Would you restore the ball in this case?

We are talking about the same situation as in the first post, just the lengths of the "path" that the vibrations have traveled are different.

What if you are actually shooting at the ball deep inside the pocket, touching the rail. You miss by one centimeter, but the object ball still pockets, because you, again, compressed the rail. Do you replace it and shoot again, because the ball moved without having been struck by another ball?
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One intent of the settling rule is that the balls should only be pocketed because they were struck directly by some ball. I suppose the rule needs to be worded more carefully to avoid such confusion.
 
If it was your opponent that made that ball and argues with you that he should be able to keep it, give it to him with your blessing. That's one less insurance ball he has when he continues. :)
 
3andstop said:
If it was your opponent that made that ball and argues with you that he should be able to keep it, give it to him with your blessing. That's one less insurance ball he has when he continues. :)
Click to expand...

In the actual situation, my opponent wanted to put the ball back on the table because he would have an easier combo to shoot for. Also, the ball "settled in" two shots after it came to be in that spot in the pocket.

I think it's kind of ridiculous to have some balls "settling" into pockets while other balls are still moving on the table, unless it changes the outcome of the shot.

In fact, the rules can already be interpreted that way, if you apply first 3 sentences of 1.7 only for in-between shots situation, and the rest for the during shot time.
 
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