Stroke and Fundamental review request.

H

Herbie

New member
I would very much appreciate any instructors feedback on my stroke and basic fundamentals. (please see linked video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux2nd8CLN-g )

I would have preferred direct coaching over video analysis but instructors are few and far between here in Sydney, Australia.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
 
Nice, very nice. You have worked hard to get a nice stroke.

I like everything about your timing and rhythm.

BUT

If you were my student we would study the QUIET EYE STUDY.
It appears that you have a rapid eye movement, so very hard to tell.

Try this:
After your two beautiful warm-up strokes, stop your cue and switch your eyes to the target. Focus before you start your backstroke.

Great job
randyg
 
I agree with Randy but I would like to add one more consideration.

What is the plan for your cueball position after contact with the OB during this drill? I have seen it do lots of things, and I an not sure if they were planned or not.

Maybe focus on a stopshot, this way you can check your alignment and tip placement and speed of your stroke.
 
Herbie,

I like the way you allow your elbow to drop when it wants & you get the cue & the tip 'straight through' where the CB sat.

What I saw is that you plant your bridge hand with the tip rather far from the ball & practice stroke into the near hit position. I can not really see if you make any right hand adjustment.

If not, you might want to experiment with setting the tip 'at' the cue ball before going into the non hit strokes.

Best Wishes for You & Yours,
Rick

PS I am not a paper certificate holding instructor. I've just been playing for nearly 50 years. So take what I say here however you will.
 
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There is a raising of the head and shoulders before you start the final back stroke. This can be very detrimental to most. I would recommend slowing pull back right down whilst focusing on keeping the head locked in position throughout.

You tend to plant the lead leg first which is what a lot of most pool players do. If you were my student I would introduce walking into the shot by planting the back leg first then the lead leg. This gives you a clear view of the line of aim and helps with overall alignment. I would also make the stance a little more square on for stability issues.

Other than that I would recommend not just hitting balls like this, even if it was just for the video. Always have an outcome in mind for the white ball.... So you can evaluate the outcome and learn from it.

Overall it's a very aesthetic cue action and one you've clearly worked a lot on. Keep up the good work.
 
Pidge said:
There is a raising of the head and shoulders before you start the final back stroke. This can be very detrimental to most. I would recommend slowing pull back right down whilst focusing on keeping the head locked in position throughout.

You tend to plant the lead leg first which is what a lot of most pool players do. If you were my student I would introduce walking into the shot by planting the back leg first then the lead leg. This gives you a clear view of the line of aim and helps with overall alignment. I would also make the stance a little more square on for stability issues.

Other than that I would recommend not just hitting balls like this, even if it was just for the video. Always have an outcome in mind for the white ball.... So you can evaluate the outcome and learn from it.

Overall it's a very aesthetic cue action and one you've clearly worked a lot on. Keep up the good work.
Click to expand...

Pidge

I saw the same thing. I think it happens because of a poor eye pattern.

randyg
 
Herbie said:
I would very much appreciate any instructors feedback on my stroke and basic fundamentals. (please see linked video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux2nd8CLN-g )

I would have preferred direct coaching over video analysis but instructors are few and far between here in Sydney, Australia.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
Click to expand...

Herbie, I'd rather see a video of you moving around the table, shooting different shots. It would be much more informative. A player can fall into a groove shooting the same shot over and over but then when playing an actual game, suddenly things change.

Nice place, by the way. What's on the walls?
 
Thanks very much to everyone for the great feedback so far.

Randyg - I will work on quiet eyes, focus on target ball during final backswing.
Mike - I currently use an open bridge all the time. It's not very common here in Australia to see a closed bridge, perhaps because the pool here has evolved more from snooker. A closed bridge is something I think I want to work on.
Tony - For the video I just used a variety of cue ball position, some stop shots and some follow shots. I'll try out placing the tip at the cue ball before the practice strokes.
Rick - Do you think that is ok where I drop my elbow? I'll try starting with the tip at the cue ball before the practice shots.
Pidge - I'll work on keeping the head still during the final back swing in conjunction with the quiet eyes and focus on target ball. I'll also try walking into the shot.
FranCrimi - I'll take another video with me moving around the table shooting various shots and repost after I've spent some time trying to correct the other issues raised. The place is my local Leagues football club (www.sharkies.com.au), the drawings on the walls are caricature drawings of famous Australian rugby league football personalities. They have two 7 foot Diamond tables which I try to practice on nearly every day. A friend of mine just bought a reconditioned 9 foot GC3 which we've been playing on once a week.

If any instructors decided to visit Australia and do some coaching while you were here I know I, and a number of other players here in Sydney, that would be very interested. I sure we could take great care of you and show you around.
Failing that I suppose one day I would like to take a holiday in the U.S. and get some coaching while there.

Thanks again and regards,
Herbie.
 
Herbie said:
Thanks very much to everyone for the great feedback so far.

Randyg - I will work on quiet eyes, focus on target ball during final backswing.
Mike - I currently use an open bridge all the time. It's not very common here in Australia to see a closed bridge, perhaps because the pool here has evolved more from snooker. A closed bridge is something I think I want to work on.
Tony - For the video I just used a variety of cue ball position, some stop shots and some follow shots. I'll try out placing the tip at the cue ball before the practice strokes.
Rick - Do you think that is ok where I drop my elbow? I'll try starting with the tip at the cue ball before the practice shots.
Pidge - I'll work on keeping the head still during the final back swing in conjunction with the quiet eyes and focus on target ball. I'll also try walking into the shot.
FranCrimi - I'll take another video with me moving around the table shooting various shots and repost after I've spent some time trying to correct the other issues raised. The place is my local Leagues football club (www.sharkies.com.au), the drawings on the walls are caricature drawings of famous Australian rugby league football personalities. They have two 7 foot Diamond tables which I try to practice on nearly every day. A friend of mine just bought a reconditioned 9 foot GC3 which we've been playing on once a week.

If any instructors decided to visit Australia and do some coaching while you were here I know I, and a number of other players here in Sydney, that would be very interested. I sure we could take great care of you and show you around.
Failing that I suppose one day I would like to take a holiday in the U.S. and get some coaching while there.

Thanks again and regards,
Herbie.
Click to expand...


BEFORE final backstroke!

randyg
 
randyg said:
Pidge

I saw the same thing. I think it happens because of a poor eye pattern.

randyg
Click to expand...
Absolutely agree. You can see the eye brows raise and the head tilt. This is why I feel a pause is so crucial either at the front or back, to let the eyes focus especially in the older generation of players so they can move much more slowly and 'quietly'.
 
FranCrimi said:
Herbie, I'd rather see a video of you moving around the table, shooting different shots. It would be much more informative. A player can fall into a groove shooting the same shot over and over but then when playing an actual game, suddenly things change.

Nice place, by the way. What's on the walls?
Click to expand...

Same thing I thought too, Fran. (not that i'm any better)
 
Herbie said:
Thanks very much to everyone for the great feedback so far.

Randyg - I will work on quiet eyes, focus on target ball during final backswing.
Mike - I currently use an open bridge all the time. It's not very common here in Australia to see a closed bridge, perhaps because the pool here has evolved more from snooker. A closed bridge is something I think I want to work on.
Tony - For the video I just used a variety of cue ball position, some stop shots and some follow shots. I'll try out placing the tip at the cue ball before the practice strokes.
Rick - Do you think that is ok where I drop my elbow? I'll try starting with the tip at the cue ball before the practice shots.
Pidge - I'll work on keeping the head still during the final back swing in conjunction with the quiet eyes and focus on target ball. I'll also try walking into the shot.
FranCrimi - I'll take another video with me moving around the table shooting various shots and repost after I've spent some time trying to correct the other issues raised. The place is my local Leagues football club (www.sharkies.com.au), the drawings on the walls are caricature drawings of famous Australian rugby league football personalities. They have two 7 foot Diamond tables which I try to practice on nearly every day. A friend of mine just bought a reconditioned 9 foot GC3 which we've been playing on once a week.

If any instructors decided to visit Australia and do some coaching while you were here I know I, and a number of other players here in Sydney, that would be very interested. I sure we could take great care of you and show you around.
Failing that I suppose one day I would like to take a holiday in the U.S. and get some coaching while there.

Thanks again and regards,
Herbie.
Click to expand...

Hi Herbie.

Yes, I said I like the way you LET your elbow drop & get the cue through straight in line, when you do.

You may want to read an excerpt from an hold thread that I just posted in my What Type of Cueist Are You thread. It is regarding the elbow & it's not from me.

Best Wishes for You & Yours,
Rick
 
Herbie said:
focus on target ball during final backswing.
Click to expand...

Herbie,
Without starting a war here and/or across the pond......there is a TON of debate about this. Search this forum and you will find a lot of discussion on this very topic. You might want to check into this further.

Focusing on the OB during the final backswing is fine. That seems to be what a lot of players do. But, and I've been told this by instructors and pool players, if your preference is CB last, that is fine also. Whatever works best for you.

r/Mike
 
Herbie...I noticed the same things that Randyg and Tony saw, plus perhaps a couple of others. Nice cueing action, but it looks to me like you have a forward cocked wrist (at CB address), and appear to have some wrist curl as you strike the CB. Either or both of these things can cause small errors in where you strike the CB. When setting up for stop shots your CB should stop perfectly...no movement forward, backwards or right to left. That doesn't appear to happen much. Are you using a laser and the little paper hole reinforcements so that you're certain you have a dead straight line to the pocket? Seek out Greg Jenkins. He is a excellent pool player from your country, who has a great stroke, and has helped many other players. You can find him on Facebook. Don't know if he is from Sydney, but definitely from down under! :grin:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
 
Thanks for the additional feedback

Mike, Thanks, I think I prefer to focus on object ball.
Scott, Until recently I played with a very bent wrist, I've been trying to correct that (you might have seen me look back at my wrist to check) . I'll put more attention into that and drill with the straight in shot. Thanks for pointing it out. I actually am having some coaching with Greg Jenkins, he's good, I'll let him know you recommended him on Tuesday. I'm still trying to sort out any and all problems with my fundamentals and stroke.
Thanks to everyone, quiet eyes seems to be an agreed issue so I'll be working on that as well. I might repost video (shooting shots) after I spend time with all the issues raised.

Regards,
Herbie.
 
randyg said:
Pidge

I saw the same thing. I think it happens because of a poor eye pattern.

randyg
Click to expand...

SVB, Scott Frost, Nick Varner (just to name a couple of players)......move their head or body during final stroke,( making contact with the cue ball)? It looks to me like Scott, and Nick turns their head slightly, and Shane appears to raise up slightly, some shoulder movement and moves forward on final stroke.
I'm sure these players wasn't taught to do that. Any comments?
 
EddieBme said:
SVB, Scott Frost, Nick Varner (just to name a couple of players)......move their head or body during final stroke,( making contact with the cue ball)? It looks to me like Scott, and Nick turns their head slightly, and Shane appears to raise up slightly, some shoulder movement and moves forward on final stroke.
I'm sure these players wasn't taught to do that. Any comments?
Click to expand...

In most sports where a ball is hit the implement is lead into position by some part of the body before the actual hit.

To hit a ball while staying perfectly still is unnatural.

CJ Wiley started talking about the shoulder before he left & Fran Crimi has made a small mention of it.

Natural movements are rather different from those that have been thought out & contrived.

The Human Mind & Body are rather amazing entities that are capable of some rather amazing things...

that is if we can just get our conscious minds out of their way.

Best Wishes for You & Yours & ALL.
 
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I initially thought you might have a slightly forward cocked wrist as mentioned by Scott but I'm wondering if it seemed that way because you have a very tight grip on the cue and your wrist is locked in a single position.

The lighting is somewhat poor in the video and it's difficult to see but it stuck me there's no flex in the wrist at all, even within the follow through, which leads me to think you might be "white knuckling" the cue stick a bit.

Given the poor quality of the video, I may be way off base but you might benefit by relaxing the grip and wrist a bit more within your delivery.

"Different strokes for different folks"...Experiment a little bit.
 
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ENGLISH! said:
In most sports where a ball is hit the implement is lead into position by some part of the body before the actual hit.

To hit a ball while staying perfectly still is unnatural.

CJ Wiley started talking about the shoulder before he left & Fran Crimi has made a small mention of it.

Natural movements are rather different from those that have been thought out & contrived.

The Human Mind & Body are rather amazing entities that are capable of some rather amazing things...

that is if we can just get our conscious minds out their way.

Best Wishes for You & Yours & ALL.
Click to expand...

Thank you for that bit of information ENGLISH. I feel like that maybe one of the reasons, I tend to shoot harder than I need too. I'm certainly going to give it try, and maybe that'll help me to relax a little when I'm shooting, (especially, on long shots).
 
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