stroke help

JayBates

JayBates

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i have figured out a good pre-shot routine for me. only problem is i have an unconsistant stroke. i have noticed that the natural pendulum (i cant spell it) of my elbow and forearm seems to curve toward my body at the end and beginning of the stroke at times. thats how it is when im comfortable. then at times i will just stroke strait and true. i have been using a coke bottle for a while as a stroke trainer but it seems you can cheat it. i have gotten used to my crooked stroke and i pivit the cue left and right, right in the mouth of the bottle. i dont hit the mouth of the bottle but i can visualy see the tip of the cue going right. this exersize helped me at first but i think i have gotten used to it and now gotten used to a crooked stroke again. also i was watching some 9 ball on espn the other day and noticed allison fishers grip was totaly diferent than mine...so was her opponent. i dont have much table time to practice on so everything i can do at home helps a lot...any suggestions?
thanks,
Jay
 
How are you gripping???

How are you gripping the cue? Are you holding it relatively tight?

You should try holding it loosely with just your thumb and first two fingers. and make sure that when you contact the CB you're letting the weight of the Cue do the work and you aren't trying to force the cue through the CB

And with the bottle exercise, How far away is your bridge from the opening of the bottle? It should be 10-12" away and your tip should only be going 4-6 inches into the bottle.

Act like the bottle is the CB and you're stroking through it just as you would the CB.

You want to make sure that while you're practicing or doing the bottle exercise that you are consciously aware of what your body is doing so that when you play you can concentrate on the shots.
 
Jay...As Jaden suggested, the grip must be loose, whether it is just a couple of fingers, or your whole hand. I disagree about the 10-12" bridge. Move your bridge hand closer to the bottle opening, so that it's only 6-8". When you grip the cue tightly, one has a tendency to twist the cue (or curl your grip hand), which would cause the tip to curve in or out, as you describe. Watching Allison is a good thing to try and imitate. You're absolutely correct about the pre-shot routine being all-important. If you can, find an instructor to help make sure you're setting up properly, with good timing, and a great delivery. Joe Tucker's aiming device might help you too...it's inexpensive, but very worthwhile. It clips right on the end of your cuestick (www.joetucker.com).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
JayBates said:
i have figured out a good pre-shot routine for me. only problem is i have an unconsistant stroke. i have noticed that the natural pendulum (i cant spell it) of my elbow and forearm seems to curve toward my body at the end and beginning of the stroke at times. thats how it is when im comfortable. then at times i will just stroke strait and true. i have been using a coke bottle for a while as a stroke trainer but it seems you can cheat it. i have gotten used to my crooked stroke and i pivit the cue left and right, right in the mouth of the bottle. i dont hit the mouth of the bottle but i can visualy see the tip of the cue going right. this exersize helped me at first but i think i have gotten used to it and now gotten used to a crooked stroke again. also i was watching some 9 ball on espn the other day and noticed allison fishers grip was totaly diferent than mine...so was her opponent. i dont have much table time to practice on so everything i can do at home helps a lot...any suggestions?
thanks,
Jay
Click to expand...

Have somebody watch you hit some balls and answer two questions for you:

1) Is the line from your shooting shoulder to your shooting elbow lined up with the line of the aim?

2) Is the line from your shooting elbow to your shooting wrist perpendicular to the floor?

The "pendulum" only swings in line with the shot if both these things are true. Figure out how to stand so your should is directly over top of the line of aim (and hopefully your cue, since that needs to be on the line of aim). Then figure out how to hold upper arm so your elbow is in line with your shoulder and the line of aim. Then figure out how to hold your lower arm so your wrist and hand are directly below your elbow.

Then the natural hinging of your elbow can make your shooting hand into a true pendulum, swinging the cue perfectly straight along the line of aim.

-Andrew
 
Throw the bottle away before you ruin your stroke for good. Watching other player's hands should have no effect on you. Everybody has their own physical differences. I agree with Scott Lee, find a local Instructor....randyg
 
well thanks for all the input guys.....i have stoped the bottle as it seems it has just made it worse. unfortunately im only 19, dont make much, and trying to buy land so an instructor is out of the question...pluss i live in north mississippi....i have to drive 30 minutes to play pool on crappy bar boxes :( the good tables are an hour away. and come to think of it my wrist was both curled and relatively tightly gripped. most nights i dont have this problem but when i do its so frustrating. il try a few things diferent when i get off work tonight. i cant seem to get the joe tucker link to pull up for some reason btw.
thanks again,
Jay
 
my grip hand was one area of my game i had problems with for over a year. Due to my index finger getting cut off and reattached, the joint doesnt bend and i always felt that my grip off. I literally tried every possible way to hold the cue, very loose, tight, all fingers, middle finger, gripping the sides of the cue with my fingers. I learnt alot in the process.....pool school with randy g helped me alot but it was actually something someone posted on here that has helped me get the grip hand i use now and with great consistentcy. Basically i make sure the cue is snug into the web of my hand (area between the thumb and first finger), and then i wrap my middle and ring fingers around the cue lightly, and thats it. Let your index finger and your pinky just ride the cue but not grip, the reason is either finger has a tendency to torque the cue, especially on a hard stroke. Test this by using the set pause finish freeze Randyg teaches (when you do get the money i cant recommend his cue-tech school highly enough).......the freeze aspect has your cue pointing out where it finished.......is it straight......is it twisted to one side or the other? My pinky makes me twist to the right, let it hang down straight and my stroke is straight as an arrow. Hope that helps
 
you have a hook in your stroke.

are you curling your wrist in also???

the coke bottle trick might help some but i generally think it's bogus. when you use a bottle, the whole point of your practice is to stroke your tip through the bottle neck,,,,NOTHING ELSE. therefore you can train your stroke for the bottle.

WHEN YOU STROKE AT A CB TO POCKET A BALL, your focus is on pocketing, not "stroking through the bottle".

if you have a serious hook that is affecting your game, try holding the cue in different ways to minimize the curl(if you're curling your wrist). i have a slight hook as well. to minimize that i hold my forearm out a bit(the forearm is thus not exactly vertical). oliver orttman does this. or you might try a sidewinder style like mosconi.
 
The bottle technique isn't only ment for the "neck", but also the back of the bottle.

One part of doing the "bottle", is to learn how to keep your stick low and level throughout your range of stroke.

If you can hit the back of the bottle, stop your stroke, and have the bottle go down table without you feeling it hit your shaft, then you've done it correctly.

(listen/feel the response of the stick)

_____________

Start with a foundation, build from there.
 
Do not worry about what fingers are holding the cue, just keep your grip light, and keep your wrist stable. When you have a crooked stroke, you feel it in your grip. You feel the cue twisting and rolling off your fingers as you stroke back and forth. When your stroke is straight, you will find a natural way to grip the cue, so don't worry about what fingers are holding it. No matter what grip you use, if your stroke is crooked, the grip won't feel right. Now, to fix your stroke, what I am about to say is by far the most important factor in stroking straight. Your elbow is a fixed hinge. Your shoulder is a ball hinge. Since you cannot move your forearm from left to right without moving your shoulder, how come you can't stroke straight? The reason why is because there is one natural straight path that your forearm can take, because it is a fixed hinge. You must find the position that your stroking arm can be in that best suits your sighting. You can find this natural straight path by playing one-handed for a few hours. That is important factor #1. Important factor #2 is where your bridge hand is placed. If your bridge hand is not directly in line with that natural path of your fixed hinge stroking arm, you will have a crooked stroke, unless you have developed a repetitive sideways swing that involves the use of your shoulder. The degree that your bridge hand is misaligned with your stroking arm will be the degree of how crooked your stroke is. When you find that natural straight path, you will develop muscle memory for it very fast and you will have a very powerful stroke. Many people play pool their entire lives without ever finding that natural straight swing alignment, and they develop strokes with alot of sideways movement in their arm to compensate for their misalignment. You can stroke straight like that, but it is extremely hard to be consistent.
 
'Lo, Jay.

North Mississippi, huh? I lived in Oxford in the Fifties.

I'd suggest keeping your shoulder, elbow, forearm, and cue in the same vertical plane (you can check this at home with a mirror). I don't think you should start stroking with your forearm inside our outside of that plane to compensate for a problem with an unidentified cause--that's poking your eye out to cure a squint. Also, other posters have given you good advice about your grip.

And finally, that Players butterfly is a good lookin', good playin' cue. Don't be self-conscious about your equipment or your level of play. Everybody was a beginner once and we all know it. Play to enjoy the game!

Best wishes,
AS
 
cuetechasaurus- thanks for the info. seems there is a bunch more to take into consideration than i first thought.

Captain- ya oxford is about 45 minutes from here...they have a couple good places to shoot. my "local" tables are in New Albany...not saying much if you know New Albany. just oxford and tupelo are too far to drive. i wouldnt say im self conscious about my game, rather unconsistant. and i love my butterfly. u look at the name players and dont think much but it is a solid playing cue for 80 bucks. i read an indipendant test on diflection ratings and what not for diferent makes of shafts. players didnt do too bad...better than meuccis claim to fame black dot bullseye (not saying much as i think meucci shafts feel like noodles) ;)

thanks again guys,
Jay
 
well i found out what my problem was. my stance was twisted. i would stand with my feet facing the shot slightly wider than shoulder width apart for stability, then my torso would be twisted into the cue. i tried shooting with my chest facing the shot more and wow what a diference. feels so much more comefortable and relaxed. my stroke is a lot smoother now. well thanks for all the input guys
thanks again,
Jay
 
JayBates said:
well i found out what my problem was. my stance was twisted. i would stand with my feet facing the shot slightly wider than shoulder width apart for stability, then my torso would be twisted into the cue. i tried shooting with my chest facing the shot more and wow what a diference. feels so much more comefortable and relaxed. my stroke is a lot smoother now. well thanks for all the input guys
thanks again,
Jay
Click to expand...

it's great that you found your problem yourself. pool is a journey of self discovery, and you learn more about your game when you solve your own problems
 
JayBates said:
well i found out what my problem was. my stance was twisted. i would stand with my feet facing the shot slightly wider than shoulder width apart for stability, then my torso would be twisted into the cue. i tried shooting with my chest facing the shot more and wow what a diference. feels so much more comefortable and relaxed. my stroke is a lot smoother now. well thanks for all the input guys
thanks again,
Jay
Click to expand...

If your newfound stance does not help your stroke for more than 3 days, find another stance. This happens in pool all the time. You find something that works for a few days and suddenly it stops working. This is an endless cycle I went thru until I really figured out what mattered to fix my stroke.
 
I never liked using a coke bottle much. The best bottle to train the stroke is a Red Stripe beer bottle. The opening is so small theres barely any room for error. Furthermore you have an incentive not screw up because it could scratch your shaft.
 
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