Stroke limit/skill apex

[Gatz]

I've hit above 700 Fargo (with about 1400 robustness) have beaten some good players (high 700's 1 800) and have won some pretty good tournaments. All I know is once I started taking my practice as serious as I did playing a tournament my game sky rocketed and has consistently stayed at a high level. As long as I keep up with my regular practice/drills and keep focused.

Another key note I noticed over time is practicing with others. If I go to league or tournament, I will never hit balls with someone else. 99% of the players in my area don't take it seriously enough and it will just throw me off my game. I will always practice by myself. I'll throw the 15 balls on the table and do straight in shots for first 15 balls. Bottoms/tops/stun etc... to get my stroke and mechanics all dialed in, then try to break and run racks like as if I'm playing someone else, I will not take ball in hand and play like the ghost. Then once I get a good few racks in I will practice my break for 15mins or so. If my break is dialed in I will go back to playing racks.

I will play as if I'm two players, try to hook myself, pushout if needed and run out if it's possible. I will never take on shots I wouldn't do in a match. 8ball its just break and run. Playing the ghost is unrealistic too me, how often do you get ball in hand in a match?

I try to practice 2hrs a day and if I can't it's every OTHER day. I work 50+hrs a week have a wife and son. So time is super critical for me. If I'm not focused practicing, I won't practice. I by no means consider myself an awesome player. I'm always just trying to get better and better.

If I'm in a tournament and have long waits between matches I will do drills to keep my stroke straight and practice my break constantly. I don't even like being bothered when I'm practicing. I feel like a dick sometimes but don't like to waste time lol

I also keep a spare cueball in my cue case. Sometimes there are absolutely no 9fts or 8fts to practice on inbetween matches. Almost all the rooms around here have atleast 1 snooker table. I will do up and down drills with cueball to keep my stroke straight. Its better than sitting around and doing nothing lol

 

[Fatboy]

How one handles the heat is part of the conversation as well. Some guys can’t play a lick when there is someone shooting back at them. Practice champions.

 

[The_JV]

I'll throw the 15 balls on the table and do straight in shots for first 15 balls.

I've been told multiple times on this forum that this is the worst way to practice. Rather than ducking me league night. You should just take the beating like a good boy...

 

[The_JV]

As far as players maxing out...

There's only two reasons for this:

1. Lack of effort
2. Delusions of grandeur

There are players who simply don't put in the time. I'm one of those players. I get frustrated and make false promises to myself, but I simply have other things going on, and I'm passed my prime physically.

Some who put insane amounts of effort simply refuse to accept that maybe what they have been doing all those years may not have been the best course of action. Sometimes you just need to come to terms that you might have to take a few steps backward to build up speed to clear that next hurdle.

 

[Jimmorrison]

I've hit above 700 Fargo (with about 1400 robustness) have beaten some good players (high 700's 1 800) and have won some pretty good tournaments. All I know is once I started taking my practice as serious as I did playing a tournament my game sky rocketed and has consistently stayed at a high level. As long as I keep up with my regular practice/drills and keep focused.

Another key note I noticed over time is practicing with others. If I go to league or tournament, I will never hit balls with someone else. 99% of the players in my area don't take it seriously enough and it will just throw me off my game. I will always practice by myself. I'll throw the 15 balls on the table and do straight in shots for first 15 balls. Bottoms/tops/stun etc... to get my stroke and mechanics all dialed in, then try to break and run racks like as if I'm playing someone else, I will not take ball in hand and play like the ghost. Then once I get a good few racks in I will practice my break for 15mins or so. If my break is dialed in I will go back to playing racks.

I will play as if I'm two players, try to hook myself, pushout if needed and run out if it's possible. I will never take on shots I wouldn't do in a match. 8ball its just break and run. Playing the ghost is unrealistic too me, how often do you get ball in hand in a match?

I try to practice 2hrs a day and if I can't it's every OTHER day. I work 50+hrs a week have a wife and son. So time is super critical for me. If I'm not focused practicing, I won't practice. I by no means consider myself an awesome player. I'm always just trying to get better and better.

If I'm in a tournament and have long waits between matches I will do drills to keep my stroke straight and practice my break constantly. I don't even like being bothered when I'm practicing. I feel like a dick sometimes but don't like to waste time lol

I also keep a spare cueball in my cue case. Sometimes there are absolutely no 9fts or 8fts to practice on inbetween matches. Almost all the rooms around here have atleast 1 snooker table. I will do up and down drills with cueball to keep my stroke straight. Its better than sitting around and doing nothing lol

You're entire post is right on. Congrats to breaking 700! I have one small thing to ask, not a criticism, just a question. Are you ever approachable, when at the table? A 500 could maybe jump to 550.

 

[Gatz]

You're entire post is right on. Congrats to breaking 700! I have one small thing to ask, not a criticism, just a question. Are you ever approachable, when at the table? A 500 could maybe jump to 550.

Haha! Im exaggerating a little. I won’t tell anyone to F off or anything. But, I won’t try to carry on a conversation for too long if I’m in the middle of practicing. If I really know the person well i’ll tell them i’m busy practicing. Most people just know to leave me alone when I’m practicing. Or maybe nobody approaches me because I just look like a dick lol

Thank you btw. I had a goal to break 700 Fargo for a very long time. Took me 3 years of grinding

 

[SLO-ROLL]

How one handles the heat is part of the conversation as well. Some guys can’t play a lick when there is someone shooting back at them. Practice champions.

BINGO

 

[straightline]

How one handles the heat is part of the conversation as well. Some guys can’t play a lick when there is someone shooting back at them. Practice champions.

My take is it's the second opposing mind interfering with your "style". If there's too much active pressure, I'll do something more productive.

 

[tomatoshooter]

Playing the ghost is unrealistic too me, how often do you get ball in hand in a match?

I guess that's to make it more possible to beat the ghost, I think I've heard that pros break and run 30% of racks. Also it removes the variable of getting hooked on the break. I think it can be a good measure of your offensive capability and progress, but like you point out, it's not a good assessment of what you could do in a match. I hate when some pooltuber is doing pattern play drills that start with BIH. I need to learn how to make something happen coming to the table in the worst possible position. I'm going to start trying to do that, play both sides but one side is ONLY trying to hide the cue ball. Whenever I try the table always looks like I can run it out and I can't not go for it.

 

[buckshotshoey]

Haha! Im exaggerating a little. I won’t tell anyone to F off or anything. But, I won’t try to carry on a conversation for too long if I’m in the middle of practicing. If I really know the person well i’ll tell them i’m busy practicing. Most people just know to leave me alone when I’m practicing. Or maybe nobody approaches me because I just look like a dick lol

Thank you btw. I had a goal to break 700 Fargo for a very long time. Took me 3 years of grinding

Here's the problem you run into when trying to practice by yourself... There are a limited number of tables for people to practice on. When you hog one all up to yourself you are a dick. Just means you don't give a damn about anybody else.

Not That any of that is true about you , but that's exactly how you look to other people who are trying to get a few practice strokes in themselves .

If I get to a table by myself, and someone asks me join in, I always welcome them. Even if it's practicing by yourself on each end of the table.

If I'm shooting Balls by myself and someone comes up and asks do you want to play a few? My typical response is... AS MANY AS I CAN BEFORE I DIE!

 

[The_JV]

Haha! Im exaggerating a little. I won’t tell anyone to F off or anything. But, I won’t try to carry on a conversation for too long if I’m in the middle of practicing. If I really know the person well i’ll tell them i’m busy practicing. Most people just know to leave me alone when I’m practicing. Or maybe nobody approaches me because I just look like a dick lol

Thank you btw. I had a goal to break 700 Fargo for a very long time. Took me 3 years of grinding

Here's the problem you run into when trying to practice by yourself... There are a limited number of tables for people to practice on. When you hog one all up to yourself you are a dick. Just means you don't give a damn about anybody else.

Not That any of that is true about you , but that's exactly how you look to other people who are trying to get a few practice strokes in themselves .

This a rare thing but I'll defend Gatz for a second. Our league night is fairly busy, and the tables are assigned to the teams well in advance. I also tend to jump on a table solo for a short while before the regulars pour in. What usually happens is those later arriving players eventually find their assigned tables and those practicing solo give them up. That said, Gatz tends to look like a dick under normal circumstances so....

Kidding aside... Warming up as a "team" really doesn't work. The goal is get dialed in and loosened up. Grinding out a rack of 8b for 10mins acting like it's the finals of the USopen isn't the way to loosen up.

There's another odd dynamic that happens at the room we play league out of. The general player tends to shy away from pursuing practice/games from those higher in the food chain. It's really weird and the phenomenon gets more severe the higher up you go in the pecking order. Doesn't matter how willing you may be to play. They simply will not ask.

 

[The_JV]

I guess that's to make it more possible to beat the ghost, I think I've heard that pros break and run 30% of racks. Also it removes the variable of getting hooked on the break. I think it can be a good measure of your offensive capability and progress, but like you point out, it's not a good assessment of what you could do in a match. I hate when some pooltuber is doing pattern play drills that start with BIH. I need to learn how to make something happen coming to the table in the worst possible position. I'm going to start trying to do that, play both sides but one side is ONLY trying to hide the cue ball. Whenever I try the table always looks like I can run it out and I can't not go for it.

Consider 'pro ghost'...

I generally play a hybrid version that only allows BIH after the break if I'm snookered.

Either way it places way more improtance on controling your break shot. Which is the most improtant shot in the game imo.

 

[jokrswylde]

My first thought is, get the hell out of the APA, get to a pool hall with 9 ft. tables and players with a variety of skill levels from low to high, don't play high level players.

Folks say this all the time. Why? What is so dadgum important about playing on a 9 ft. table...if YOU ARE NEVER AROUND 9 FT. TABLES? You can develop skill and improve your game on ANY table. I have to drive almost an hour to even find a pool hall with 3 9 ft. tables...that are always filled with old men playing cutthroat or scotch doubles.

In that same hours drive, I can find probably 100 local weekly or monthly tournaments played on 7 ft. diamonds. I ain't skeered of 9 ft. tables, I just don't see the advantage of playing on them when almost every establishment has, and every tournament in my neck of the woods is on 7 footers Unless you have ambition to compete with the big boys in the big tourneys, there is no reason to go out searching for a 9 foot table.

 

[buckshotshoey]

This a rare thing but I'll defend Gatz for a second. Our league night is fairly busy, and the tables are assigned to the teams well in advance. I also tend to jump on a table solo for a short while before the regulars pour in. What usually happens is those later arriving players eventually find their assigned tables and those practicing solo give them up. That said, Gatz tends to look like a dick under normal circumstances so....

Kidding aside... Warming up as a "team" really doesn't work. The goal is get dialed in and loosened up. Grinding out a rack of 8b for 10mins acting like it's the finals of the USopen isn't the way to loosen up.

There's another odd dynamic that happens at the room we play league out of. The general player tends to shy away from pursuing practice/games from those higher in the food chain. It's really weird and the phenomenon gets more severe the higher up you go in the pecking order. Doesn't matter how willing you may be to play. They simply will not ask.

I opposite Is true for me. I seek out those better then me.

 

[straightline]

They went that a way...

 

[SFC9ball]

I was talking to a guy on my league team the other day. He practices all the time and has played for a good number of years. He’s not old. In his 30’s. APA 5/6. He is under the impression that he will never get any better no matter how much he practices. He said in a sense he knows how to do it but can’t. I know people do get stuck at certain levels. Why is that? Always thought it was an effort issue rather than skill apex. Especially at that level of play.

Is it true that no matter how much some people practice they actually can’t get better no matter how much effort is put in? It seems wrong. I’m always under the impression you can always get better and the Sky is the limit as long as you put the effort in.

What I find most often with students is they don't know the difference between play and practice! First off their fundamentals are terrible, they don't have an Eye Pattern and they don't have a Pre-shot routine. When a student sees themselves on video for the first time it is an eye opening experience for them, then when you show them what an eye pattern is and how important it is and then you help them create a Pre-shot routine they are amazed by what they didn't know.

If you can check your ego in at the door and open your mind you can learn a lot! Randy G before every pool school he conducts tells everyone to "Check your ego in at the door and open your minds"

When your fundamentals are good and you know "What to Practice" "When to Practice" and "How to Practice" you can continue to get better in pool.

As you get better and you think you have reached your limit chances are you just need to pay closer attention to what you are doing and refine the things you are doing, its the small things that make the biggest improvements.

Change in mindset, attitude and a willingness to learn is all it takes.

 

[chefjeff]

(snip)

As you get better and you think you have reached your limit chances are you just need to pay closer attention to what you are doing and refine the things you are doing, its the small things that make the biggest improvements.

(snip)

I'm there right now. I'm looking for something new to learn so I stay interested in the game.

It's time to go attitude adjustment for me.


Jeff Livingston

 

[BlueRaider]

What I find most often with students is they don't know the difference between play and practice! First off their fundamentals are terrible, they don't have an Eye Pattern and they don't have a Pre-shot routine. When a student sees themselves on video for the first time it is an eye opening experience for them, then when you show them what an eye pattern is and how important it is and then you help them create a Pre-shot routine they are amazed by what they didn't know.

If you can check your ego in at the door and open your mind you can learn a lot! Randy G before every pool school he conducts tells everyone to "Check your ego in at the door and open your minds"

When your fundamentals are good and you know "What to Practice" "When to Practice" and "How to Practice" you can continue to get better in pool.

As you get better and you think you have reached your limit chances are you just need to pay closer attention to what you are doing and refine the things you are doing, its the small things that make the biggest improvements.

Change in mindset, attitude and a willingness to learn is all it takes.

The bold part is huge. There's always something to pay closer attention to. Sometimes it's not even something new you need to learn, but rather something you're aware of but need to re-prioritize and focus on even more intensely.

A big example of this is tip placement on the cue ball. When you're starting out, the cue ball looks like this amorphous mass. As you gain experience, the top, center, and bottom of it become more defined. As you improve further, you start to more easily see the difference between follow, stun-follow, stun, stun-draw, and draw, along with left and right spin. But there's even more nuance than that, and it really requires constant focus on seeing where your tip is aligned with the cue ball in your "set" position before you begin your backstroke. I'm realizing lately that I wasn't paying as close attention to that as I could have been, and laser focusing on it has improved my shot making, overall consistency, draw stroke, etc.

How many people out there don't actually know how to find and strike center ball consistently, including strong players? I believe Johnny Archer said that amateurs' biggest mistake was not paying close enough attention to their tip placement on the cue ball. I think a lot of players quickly a reach a "good enough" mentality with tip accuracy on the cue ball but they don't realize that the tiniest of tip placement errors are enough to cause misses and positional errors, especially on big tables with tight pockets.

 

[measureman]

Natural ability.
You see it in all sports and games.
Golf
Football
Baseball
Tennis and on and on.

 

[Tin Man]

Consider 'pro ghost'...

I generally play a hybrid version that only allows BIH after the break if I'm snookered.

Either way it places way more improtance on controling your break shot. Which is the most improtant shot in the game imo.

Another version I like is just playing until I have broke and ran a certain number of 10 ball racks (usually 5). If I come up dry, get hooked, or miss, I just re-rack. If I don't have time to commit to 5 I sometimes break 20 times and see how many I can run out.

Bottom line, it forces you to treat every break and every shot seriously. I love the ghost but it's easy to get a little sloppy. The ghost is about converting opportunities, but you need to work on generating those opportunities as well.