Stroke Shot

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DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I really believe this shot here is outstanding to help groove your stroke. Whether it be follow, stun, or draw. Especially draw. Thats the one i have the most trouble with. I think i am going to make this shot a routine part of my practice regimen.

What do you instructors think?

Mike



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The best stroke shot is the replacement shot --- not stop, follow or draw... based on the setup.

As Neil said, make the shot straight into the hole.
 
hi there,

i agree here also more with Neill-sry Dave my friend :p

I like to use this drill here as a kind of *confidence drill* for students- is it on burning in "just" pre-shot-routine, or is it while working on their straightness, stroke or gettin rid of some technical habits. But i prefer this distance here-and just with follow-shots.
For draw and stop shots i prefer similar but not the same :)

CueTable Help

 
Neil said:
Sorry Spidey, but I strongly disagree with that. I know Kinnister teaches that, but we differ there. He has a lot of great stuff out there, but this shot isn't one of them. The replacement shot is not going to come up much in an actual game. The stop shot comes up every single shot. The stop shot or stun shot determines what you need to do for position on the next ball. It's your starting point.

If you don't learn to stop the cb at all distances and speeds, you won't learn how to control the cb for any position shot accurately. Your subconscious picks up on what you practice, and duplicates it in a game. You don't want to train you mind to replace the ob because it just isn't practical over the long run. Once you know what to do for a stop shot, if position requires moving the cb forward a couple of inches, you automatically know that you just hit the cb a hair higher than for a stop shot. Or a hair lower if you want it to draw just a few inches.
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We weren't talking about game situations, just stroke. I'm not disagreeing with the importance of the stop shot. But, stop shots at any distance don't require a good stroke. I can stop the CB with it spinning like a top or dead in its track or anywhere in between. There's only one true replacement solution for any straight-in. It forces a true center axis hit. None of the others do---- that's why it's the best stroke builder.

That's why Bert is a true genius on Shot#1.
 
Neil said:
If you shoot a stop shot, and the cb stops dead, you hit it perfectly. No question about it. If the cb goes off to one side or the other, you were off accordingly. I just don't see where you think a stop shot doesn't require a good stroke???
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Neil, it's simple...

Shoot 100 stop shots and see how many you hit perfectly. Shoot 100 replacement shots and see how many you hit perfectly.

You'll soon see one is cake and the other isn't. You can shoot stop shots 1 handed --- so how would that help build a stroke? :)
 
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SpiderWebComm said:
Neil, it's simple...

Shoot 100 stop shots and see how many you hit perfectly. Shoot 100 replacement shots and see how many you hit perfectly.

You'll soon see one is cake and the other isn't. You can shoot stop shots 1 handed --- so how would that help build a stroke? :)
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I agree the stop shot is a zone about a diamond wide.. and once you can create that zone on demand .. the next step is to learn the edges of that zone 2 inch follow (replacement shot) and 2 inch draw

you don't own the slide zone until you can control the edges of the zone:thumbup:
 
softshot said:
You don't own the slide zone until you can control the edges of the zone. :thumbup:
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I wish you would have posted earlier -- it would have saved me some replies. Very astute way to put it. I can follow a high %, stop a high %, draw a high % --- replacement on DCP's post is a much, much lower %.

Learning to shoot it at a higher % is one of the very very best stroke builders. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say I've shot that shot way more than 10000 times.

Like I mentioned earlier, I'm NOT devaluing the importance of stop shots or following/drawing the CB into pockets on straight shots. Those are what you use during games, for sure. However, nothing "develops" the stroke like the replacement.

I know Bert is prob considered a controversial instructor and can get a little kooky at times. However, his shot #1 is the Real Deal Holyfield when it comes to stroke development. When he said, "You can't continue unless you can do this"---- he's 100% right when it comes to REALLY progressing with your game. Students are well served to not waste their time with meaningless stuff until they have a stroke.
 
Ok, so, i guess i should practice my original shot four different ways then instead of three. Those four are:
1) follow
2) stun
3) replacement
4) draw

I still think the draw shot has more value to me. when i say draw i mean draw it back almost to the end of the table. You have to put a little extra oomph in your stroke to do that, and thats usually where i lose it.

DCP
 
Neil said:
I don't think you practice it the same way I do. When I practice stop shots, that cb has to stop DEAD. NO movement at all. You can only do that on a dead on hit. The replacement shot teaches you where the end zone of the sliding cb is. That is all. You can't even really tell if you were off-center a hair, because the cb is still moving after contact. You can tell if you were very close, but hard to tell if you were dead on.

And, as I previously mentioned, it trains your mind for the wrong thing. Practice should be developed around actual game situations when controlling the cb, IMHO.
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This could be a good game... almost like shooting pig in basketball.

Stop shot = 1 point
Follow into the pocket = 3 points
Draw into pocket / Replacement (base of CB within area of OB) = 5 points
True replacement (based on a hole protector) = 10 points

Race to 100 points or something.

There, I just invented a new fun way to practice. Maybe use a backgammon cube during play if gambling is involved.
edit: Points only apply on a 9'er
 
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DrCue'sProtege said:
Ok, so, i guess i should practice my original shot four different ways then instead of three. Those four are:
1) follow
2) stun
3) replacement
4) draw

I still think the draw shot has more value to me. when i say draw i mean draw it back almost to the end of the table. You have to put a little extra oomph in your stroke to do that, and thats usually where i lose it.

DCP
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There's no value in drawing to the end of the table unless you're trying to pocket it in the corner you're shooting from. Otherwise, you're randomly whacking it.
 
Well guys I'm going to step in here and give my opinion.

Everything talked about here is a drill to TEST your stroke not to develop a stroke.

The stop, skid, slide or replacement is a test of your stroke and knowledge of Angle, Speed & Spin.

There are quite a few drills available to develop your stroke but none of the above.
randyg
 
Randy,
i might - Might - MIGHT - be headed to the Dallas area next saturday, July 30th. If so i will be in Dallas on that Monday, 1 August.

Mike
 
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