Strong opinion: Dress Codes Needed

[CocoboloCowboy]

Pool players bitch about money being poor in pool.

But when simple idea of cleaning up the sport, having one Pool organization over all US Pool like other sports, or making players not look like homeless trash pickers.

They also complain.

Pool is never going to be as big as it was, Willie Mosconi said in Willies World.

Pool has been going down hill since his birth year, 1913.

 

[MattPoland]

Yet another example of the suggestion of a dress code for pros/major events being taken to extremes to justify the stance for those without a leg to stand on.

It’s not taken to extremes. This whole thread started with the example of Dennis Orcollo wearing a hat on a livestream of an action match and as opposed to dressing like he was in the World Pool Masters. That fits exactly what I said. No exaggeration of extremes at all.

 

[logical]

You say that, but we can't get people to merely agree that a clean shirt is appropriate...lol

Yes, my point was that the availability of multiple footwear solutions is already solved. There is nobreason for anyone to ever wear slippery smooth leather sole shoes. I have plenty of dress shoes with traditional smooth leather soles but also similar looking ones with cushioned, slip (and weather) resistant soles that I wear if traveling to countries were a lot of walking is involved, I'm in a manufacturing plant for hours standing on concrete or know I'll be walking thru snow.

Honestly, if shoes was the only issue here I wouldn't even be in this thread. It's barely even an issue on TV or video stream.


Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[ShootingArts]

I have a pair of traditional dress shoes and they work fine. They can be a little slick but I haven't slipped yet while doing masse shots or anything like that.

It is a combination of things that cause the slips. Being upright for a jump or masse set shot is unlikely to be a problem. When you are stretching for a shot with very little weight on your feet and you are dealing with a linoleum or very smooth concrete floor and very high humidity or water from
wet ground outside being tracked into the play area all of the time, these are the conditions when these slips occur. It happens occasionally with any soles but the conditions I am mentioning here and those dress soles add up to the perfect storm.

It sounds funny but with no protection it is similar to a low blow in boxing with a cup. It hurts a lot and can take your breath away. However, I agree with everyone saying this just means a little thought about shoes is required. We should be able to look like professionals in pro events. It's a simple concept, if there is a crowd or cameras present, look and act like a professional.

Hu

 

[The_JV]

It’s not taken to extremes. This whole thread started with the example of Dennis Orcollo wearing a hat on a livestream of an action match and as opposed to dressing like he was in the World Pool Masters. That fits exactly what I said. No exaggeration of extremes at all.

There you go again... sculpting the narrative to suit your position.

The thread started as a general comment about professionals looking like professionals, and the attire worn by Dennis in his challenge match against SVB was an example. The specifics were "looks like a goofball kid with a hat on sideways, in joggers and an ill-fitting, untucked shirt". Not just a sideways hat, a whole outfit. There's a difference... ...and yes, he looked like a goofball kid. My apologies if that's your personal choice of attire when you go to work.

You then ramble on and on, claiming that:

• Everyone should be wearing slacks and a polo just to play pool?
• But to start expecting everyone everywhere to conform to a universal standard is kind of stodgy.
• I don’t think we need everyone wearing vests or tuxedos

....and eventually you get to the post I quoted wherein you grouped "hooligans in wife beaters" who are just starting out in the game, with the scope of professionals that some don't feel conduct themselves as such.

Yes the bullet points are direct quotes. I had to move around the wording from the 'hooligans' post for it to make sense in my sentence structure.

The only stating "everyone" are you and some that are on the same side of the discussion. To be clear expecting "everyone" to adhere to a dress code to play pool is extreme.

 

[easy-e]

I don't think it should be left up to the players and maybe that's the status quo and part of the problem. Streamers and event organizers have to set the standard and a minimum dress code should be required to play. Most all the larger events and the well organized regional events have dress codes. For the most part, I'd say the independent streamers do not have very high standards for the product they are producing and the lack of professionalism has a much longer reach than player dress codes. The best head to head streaming I've seen to date was TAR. Professional production, commentary and the players dressed and acted (for the most part) in a professional manner. It's a shame they're no longer in production.

So wouldn't the players just leave out the streamers? Dennis and SVB can play for 100k without a streamer. If they start imposing a dress code, what's stopping the players from saying "No thanks."?

 

[easy-e]

Isn't this kind of a catch 22? The players making the money want to dress their way until they KNOW there's more money in dressing better, and the "potential money" wants to see the players dress better before they invest. I love it!

 

[rexus31]

So wouldn't the players just leave out the streamers? Dennis and SVB can play for 100k without a streamer. If they start imposing a dress code, what's stopping the players from saying "No thanks."?

Who do you think helps coordinate the matches? Promoters/streamers. Plus, if it's a paid stream, the players get a cut of the PPV. I'm sure there are other rules involved that carry a "follow them or don't play" clause. Why not professional attire?

 

[rexus31]

Isn't this kind of a catch 22? The players making the money want to dress their way until they KNOW there's more money in dressing better, and the "potential money" wants to see the players dress better before they invest. I love it!

Dress for the job you want, not the job you have.

 

[easy-e]

Who do you think helps coordinate the matches? Promoters/streamers. Plus, if it's a paid stream, the players get a cut of the PPV. I'm sure there are other rules involved that carry a "follow them or don't play" clause. Why not professional attire?

I'm in favor of professional attire. I also know that they are the talent.

 

[easy-e]

Dress for the job you want, not the job you have.

Thank you for your insight.

 

[rexus31]

I'm in favor of professional attire. I also know that they are the talent.

They also want to make money and there's more money in it with more eyes viewing. Let's say a PPV is $25 for a 3 day challenge match. For a big name event such as Dennis/Shane, I would estimate 1K-3K paying customers. That's $25K-$75K in revenue that the players get a cut of so the loser still walks away with something. I don't think asking them to dress the part of a pro is an egregious request.

 

[easy-e]

They also want to make money and there's more money in it with more eyes viewing. Let's say a PPV is $25 for a 3 day challenge match. For a big name event such as Dennis/Shane, I would estimate 1K-3K paying customers. That's $25K-$75K in revenue that the players get a cut of so the loser still walks away with something.

My earlier point was that you need to try to convince THEM! They don't believe it, why should we?

 

[rexus31]

My earlier point was that you need to try to convince THEM! They don't believe it, why should we?

Convince them of what? "$50K challenge match and 10% of the PPV but you have to wear slacks and a pool, no hats." Will a top tier pro pass that up? It's not like they've got tons of options.

Are you trolling?

 

[rexus31]

There are local amateur events that state the same dress code that aren't streamed and there are usually waiting lists. I don't think it's out of line to require professionals playing for a decent chunk of change on a worldwide broadcast to look the part.

 

[easy-e]

Convince them of what? "$50K challenge match and 10% of the PPV but you have to wear slacks and a pool, no hats." Will a top tier pro pass that up? It's not like they've got tons of options.

Are you trolling?

Why is that a trolling question? No one who matters cares what they wear. If they did care, they'd make them wear it. These guys will have streamers lined up to broadcast anything they wan to do. Until the streaming dries up, they have zero reason to change.

*Edited to add "who matters"

 

[MattPoland]

There you go again... sculpting the narrative to suit your position.

The thread started as a general comment about professionals looking like professionals, and the attire worn by Dennis in his challenge match against SVB was an example. The specifics were "looks like a goofball kid with a hat on sideways, in joggers and an ill-fitting, untucked shirt". Not just a sideways hat, a whole outfit. There's a difference... ...and yes, he looked like a goofball kid. My apologies if that's your personal choice of attire when you go to work.

You then ramble on and on, claiming that:

• Everyone should be wearing slacks and a polo just to play pool?
• But to start expecting everyone everywhere to conform to a universal standard is kind of stodgy.
• I don’t think we need everyone wearing vests or tuxedos

....and eventually you get to the post I quoted wherein you grouped "hooligans in wife beaters" who are just starting out in the game, with the scope of professionals that some don't feel conduct themselves as such.

Yes the bullet points are direct quotes. I had to move around the wording from the 'hooligans' post for it to make sense in my sentence structure.

The only stating "everyone" are you and some that are on the same side of the discussion. To be clear expecting "everyone" to adhere to a dress code to play pool is extreme.

To start, you're really working hard to frame the conversation just to positions you're holding. I'm struggling to see why you find that necessary. This is a fairly broad topic with a lot of contributors. The two guys in wifebeaters arguing over a rack was an image brought up prior to my posts, I was reacting to that.

Regarding expecting people in a broad amount of settings to uphold a more business-friendly dress code, that door's been opened in this conversation. You can't fault the conversation for walking through it. Even you were reminiscing fondly of the times you'd be expected to wear a shirt and tie just to play in a large open tournament on a Sunday. So it's not that far off that parts of the conversation is veering in that direction.

But specifically to Dennis, it was an action match on a low rate backwoods stream, RackemTV. It was the same stream BIlly and Sky were shitfaced on and couldn't string together a full sentence. Again, this isn't the World Pool Masters by Matchroom. He came into it dressed to match the image of a road gambler with street cred. Which pretty much exactly what he is. His ill fitting untucked shirt had his name written on the back in shiny letters.

Meanwhile you do a google image search of Dennis, that's not the predominant image you're going to find. You'll be littered with pages upon pages of him in polos and vests looking sharp. So ultimately in the topic of "Strong Opinion: Dress Codes Needed", I'm taking the stance that there's not a problem needing to be solved here.

 

[KissedOut]

Why is that a trolling question? No one who matters cares what they wear. If they did care, they'd make them wear it. These guys will have streamers lined up to broadcast anything they wan to do. Until the streaming dries up, they have zero reason to change.

*Edited to add "who matters"

If all they are interested in are one-off streaming gigs, they are assuring that's all they'll get. But if growing the game to the point of having real, i.e., network exposure and non-pool sponsors, growth in professional pool, the people who matter do care. And they show it by their complete absence.

You guys might not like it but for the most part successful professional sports markets are fueled by the attention of the casual ill-informed fans. But if you are content to have the professional pool world limited to hard-core people who play the game themselves, then the current course of lowest common denominator of laissez faire streaming will achieve that goal. In which case all the whining about how little professional pool players make should cease.

Skip to 1:28

Pool needs a coach Boone.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Why is that a trolling question? No one who matters cares what they wear. If they did care, they'd make them wear it. These guys will have streamers lined up to broadcast anything they wan to do. Until the streaming dries up, they have zero reason to change.

*Edited to add "who matters"

Well until Pool player change Thor mindset to look like pro athletes.

Pool will never attract mainstream corporate sponsors.

Those are the people with deep pockets. They sponsor PGA, Ladies PGA, NFL, MLB, NASCAR, NHRA, etc.

Those people make decent money because of corporate deep pockets, and fat check books.

 

[rexus31]

...it was an action match on a low rate backwoods stream, RackemTV. It was the same stream BIlly and Sky were shitfaced on and couldn't string together a full sentence. Again, this isn't the World Pool Masters by Matchroom. He came into it dressed to match the image of a road gambler with street cred. Which pretty much exactly what he is. His ill fitting untucked shirt had his name written on the back in shiny letters.

The problem of unprofessional distribution is problem unto itself.

Let me ask you this. Say you are a professional sales rep and regularly dress in slacks and a company polo. You represent yourself and your company daily in a professional manner. One of the customers you call on wears shorts, a t shirt and flip flops to your meetings. Would you lower your and your company's standards because your customer has lower expectations of proper attire for a business meeting?

Regardless of the image of the streamer, a pro should be a pro and look the part. Rationalizing it because the streamer is backwoods and allows drunks to commentate is a weak argument.